Spelljammer as a non-D&D d20 Setting - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Spelljammer as a non-D&D d20 Setting

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Dragonhelm
Sep 05, 2003 11:15:05 Let's say that you were given the chance to write up Spelljammer from scratch. You were told by your editors that it had to be d20, but you couldn't use the specific D&D rules. How would you go about it?

Would you create a new system, ala Wheel of Time? Or would you perhaps use d20 Modern?

I've been toying with the idea of making Spelljammer a bit more "true to form" (subjective term, to say the least). Yes, D&D rules can be used for SJ, but what if we went another route?

Let's say, for example, that we developed an entirely new set of classes, or advanced classes if we're using d20 Modern. What would we create?

I could definitely see some sort of space mariner. Also, a mage of some sort is a must. Perhaps some sort of explorer, or soldier as well.

Also, what about magic? Would it still be arcane and divine, or would we have maybe one unified form of magic?

Anyway, this is your chance to let your creative juices run wild. What do you think, guys? Is SJ best suited for D&D, or would it work for another d20 system as well?
#2
nightdruid
Sep 05, 2003 17:29:55 Hmmm, well, obviously I'd go with a swashbuckling-style game. Some variant classes might be:

Marine - replacement for the fighter. Big strong guys with lots of swords.

Sailor - a generic sailhand.

Officer - nobles, highly skilled & trained. Probably the best fighters on a ship.

Tinker - creates all kinds of cool gizmos.

Sorcerer - have all sorts of weird, innate powers that allow them to move ships and do other cool stuff.

Priest - more of a crusader than a mobile first aid unit, modeled more on the missionaries in early colonial times.

That's all I can come up with on the fly.
#3
zombiegleemax
Sep 06, 2003 2:59:01 I have thought about that a bit over the last 15 years (about it as a setting). And I was working with others in creating a campaign setting called "Moons of Chimera". Each moon was small enough that each civilation on them would know thier world was small (they already sailed around it) and would easily see other moons and see some details with powerful telescopes cities and distinct farmlands. Each moon was motivated into space to see the other civilization on the other moons.

The reason for three (besides that chimera's have three heads) was too allow me and two other gamemasters to have are unique worlds and set in motion adventurers to cross from one world to another. This all before spelljammer even came out as a setting.

The Gas Giant is the 'Planet Chimera'.

As far as new core classes, well I for one have avoided it (i would not forsake the current ones). But if a few new classes were needed one would be the 'salior' and 'explorer' would be good ideas. Prestige class would be desirable to help give setting flavor [I have created a few for my world... 'Star Lord', Azure Phoenix' and 'Celestial Master' to name a few).

I think thier are enough races already that new ones are not really needed, if anything I would simply leave a few out that have a replacement already in one of the Monster Manuals (example would be to replace Insectares with Abeil, and to replace Space Giants with ... some of the current giants that already in the game). I would go back to 'Star Frontiers' and hijack the Dralasite, Osakar and Vrusk [yep use that name instead of Rastipede] to help give the setting some more Alien 'feel'. Way tooooo many funny looking human races in game aready. About the only race that long to have in a WotC book is the Giff and possibly the Scro (only can they find a better name then Orcs spelled backwards?). Races(/monsters) I would just not want to see (my opinion only) Dracons, Xixchils, Dohwar, Hurwaet, Hadozee to name a few. Races that if done right could be really alot of fun (need better pics) would be the Syllix/Sathar.

I would create about 40 new monsters to help 'cement' the setting somehow. Many of the critters in 2E spelljammer where more of a throw together ... some comical, some too weird and some nobody really liked (if someone really liked all the critters that was released with the spelljammer setting, why are not ALL the creatures found on the net by now?). I know of a few critters that I not like and never plan on making conversions for them.

The essential ingrediant to any spelljammer like setting is Swashbuckling with crew swinging on to one anothers ships. Also needed is some good Ship to Ship combat rules (I have been reworking my ship to ship combat system ... again... the new version not on my website yet).

