Q: Favoured enemy changes? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Q: Favoured enemy changes?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 07, 2003 12:44:06 We have a Kender Ranger in the party with her first fav. enemy set to Humans. We just got the DLCS today and it says that you can chose organisations as fav. enemy as well.
She is planning to take the LoS PrC soon and we started to wonder.

If you have Fav. enemy human, and you take Fav. Enemy KoT as your second Fav. enemy, do they stack then?

Meaning that with a 1st Fav.enemy human at +4 (+2 from the second fav. enemy) and 2nd fav. enemy KoT. If you fight a Human KoT, will they stack for a total of +6 ?

The logical reasons says yes, since he is both human (1st FE +4) and a Knight of Thakisis (2nd FE +2). The rules don't say, but what is your ruling?
#2
zombiegleemax
Sep 07, 2003 13:03:44 Since the favored enemy bonuses are the same type of bonuses, I would rule that no they would not stack, the highest bonus overlaps the lower. So, just use the highest bonus.
#3
zombiegleemax
Sep 07, 2003 13:25:38 Nope, bonuses liek that never stack. Imagine during the lance everyone would take human and KoT and a high lvl ranger would have a crazy bonus, everyone would want to play one,hehe.

As you progress you gain a differant favored enemy and each favored enemy has a differant bonus so you would use the highest bonus that pertains to your target but not all the bonuses that pertain to them.
#4
coyote_skyheart
Sep 07, 2003 16:07:08 Actually, yes they do stack. It says it quite explicitly in the book, pg. 70

For example, a ranger/steel legionairre who has a +4 bonus against dragons from her ranger levels and a +2 bonus against chromatic dragons from her legionairre levels gains a total +6 bonus against chromatic dragons.

Now note that its +6 against chromatic dragons, not all dragons.

So in the case of humans, it would be +6 against human KoT, and +2 against other types of KoT, and +4 against humans who aren't KoT.
#5
jonesy
Sep 07, 2003 16:15:56
Originally posted by Hammerhand
Imagine during the lance everyone would take human and KoT...

There were no KoT during the War of the Lance.
#6
zombiegleemax
Sep 07, 2003 16:27:07 Once again I get something silly thrown in my face. You know more about DL, good for you, sheesh I think you knew what I meant even if I quoted the wrong war.

You added absolutley nothing to this discussion except to try and demean me.

Congrats
#7
jonesy
Sep 07, 2003 16:34:06 I didn't throw it in your face. I just found it funny that's all.
#8
zombiegleemax
Sep 07, 2003 16:46:31 Not all have perfect knowledge or recollection of books (its been 10 years or more since Ive read the novels), but as we laugh at them are we actually adding to their experience to try an enjoy these boards or are we hindering it.

You may be very young and I guess that would make sence but we should really try and enhance peoples experiences with our posts on these boards and not just post something to demean others.

Atleast thats how I was brought up
#9
zombiegleemax
Sep 07, 2003 17:46:39 .... Regardless that ruling seems very odd. It makes the Ranger much more powerful than before.

Let's look at this:

Ranger get's first favored enemy, he chooses humans.
(+2 to damage against humans)

When he levels up enough he gets another Fav. enemy; Knights of Takhisis. He takes his new +2 and puts it on humans.

(+4 damage against humans, +6 against KoT)

He levels up again, and now he chooses Wizards of High Sorcery, putting his +2 into humans again.

(+6 damage against humans, +8 against KoT ((human only)), +8 against WoHS ((only human ones)), +2 against KoT ((nonhuman)), +2 against WoHS ((nonhumans)))

Now compare this to the PHB Ranger progression. They say that at lvl 15 a Ranger could have three favored enemies at +6,+2, +2, or +4, +4, +2. Instead we have +8, +8, +6, +2, +2. That seems like a big leap in power to me.
#10
zombiegleemax
Sep 07, 2003 18:44:45
Originally posted by Coyote Skyheart
Actually, yes they do stack. It says it quite explicitly in the book, pg. 70

Now note that its +6 against chromatic dragons, not all dragons.

So in the case of humans, it would be +6 against human KoT, and +2 against other types of KoT, and +4 against humans who aren't KoT.

