Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 05, 2003 22:56:39	Im just wondering for charachter advancement how many lvls of Crown Knight I need to become a Knight of the Sword. The charachter Im planning on will prolly be either go for 10 lvls of Crown Knight which will look like this. Minotaur racial lvls 3/fighter 2/Knight of the Crown 10 If I go for Sword Knight then Ill be looking like this. Minotaur racial lvls 3/fighter 2/cleric 2 +Crown Knight lvls then Sword Knight 10 lvls (hopefully) Will I be able to qualify for the Order of the Sword with only 3 lvls of the Crown?
#2 nevine Sep 05, 2003 23:20:03	Just one. Edit: And +6 Base attack and Will save +4..there are a few feats and skills, but those are cake in comparison to the aforementioned two.
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 0:12:50	Not to be a rules lawyer, but I can't picture the Knights of Solamnia accepting a Minotaur.
#4 iltharanos Sep 06, 2003 0:27:05	Originally posted by NoirAuteur Not to be a rules lawyer, but I can't picture the Knights of Solamnia accepting a Minotaur. If you go strictly by the listed prestige class requirements, then a minotaur can join the Solamnic Knights, as there is no listed race requirement like with the arcane archer or dwarven defender. But, in the background descriptive text it states the knighthood only commonly accepts humans and half-elves. If a minotaur works well in your campaign as a Solamnic knight, go for it. He'd almost certainly be unique. :D
#5 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 9:10:33	Cool, thanks very much guys. As for being a rules lawyer we won't allow 5 minotaurs into the Knighthood but I have always wanted to play a Minotaur in the Knighthood so we will allow myself to do so just with alot of eyes watching him all the time,hehe.
#6 kalanth Sep 06, 2003 9:20:35	Originally posted by NoirAuteur Not to be a rules lawyer, but I can't picture the Knights of Solamnia accepting a Minotaur. In a campaign I ran ages ago, one of the main NPC's was a Sivak Draconian that was the first true exception to the rules for the Knights of Solamnia. He was a Sword Knight before he died in a gas trap in a dungeon on Taladas. Not the most honorable way to go, but the players could not help him out with cutting his wings off. He was to large to fit through the doorway and no one had a shrink spell cause there were no mages in the party. I always felt that there should be exceptions in the KoS due to the constant changes to the Oath and Measure every since Sir Gunthar uth Wistan first revised the written documents.
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 11:13:37	I awalsys thought that you had to be Solanic to be a Solamnic Knight. The only expections that I know of were Caramon's boys Tanin and Sturm. I dont think that they would allow a minotaur into their organization.
#8 kalanth Sep 06, 2003 11:15:49	They started making exceptions a little before the choas war I think it was. Gunthar uth Wistan rewrote the Oath and Measure to allow non-Solamnic's, but it is still rare.
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 11:20:40	I would assume that alot of things can and will happen in the world other than what happens in a book. I think this is why alot of people don't like Dragonlance. Why bring up the fact that you haven't read about a Minotaur Knight before or that I shouldn't be allowed in my own house to do this. If you had read about a Knight of the Sword that was a Minotaur would it have been ok then? If we could only play in our own homes what you have read about whats the point. We are making the DLCS OUR world. Where OUR charachters will be as famous as the Original heroes. Im sure I haven't read as many DL books as many here. Does that mean that I don't have a right to play in DL? Come on its a fantasy world where we can do pretty much whatever we wish as long as we have fun. Rather than telling me that I can't do this why don't you just not mention anything at all. It isn't your place to tell a GAMER what they can't do in their own homes with a book that they have bought with their own money. I have always wanted to play a LG Minotaur Solamnic Knight. We will show and Role play many pf the difficulties of being a Minotaur in the KoS but thats all part of the fun. Thats my rant
#10 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 11:38:53	Holy simmer down there hammerhend. He was merley pointing out a fact and his opinion. It is hard enough for a human who is of Solamnic decent to get into the KoS nevermind a minotaur which most KoS view as evil beast. It is possible that a creature such as a minotaur could get in, but it would be very very very hard.
#11 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 11:48:25	Hehhe, its just SOOO many say that you can't do something in DL because they haven't read about it. Thats the fun of playing in a Role playing game, you can do things that you wish and impact the world that you love with your own group of heroes. I play to have a good time. To forget about the real world and the things that we can or can't do and its always a downer to me that people keep bringing up the fact that they haven't read about it so you can't do it. Why make this game focusing on what you CAN'T do when it should be focused on what you CAN do. This is part of why a post was made titled Dragonlance is full of restrictions. I think I made my point. Perhaps I went over the top and if I did Im sorry. But you know.....
#12 talinthas Sep 06, 2003 12:41:26	a minotaur knight sounds like a rad idea =) i'm right now rolling up a minotaur fighter who is LN, and has a tattoo of sargas on his left arm, and kiri on his right. He prays to whomever is most useful at the moment =)
#13 B-naa Sep 06, 2003 13:08:35	I think that a minotaur in the KoS is a great idea, after all there is a secret cult of minotaurs who worship Kiri-Jolith, who is after all the patron of the KoS. Can you imagine this character's conflict if the Knights actually agreed to help the Elves reclaim Silvanesti? Would he really want to kill his own people, or perhaps even members of his family. As for why he'd be in the KoS, well The Knights have always had a grudging respect for Minotaur honour going back to Huma and Kaz.