In my spelljamming campaign the toughest part is getting low level character to get thier very expensive helms for thier own ship someday. Magical cost of spelljamming is positively high in gold piece cost. Now if the 'Star' sent out waves of 'mystical wind' with only magical sails (that catch such a wind, not create motive power) need to push the ship along and ships have built into the hull 'null' metal that naturally hovers in the air (ie it is mined not enchanted by spell). That would help keep cost of the ship down a bit (of course the metal would be very expensive... unless it was fairly common place). This null metal would be very brittle and would have to encase into other metal tubes and placed along the keel.

Ships if they move toward the 'Primary' would have to tack to get to the inner planets. Solor systems would be alot closer to one another so that ships can sail to those systems without the need of the phlogiston.

Just my two cents.
#4
Dragonhelm
Sep 06, 2003 8:31:32 Yeah, I wouldn't add any new races either, of if I did, only one or two. The Star Frontiers race idea is a good one.

On the issue of classes, I'm torn. On the one hand, SJ began as a D&D world, and it would be good to incorporate D&D where possible. On the other hand, I have a hard time visioning why a druid would go into space. Adam, that's more of your territory. ;)

I've often been asking myself lately what the Spelljammer "feel" is. In a setting where anything and everything is possible, that's hard to nail down.

I think SJ is part swashbuckling adventures, and I think it has a certain sci-fi element to it in regards to space travel and all the wonders you can see in space. That's what I consider the core of the setting.

So, with that in mind, how do you work the rules to represent the setting? Does D&D represent SJ anymore? Or do we need something like d20 Modern or the upcoming d20 Future? Or something else entirely?
#5
zombiegleemax
Sep 06, 2003 10:43:59 d20 Modern Spelljammer could be cool, but Spelljammer is Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction, in a loose sense of the term.
#6
Dragonhelm
Sep 06, 2003 13:57:23
Originally posted by Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM
d20 Modern Spelljammer could be cool, but Spelljammer is Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction, in a loose sense of the term.

Actually, Space Fantasy. No science to it. When I mentioned sci-fi earlier, I was referring more to that space element.
#7
nightdruid
Sep 06, 2003 15:25:49 Races I'd use:

Humans - obviously.

Elves - I think I'd drop almost all subraces, and just have one elven race. The best model for them I can come up with are the Silvanesti from DL. They'd be entirely a space race, living in "forests" of space trees.

Dwarves - another race living entirely in space, except they've claimed the asteroids. Just have dwarves and that's it.

Gnomes - tinker gnomes, of course :D

Halflings - no idea what to do with them.

Illithids - big, bad evil guys lurking at the edge of space.

Beholders - not sure on these guys.

Neogi - just like the illithids, big bad evil guys at the edge of space.

Hadozee - cool guys to use, though I'd lessen their ties to the elves.

Dracons - very cool guys, a new arrival trying to find their place in the universe.

Goblinkin - savages, pirates, and slavers. General grunt bad guys.

Not sure about the rest, probably drop some, add some, etc.
#8
zombiegleemax
Sep 07, 2003 5:18:26 In my campaign the winner of the what the players like best for the ape/monkey like races is the grommon by far. Seems some of my players not like to deal with 'gliding membrane'... then again I/they not like the Yazirians either (they the SF version of Hadozee).

As for other races and reason I would choose to ignore them are the following:

Dohwar: This race has no natural hands and just can not run. Now if they had a natural form of mage hand, but this still would not allow for spellcasting or weilding weapons other then silly wegga. They are best served as Dragon Chow.

Dracons: This race just not seem well suited to space, why are they even trying? They would seem happiest if one does include them into a spelljamming D20/3.5 as a race that is found on a few planets and when found in space it is mostly to move to another sphere/planet in search for good living spaces. (not one player has ever chosen to play this race in my campaign).

Xixchils: This race is just toooo weird for me, trying to make conversions for them has given me headaches as to trying to balance thier ability to modify people. If one wants to play insect try Thri-kreen or Rastipede(Vrusk).