Hmm....just checked it.....it's right. It's also kinda stupid, but right. At least it has limits. Hmmmm...
.... Regardless that ruling seems very odd. It makes the Ranger much more powerful than before.

Actually....no it doesn't....this nice little ability is only for steel legionnaires. I guess it's their one really powerful thing.
#11
zombiegleemax
Sep 07, 2003 18:55:25 Also, I could be wrong but doesn't it have something about not being able to select your own race as a favoured enemy? (I know it doesn't apply to the example given above but still...)

Arandur
#12
jonesy
Sep 08, 2003 1:33:54
Originally posted by Hammerhand
Not all have perfect knowledge or recollection of books (its been 10 years or more since Ive read the novels), but as we laugh at them are we actually adding to their experience to try an enjoy these boards or are we hindering it.

You may be very young and I guess that would make sence but we should really try and enhance peoples experiences with our posts on these boards and not just post something to demean others.

Atleast thats how I was brought up

Huh? Woke up on the wrong side of the bed did you? It was a perfectly innocent remark. I didn't mean it as an insult to anyones knowledge. I'd certainly like to be corrected if I commented something like you did. Otherwise I might not get it right at all. And what the hell does age have anything to do with it, presuming that you even know what mine is? Sheesh.

P.S. If you really want to continue this completely pointless discussion (although I fail see why) PM me. Really believe me when I say that I meant no offense.
#13
zombiegleemax
Sep 08, 2003 2:54:50 yes, the stacking only counts for the 2 Steel Legionaire fav. enemies, and as a legionnaire it also says you can add the second +2 bonus to the same favoured enemy if you so desire.
So a steel legionaire (with no ranger levels) could take KoT as his first fav. enemy and Give it +4 and Black Robe Mages as his second for either a +2 (giving the other +2 to KoT) or a +4.

So with ranger levels and teh above example, you could end up with +6 vs. KoT and then your +whatever from Ranger levels vs. Human KoT.

After all you spend 3 levels on the thing, you better get something other than a henchman and a renamed version of Bardic Knowledge.

And in the 3.5 PHB the ranger has been changed, so that you no longer need to be evil alignmenet to take your own race as favoured enemy!
When campaigning against 80% humans, there is little point in a ranger who can only use his Fav. Enemy against a single monster every 20 game sessions.

And as for Jonesy and Hammerhand, could you please leave at that so this thread doesn't become a place for insults but a place to discuss Ranger (and legionnaire) stuff for DL?
#14
agent_malucci_dup
Sep 08, 2003 8:50:05 If you are min-maxing favored enemy to give you the maximum amount of help at all levels, then of course you take humans. In a role-playing sense, you would need to back that up with reasons more than just "i was fighting lots of human, so they are my favorite". Since everyone seems to understand that DL is mainly about roleplaying, a good DM, should really keep a handle on things like this. Why would a good elf have elves as a favored enemy, and why would a kender have humans as a favored enemy? In a role-playing sense its a little silly. I understand the idea of it, but its almost a blatant min-max(which is not necessarily bad). In the upcoming campaign we are going to play, i am going to be a kender ranger, and of course i chose dragons as my favored enemy. They razed the homeland, they are bad. Maybe its me, but things like the generally happy go lucky kender spending time specializing in killing humans is a bit much.
AM
#15
zombiegleemax
Sep 08, 2003 9:26:13 When I said no about them stacking I thought it was justabout a ranger but I guess there is a PrC in the discussion and since it only affects two favored enemies granted by that PrC I would deff. say that they do stack but alas I don't have that book yeet but it is in the mail,hehe.

I agree with you agent. Perhaps it isn;t in the rules any longer but we do need to have these things make sence. If an Elf spent all of his time deffenind Ahlana from Silvanesti assassins then perhaps I could see an elf choosing elf-Silvanesti as his favored enemy (theres a tad bit of bad blood there I think) but I can't see unleess there is a role playing reason that one would take his own race as fis FE.