#14 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 13:31:05	It has always been a house rule in our DL campaigns that Minos could be Knights of the Crown (only). I'd say its up to your individual DM, though. Perhaps with the expanded admittance policies other humanoids could be allowed to enter the knighthood on a trial basis.
#15 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 13:42:20	Well my Minotaur is from the clan Kaziganthi and they have followed the teachings of the Emperor (Kiri-Jolith) for many generations. My charachter has white/silver fur and blue eyes (kind of looks like a Kiri-Jolith knock off,hehe). My charachter also was a slave (sort of) to a Knight of the Rose who my toon saved after being shot in the back by Hobgoblin arrows, rather than getting away free and clear from his imprissonment. That Knight took Karn Es- Kaziganthi as his squire and taught him the true meaning of the KoS.
#16 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 15:12:21	I like the idea, I really do. As a DM, though, I would roleplay the PC being under almost constant surveillence. Perhaps, because he is a minotaur, the KoS may not trust him fully, and have other Knights they trust travel with him, just to be on the safe side. That could make for an interesting predicament if said Knight(s) turns up dead. There are a million different ways you could go with this, mainly because there is no precedent.
#17 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 15:24:47	The minotaur question brings up a point I"ve been curious about for a long time now. It's not Dragonlance specific, but certainly applies: How many "house rules" and exceptions can be made before you're not playing Dragonlance anymore? We all know that the role-playing police are not going to arrest anyone for making changes to published rules, that's understood. But what about the campaign that doesn't like draconians, so they replace them with Orcs. And the Steel-based economy isn't realistic, so they change to gold. And that whole 3 moons affecting magic thing is too complicated, so they don't use it in "their" campaign. And heck - they thought an ogre kingpriest would be a cool idea so they did it. Why bother playing Dragonlance if you're not actually going to play Dragonlance?
#18 talinthas Sep 06, 2003 15:29:44	you have a point. however, i could easily imagine that the measure has a small sub section that deals with minotaurs in honor of Kaz, and could totally see making one or two minotaurs honorary knights for some extreme service..hell, i could even see those minotaurs advancing pretty high =)
#19 B-naa Sep 06, 2003 15:41:26	Dragonlance, should be a living breathing world. It changes, and so the people and their organisations must change too. At one time, there was only human male members of the KoS. But times have changed, now even Wizards are allowed to join the KoS. I think that there comes a time when even the KoS have to change to meet the times.
#20 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 15:43:09	While you do indeed have a point, CedarStGuy, I think you may have misunderstood. There should indeed be limits, but those should be set on a personal level. It's not anyperson's business to tell another how to run their game, that's how fights start. However, one should also welcome new ideas. Not to do so will make the world a bit stagnant, wouldn't ya' say?
#21 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 15:47:56	anyone ever read Weasel's Luck/Galen Beknighted series, or any of the Heroes series for that matter? If a spindly lil thief can become a knight, and if Kaz is an honorary protected, then a minotaur is quite likely. As people have said, Krynn is about change and growing, especially with post-War of Souls stuff. I'd love to see a booked mino sword knight, myself. i always had a thing for minotaurs, though.
#22 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 16:32:36	Bravo, I have never heard anyone call Dl a living changing world and thats exactly how I see it. I was just talking to my DM and he was laughing at how difficult my Minotsur was going to have it. Not trusted by all but 2 or 3 Knights and a handful of companions is a lonely way to live. But then again what other type of life could a Minotaur get living inside of human lands. I also didn't even think of the Silvanesti idea but it seems my DM has,hehe. beleive me Karn my Minotaur will have far from a free walk but it is his calling not his choice. My Dm also made a good point. Kevin mentioned the low number of KoS left. After all the wars and loss of Knights they would probably be more open to Karn just due to that fact alone. I am only reading the War of Souls now but I find it very refreshing to see female knights in that book.
#23 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 19:47:10	How many "house rules" and exceptions can be made before you're not playing Dragonlance anymore? House rules are there to enhance and adapt game play, not create major disruptions in story continuity. (example) In our case, our usage of Minotaur Crown Knights was based on the story of Kas. While allowing for the possibility of Mino Knights, we also decided that the Knighthood would never allow advancement beyond the Crown stage, seeing as Huma himself (quite possibly the most famous KoS) was restricted from such advancement (not being of confirmed nobility).
#24 zombiegleemax Sep 06, 2003 20:24:50	I don't really care what people do in their own games, since it doesn't affect me, but I think it's worth pointing out a misconception that is running through this thread: Being an "Honorary" Knight doesn't give a character Knight levels. Or at least, it shouldn't. Tanis was an honorary Knight, but he didn't have Knight levels (unless that's changed in 3rd Ed.) Tanis wasn't bound to the Oath and the Measure like a person with Knight levels would and should be.