Hurwaet: Hmmm a reptile race that amazingly enougth has the ability to create/freshen air. With such races as Yuan-ti and Lizard Folk (I still trying to figure out what was wrong with 'Lizardman' for a name), it not seem to have a need to add one more lizard like race.

Hadozee: With one too many ape/monkey like races created for Star Frontiers/Spelljammer, figure I let this one go cause my players seemed to like the Grommon much better.

As for creating D20 modern classes/Future D20... well lets say I just not want to deal with another set of core classes. The core classes are good enough it seems to me. I just really disliked Monte Cooks lattest effort where he created an Alternate Players Handbook. Thier are peaple out there (like me) that not see alot of need for NEW CORE classes. I rather see better Prestige Classes. Figure the Expert would be good for sailors, Ranger would be ok for Explorers, and Warriors would be good for marines. But I still see a need for Merchant (more for rules to govern merchandizing and other endevors), such a class would also give those with Merchant class an edge with finding merchanise and sell of merchanise. If not a merchant class at least a merchant Feat.

As for pirates of Gith, it just easier to say they are either Githzarie or Githyankie... no need to add another Gith race... before we know it they be like Elves... one for each hieght and color. LOL

Some more ships that are between the size of the Ogre Mammoth and Whale ship... Most ships are fair medium in size and just seems a few more large one would be out there. The reason I say this that with a larger ship one can carry more goods per helm... (just stop and think about profit and cost of a helm).

Well till I can think of some more to say.
Good night
#9
Dragonhelm
Sep 07, 2003 8:28:10
Originally posted by Danastes
Dohwar: This race has no natural hands and just can not run. Now if they had a natural form of mage hand, but this still would not allow for spellcasting or weilding weapons other then silly wegga. They are best served as Dragon Chow.

Lol!

Xixchils: This race is just toooo weird for me, trying to make conversions for them has given me headaches as to trying to balance thier ability to modify people. If one wants to play insect try Thri-kreen or Rastipede(Vrusk).[/b]

I like the Xixchil surgery ability a lot. I could see that being represented either as a feat, or as a Xixchil Surgeon prestige class. Question is, how playable is such a character?

Personally, I'm a big fan of Thri-kreen, and they're my insect of choice.

Did I just say that? :D

Hurwaet: Hmmm a reptile race that amazingly enougth has the ability to create/freshen air. With such races as Yuan-ti and Lizard Folk (I still trying to figure out what was wrong with 'Lizardman' for a name), it not seem to have a need to add one more lizard like race.

In Dragonlance, lizard men are known as bakali.

As for creating D20 modern classes/Future D20... well lets say I just not want to deal with another set of core classes. The core classes are good enough it seems to me.

While the d20 Modern idea has its merits and is an interesting debate in design...I think I have to agree that PHB classes are the best way to go. Now maybe a base space mariner class would be good, or maybe the prestige classes (including Stellar Corsair) from Spider Moon would be good.

I just really disliked Monte Cooks lattest effort where he created an Alternate Players Handbook. Thier are peaple out there (like me) that not see alot of need for NEW CORE classes. I rather see better Prestige Classes.

Arcana Unearthed was an interesting experiment. It succeeded in some ways, not so much in others. Some of his new core classes come across as PHB class "clones". Greenbond sounds like a druid, magister sounds like a wizard, warmain sounds like a fighter, and unfettered just sounds...goofy. Sorry, can't get past the name. lol

The mage blade is sorta neat, but the one that really catches my attention is the Totem Warrior. Excellent and ingenious class. Beyond that, his spell templates are rather good.

I wonder how AU races would work in SJ. Hrm...

Figure the Expert would be good for sailors, Ranger would be ok for Explorers, and Warriors would be good for marines. But I still see a need for Merchant (more for rules to govern merchandizing and other endevors), such a class would also give those with Merchant class an edge with finding merchanise and sell of merchanise. If not a merchant class at least a merchant Feat.

You could use a rogue for that, I would think. Not quite right, though.

As for pirates of Gith, it just easier to say they are either Githzarie or Githyankie... no need to add another Gith race... before we know it they be like Elves... one for each hieght and color. LOL

A gith for all seasons!

Great, that's as bad as the giff puns... ;)

I dunno. I like classic SJ, but I think it would have to go through some redefinition to make it as a d20 setting.
#10
zombiegleemax
Sep 07, 2003 9:22:09 I think D&D would be better, from the general ideas behind Spelljammer, but on OGL game would be the next best thing, D20 modern though just seems wrong for the setting....
#11
zombiegleemax
Sep 08, 2003 10:30:14 After play testing D20 spelljammer me and my players have made some changes to the rules present both from the Polyhedron and my homebrews.

Crew Quality
0 to 3 ranks in Profession (spacehand) Untrained/Green
4 to 7 ranks in Profession (spacehand) Skilled
8 or more ranks in Profession (spacehand) Expert/Crack Crew

Untrained crew give a -4 to ships weapons and pilot checks, Skilled give neither bonus or penalty to Pilot or Ship Weapons, and Expert/Crack crews give a +2 synergy bonus to ship weapons and pilot checks.

Prestige Classes
Not one player has taken or even considered 'Master Scavenger' and All have stated that 'Planetary Explorer' is way to weak of a class to want to use, and the Storykeeper seemed just at home on some planet as it was in space, more like they placed it in the polyhedron as the class would not otherwise see print else where (or it seems to me).

The two classes that players have eyed and taken are Stellar Corsair and Spelljammer Ace. I have so far created the Stellar Corsair into Epic Progression

Feats
Spelljammer Specializtion feat was noted by one of my players as too weak, after all he could just as well get 'Skill Focus (pilot)' and get a +3 bonus to his pilot skill for all ships (instead of a +4 bonus to just one ship). He felt that the feat should either be dropped or increase the bonus to a +10.
Ballista Master (and other such feats) should have a BAB requirement... after all a human could have both Ballista Master and Ballista Specialist at 1st level and have an awesome to hit with no experience what so ever. I have changed the requirements for Ballista Master to +8 BAB and Profession (spacehand) 4 ranks.

Hadozee - cool guys to use, though I'd lessen their ties to the elves.

I have already done this for my campaign. No Yazirian would be be subserviant race.
#12
wyvern76
Sep 09, 2003 22:20:55
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
I think SJ is part swashbuckling adventures, and I think it has a certain sci-fi element to it in regards to space travel and all the wonders you can see in space. That's what I consider the core of the setting.

So, with that in mind, how do you work the rules to represent the setting? Does D&D represent SJ anymore? Or do we need something like d20 Modern or the upcoming d20 Future? Or something else entirely?

Your use of the phrase "swashbuckling adventures" made me think of the book of the same name from AEG. I haven't looked at it myself, but the classes seem like they would be well suited for what you want (at least in concept). Perhaps someone here has read it and would like to comment? The classes from Fading Suns are another possibility (and I'd be inclined to turn to Fading Suns for races myself).

Personally, though, I don't see any strong reason not to use the D&D core classes. Using d20 Modern just seems like it would be really weird. As far as druids are concerned, they could easily be motivated by the desire to explore new planets (and prevent them from being exploited). For merchants, I think the best solution is to use the Expert class with maxed-out ranks in Profession (merchant) and create some specialized feats for haggling and so on. And for xixchil surgery, I'd modify the rules for spellware from Dragonstar.

Wyvern
#13
Dragonhelm
Sep 10, 2003 9:40:23
Originally posted by Wyvern76
Your use of the phrase "swashbuckling adventures" made me think of the book of the same name from AEG. I haven't looked at it myself, but the classes seem like they would be well suited for what you want (at least in concept).

I'm thinking of picking it up, when money permits. I was thinking the other day that it might be good for SJ, but I haven't had a good look yet.
#14
jeleinen
Sep 12, 2003 9:39:12 I'm actually planning on using the Mutants and Masterminds version of D20 for my Spelljammer campaign. It's classless nature and more freeform approach to the system in general suits my needs much better than any other version of the system, but still allows me to mine other D20 sources for ideas with minimal adaptation.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dragonhelm Sep 05, 2003 11:15:05	Let's say that you were given the chance to write up Spelljammer from scratch. You were told by your editors that it had to be d20, but you couldn't use the specific D&D rules. How would you go about it? Would you create a new system, ala Wheel of Time? Or would you perhaps use d20 Modern? I've been toying with the idea of making Spelljammer a bit more "true to form" (subjective term, to say the least). Yes, D&D rules can be used for SJ, but what if we went another route? Let's say, for example, that we developed an entirely new set of classes, or advanced classes if we're using d20 Modern. What would we create? I could definitely see some sort of space mariner. Also, a mage of some sort is a must. Perhaps some sort of explorer, or soldier as well. Also, what about magic? Would it still be arcane and divine, or would we have maybe one unified form of magic? Anyway, this is your chance to let your creative juices run wild. What do you think, guys? Is SJ best suited for D&D, or would it work for another d20 system as well?
#2 nightdruid Sep 05, 2003 17:29:55	Hmmm, well, obviously I'd go with a swashbuckling-style game. Some variant classes might be: Marine - replacement for the fighter. Big strong guys with lots of swords. Sailor - a generic sailhand. Officer - nobles, highly skilled & trained. Probably the best fighters on a ship. Tinker - creates all kinds of cool gizmos. Sorcerer - have all sorts of weird, innate powers that allow them to move ships and do other cool stuff. Priest - more of a crusader than a mobile first aid unit, modeled more on the missionaries in early colonial times. That's all I can come up with on the fly.
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 2:59:01	I have thought about that a bit over the last 15 years (about it as a setting). And I was working with others in creating a campaign setting called "Moons of Chimera". Each moon was small enough that each civilation on them would know thier world was small (they already sailed around it) and would easily see other moons and see some details with powerful telescopes cities and distinct farmlands. Each moon was motivated into space to see the other civilization on the other moons. The reason for three (besides that chimera's have three heads) was too allow me and two other gamemasters to have are unique worlds and set in motion adventurers to cross from one world to another. This all before spelljammer even came out as a setting. The Gas Giant is the 'Planet Chimera'. As far as new core classes, well I for one have avoided it (i would not forsake the current ones). But if a few new classes were needed one would be the 'salior' and 'explorer' would be good ideas. Prestige class would be desirable to help give setting flavor [I have created a few for my world... 'Star Lord', Azure Phoenix' and 'Celestial Master' to name a few). I think thier are enough races already that new ones are not really needed, if anything I would simply leave a few out that have a replacement already in one of the Monster Manuals (example would be to replace Insectares with Abeil, and to replace Space Giants with ... some of the current giants that already in the game). I would go back to 'Star Frontiers' and hijack the Dralasite, Osakar and Vrusk [yep use that name instead of Rastipede] to help give the setting some more Alien 'feel'. Way tooooo many funny looking human races in game aready. About the only race that long to have in a WotC book is the Giff and possibly the Scro (only can they find a better name then Orcs spelled backwards?). Races(/monsters) I would just not want to see (my opinion only) Dracons, Xixchils, Dohwar, Hurwaet, Hadozee to name a few. Races that if done right could be really alot of fun (need better pics) would be the Syllix/Sathar. I would create about 40 new monsters to help 'cement' the setting somehow. Many of the critters in 2E spelljammer where more of a throw together ... some comical, some too weird and some nobody really liked (if someone really liked all the critters that was released with the spelljammer setting, why are not ALL the creatures found on the net by now?). I know of a few critters that I not like and never plan on making conversions for them. The essential ingrediant to any spelljammer like setting is Swashbuckling with crew swinging on to one anothers ships. Also needed is some good Ship to Ship combat rules (I have been reworking my ship to ship combat system ... again... the new version not on my website yet). In my spelljamming campaign the toughest part is getting low level character to get thier very expensive helms for thier own ship someday. Magical cost of spelljamming is positively high in gold piece cost. Now if the 'Star' sent out waves of 'mystical wind' with only magical sails (that catch such a wind, not create motive power) need to push the ship along and ships have built into the hull 'null' metal that naturally hovers in the air (ie it is mined not enchanted by spell). That would help keep cost of the ship down a bit (of course the metal would be very expensive... unless it was fairly common place). This null metal would be very brittle and would have to encase into other metal tubes and placed along the keel. Ships if they move toward the 'Primary' would have to tack to get to the inner planets. Solor systems would be alot closer to one another so that ships can sail to those systems without the need of the phlogiston. Just my two cents.
#4 Dragonhelm Sep 06, 2003 8:31:32	Yeah, I wouldn't add any new races either, of if I did, only one or two. The Star Frontiers race idea is a good one. On the issue of classes, I'm torn. On the one hand, SJ began as a D&D world, and it would be good to incorporate D&D where possible. On the other hand, I have a hard time visioning why a druid would go into space. Adam, that's more of your territory. ;) I've often been asking myself lately what the Spelljammer "feel" is. In a setting where anything and everything is possible, that's hard to nail down. I think SJ is part swashbuckling adventures, and I think it has a certain sci-fi element to it in regards to space travel and all the wonders you can see in space. That's what I consider the core of the setting. So, with that in mind, how do you work the rules to represent the setting? Does D&D represent SJ anymore? Or do we need something like d20 Modern or the upcoming d20 Future? Or something else entirely?
#5 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 10:43:59	d20 Modern Spelljammer could be cool, but Spelljammer is Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction, in a loose sense of the term.
#6 Dragonhelm Sep 06, 2003 13:57:23	Originally posted by Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM d20 Modern Spelljammer could be cool, but Spelljammer is Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction, in a loose sense of the term. Actually, Space Fantasy. No science to it. When I mentioned sci-fi earlier, I was referring more to that space element.
#7 nightdruid Sep 06, 2003 15:25:49	Races I'd use: Humans - obviously. Elves - I think I'd drop almost all subraces, and just have one elven race. The best model for them I can come up with are the Silvanesti from DL. They'd be entirely a space race, living in "forests" of space trees. Dwarves - another race living entirely in space, except they've claimed the asteroids. Just have dwarves and that's it. Gnomes - tinker gnomes, of course :D Halflings - no idea what to do with them. Illithids - big, bad evil guys lurking at the edge of space. Beholders - not sure on these guys. Neogi - just like the illithids, big bad evil guys at the edge of space. Hadozee - cool guys to use, though I'd lessen their ties to the elves. Dracons - very cool guys, a new arrival trying to find their place in the universe. Goblinkin - savages, pirates, and slavers. General grunt bad guys. Not sure about the rest, probably drop some, add some, etc.
#8 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2003 5:18:26	In my campaign the winner of the what the players like best for the ape/monkey like races is the grommon by far. Seems some of my players not like to deal with 'gliding membrane'... then again I/they not like the Yazirians either (they the SF version of Hadozee). As for other races and reason I would choose to ignore them are the following: Dohwar: This race has no natural hands and just can not run. Now if they had a natural form of mage hand, but this still would not allow for spellcasting or weilding weapons other then silly wegga. They are best served as Dragon Chow. Dracons: This race just not seem well suited to space, why are they even trying? They would seem happiest if one does include them into a spelljamming D20/3.5 as a race that is found on a few planets and when found in space it is mostly to move to another sphere/planet in search for good living spaces. (not one player has ever chosen to play this race in my campaign). Xixchils: This race is just toooo weird for me, trying to make conversions for them has given me headaches as to trying to balance thier ability to modify people. If one wants to play insect try Thri-kreen or Rastipede(Vrusk). Hurwaet: Hmmm a reptile race that amazingly enougth has the ability to create/freshen air. With such races as Yuan-ti and Lizard Folk (I still trying to figure out what was wrong with 'Lizardman' for a name), it not seem to have a need to add one more lizard like race. Hadozee: With one too many ape/monkey like races created for Star Frontiers/Spelljammer, figure I let this one go cause my players seemed to like the Grommon much better. As for creating D20 modern classes/Future D20... well lets say I just not want to deal with another set of core classes. The core classes are good enough it seems to me. I just really disliked Monte Cooks lattest effort where he created an Alternate Players Handbook. Thier are peaple out there (like me) that not see alot of need for NEW CORE classes. I rather see better Prestige Classes. Figure the Expert would be good for sailors, Ranger would be ok for Explorers, and Warriors would be good for marines. But I still see a need for Merchant (more for rules to govern merchandizing and other endevors), such a class would also give those with Merchant class an edge with finding merchanise and sell of merchanise. If not a merchant class at least a merchant Feat. As for pirates of Gith, it just easier to say they are either Githzarie or Githyankie... no need to add another Gith race... before we know it they be like Elves... one for each hieght and color. LOL Some more ships that are between the size of the Ogre Mammoth and Whale ship... Most ships are fair medium in size and just seems a few more large one would be out there. The reason I say this that with a larger ship one can carry more goods per helm... (just stop and think about profit and cost of a helm). Well till I can think of some more to say. Good night
#9 Dragonhelm Sep 07, 2003 8:28:10	Originally posted by Danastes Dohwar: This race has no natural hands and just can not run. Now if they had a natural form of mage hand, but this still would not allow for spellcasting or weilding weapons other then silly wegga. They are best served as Dragon Chow. Lol! Xixchils: This race is just toooo weird for me, trying to make conversions for them has given me headaches as to trying to balance thier ability to modify people. If one wants to play insect try Thri-kreen or Rastipede(Vrusk).[/b] I like the Xixchil surgery ability a lot. I could see that being represented either as a feat, or as a Xixchil Surgeon prestige class. Question is, how playable is such a character? Personally, I'm a big fan of Thri-kreen, and they're my insect of choice. Did I just say that? :D Hurwaet: Hmmm a reptile race that amazingly enougth has the ability to create/freshen air. With such races as Yuan-ti and Lizard Folk (I still trying to figure out what was wrong with 'Lizardman' for a name), it not seem to have a need to add one more lizard like race. In Dragonlance, lizard men are known as bakali. As for creating D20 modern classes/Future D20... well lets say I just not want to deal with another set of core classes. The core classes are good enough it seems to me. While the d20 Modern idea has its merits and is an interesting debate in design...I think I have to agree that PHB classes are the best way to go. Now maybe a base space mariner class would be good, or maybe the prestige classes (including Stellar Corsair) from Spider Moon would be good. I just really disliked Monte Cooks lattest effort where he created an Alternate Players Handbook. Thier are peaple out there (like me) that not see alot of need for NEW CORE classes. I rather see better Prestige Classes. Arcana Unearthed was an interesting experiment. It succeeded in some ways, not so much in others. Some of his new core classes come across as PHB class "clones". Greenbond sounds like a druid, magister sounds like a wizard, warmain sounds like a fighter, and unfettered just sounds...goofy. Sorry, can't get past the name. lol The mage blade is sorta neat, but the one that really catches my attention is the Totem Warrior. Excellent and ingenious class. Beyond that, his spell templates are rather good. I wonder how AU races would work in SJ. Hrm... Figure the Expert would be good for sailors, Ranger would be ok for Explorers, and Warriors would be good for marines. But I still see a need for Merchant (more for rules to govern merchandizing and other endevors), such a class would also give those with Merchant class an edge with finding merchanise and sell of merchanise. If not a merchant class at least a merchant Feat. You could use a rogue for that, I would think. Not quite right, though. As for pirates of Gith, it just easier to say they are either Githzarie or Githyankie... no need to add another Gith race... before we know it they be like Elves... one for each hieght and color. LOL A gith for all seasons! Great, that's as bad as the giff puns... ;) I dunno. I like classic SJ, but I think it would have to go through some redefinition to make it as a d20 setting.
#10 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2003 9:22:09	I think D&D would be better, from the general ideas behind Spelljammer, but on OGL game would be the next best thing, D20 modern though just seems wrong for the setting....
#11 zombiegleemax Sep 08, 2003 10:30:14	After play testing D20 spelljammer me and my players have made some changes to the rules present both from the Polyhedron and my homebrews. Crew Quality 0 to 3 ranks in Profession (spacehand) Untrained/Green 4 to 7 ranks in Profession (spacehand) Skilled 8 or more ranks in Profession (spacehand) Expert/Crack Crew Untrained crew give a -4 to ships weapons and pilot checks, Skilled give neither bonus or penalty to Pilot or Ship Weapons, and Expert/Crack crews give a +2 synergy bonus to ship weapons and pilot checks. Prestige Classes Not one player has taken or even considered 'Master Scavenger' and All have stated that 'Planetary Explorer' is way to weak of a class to want to use, and the Storykeeper seemed just at home on some planet as it was in space, more like they placed it in the polyhedron as the class would not otherwise see print else where (or it seems to me). The two classes that players have eyed and taken are Stellar Corsair and Spelljammer Ace. I have so far created the Stellar Corsair into Epic Progression Feats Spelljammer Specializtion feat was noted by one of my players as too weak, after all he could just as well get 'Skill Focus (pilot)' and get a +3 bonus to his pilot skill for all ships (instead of a +4 bonus to just one ship). He felt that the feat should either be dropped or increase the bonus to a +10. Ballista Master (and other such feats) should have a BAB requirement... after all a human could have both Ballista Master and Ballista Specialist at 1st level and have an awesome to hit with no experience what so ever. I have changed the requirements for Ballista Master to +8 BAB and Profession (spacehand) 4 ranks. Hadozee - cool guys to use, though I'd lessen their ties to the elves. I have already done this for my campaign. No Yazirian would be be subserviant race.
#12 wyvern76 Sep 09, 2003 22:20:55	Originally posted by Dragonhelm I think SJ is part swashbuckling adventures, and I think it has a certain sci-fi element to it in regards to space travel and all the wonders you can see in space. That's what I consider the core of the setting. So, with that in mind, how do you work the rules to represent the setting? Does D&D represent SJ anymore? Or do we need something like d20 Modern or the upcoming d20 Future? Or something else entirely? Your use of the phrase "swashbuckling adventures" made me think of the book of the same name from AEG. I haven't looked at it myself, but the classes seem like they would be well suited for what you want (at least in concept). Perhaps someone here has read it and would like to comment? The classes from Fading Suns are another possibility (and I'd be inclined to turn to Fading Suns for races myself). Personally, though, I don't see any strong reason not to use the D&D core classes. Using d20 Modern just seems like it would be really weird. As far as druids are concerned, they could easily be motivated by the desire to explore new planets (and prevent them from being exploited). For merchants, I think the best solution is to use the Expert class with maxed-out ranks in Profession (merchant) and create some specialized feats for haggling and so on. And for xixchil surgery, I'd modify the rules for spellware from Dragonstar. Wyvern
#13 Dragonhelm Sep 10, 2003 9:40:23	Originally posted by Wyvern76 Your use of the phrase "swashbuckling adventures" made me think of the book of the same name from AEG. I haven't looked at it myself, but the classes seem like they would be well suited for what you want (at least in concept). I'm thinking of picking it up, when money permits. I was thinking the other day that it might be good for SJ, but I haven't had a good look yet.
#14 jeleinen Sep 12, 2003 9:39:12	I'm actually planning on using the Mutants and Masterminds version of D20 for my Spelljammer campaign. It's classless nature and more freeform approach to the system in general suits my needs much better than any other version of the system, but still allows me to mine other D20 sources for ideas with minimal adaptation.