On the other side I think the old rules about if you are evil you can choose your own race as FE cause lets face it alot of nasty people (humans mostly) depicted don't give a rats ### about the other human beside him. I wouldn't allow a Minotaur no matter what his alignment to choose Minotaur as his FE (they just care too much about there own brothers and sisters no matter what the differances between then).

As for Jonsey it is forgotten but I wish people would think twice before they add remarks that have ZERO possitive connotation and don't even add to the discussion on the thread. It just makes it harder for some to gain the courage to make a post.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2003 12:44:06	We have a Kender Ranger in the party with her first fav. enemy set to Humans. We just got the DLCS today and it says that you can chose organisations as fav. enemy as well. She is planning to take the LoS PrC soon and we started to wonder. If you have Fav. enemy human, and you take Fav. Enemy KoT as your second Fav. enemy, do they stack then? Meaning that with a 1st Fav.enemy human at +4 (+2 from the second fav. enemy) and 2nd fav. enemy KoT. If you fight a Human KoT, will they stack for a total of +6 ? The logical reasons says yes, since he is both human (1st FE +4) and a Knight of Thakisis (2nd FE +2). The rules don't say, but what is your ruling?
#2 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2003 13:03:44	Since the favored enemy bonuses are the same type of bonuses, I would rule that no they would not stack, the highest bonus overlaps the lower. So, just use the highest bonus.
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2003 13:25:38	Nope, bonuses liek that never stack. Imagine during the lance everyone would take human and KoT and a high lvl ranger would have a crazy bonus, everyone would want to play one,hehe. As you progress you gain a differant favored enemy and each favored enemy has a differant bonus so you would use the highest bonus that pertains to your target but not all the bonuses that pertain to them.
#4 coyote_skyheart Sep 07, 2003 16:07:08	Actually, yes they do stack. It says it quite explicitly in the book, pg. 70 For example, a ranger/steel legionairre who has a +4 bonus against dragons from her ranger levels and a +2 bonus against chromatic dragons from her legionairre levels gains a total +6 bonus against chromatic dragons. Now note that its +6 against chromatic dragons, not all dragons. So in the case of humans, it would be +6 against human KoT, and +2 against other types of KoT, and +4 against humans who aren't KoT.
#5 jonesy Sep 07, 2003 16:15:56	Originally posted by Hammerhand Imagine during the lance everyone would take human and KoT... There were no KoT during the War of the Lance.
#6 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2003 16:27:07	Once again I get something silly thrown in my face. You know more about DL, good for you, sheesh I think you knew what I meant even if I quoted the wrong war. You added absolutley nothing to this discussion except to try and demean me. Congrats
#7 jonesy Sep 07, 2003 16:34:06	I didn't throw it in your face. I just found it funny that's all.
#8 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2003 16:46:31	Not all have perfect knowledge or recollection of books (its been 10 years or more since Ive read the novels), but as we laugh at them are we actually adding to their experience to try an enjoy these boards or are we hindering it. You may be very young and I guess that would make sence but we should really try and enhance peoples experiences with our posts on these boards and not just post something to demean others. Atleast thats how I was brought up
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2003 17:46:39	.... Regardless that ruling seems very odd. It makes the Ranger much more powerful than before. Let's look at this: Ranger get's first favored enemy, he chooses humans. (+2 to damage against humans) When he levels up enough he gets another Fav. enemy; Knights of Takhisis. He takes his new +2 and puts it on humans. (+4 damage against humans, +6 against KoT) He levels up again, and now he chooses Wizards of High Sorcery, putting his +2 into humans again. (+6 damage against humans, +8 against KoT ((human only)), +8 against WoHS ((only human ones)), +2 against KoT ((nonhuman)), +2 against WoHS ((nonhumans))) Now compare this to the PHB Ranger progression. They say that at lvl 15 a Ranger could have three favored enemies at +6,+2, +2, or +4, +4, +2. Instead we have +8, +8, +6, +2, +2. That seems like a big leap in power to me.
#10 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2003 18:44:45	Originally posted by Coyote Skyheart Actually, yes they do stack. It says it quite explicitly in the book, pg. 70 Now note that its +6 against chromatic dragons, not all dragons. So in the case of humans, it would be +6 against human KoT, and +2 against other types of KoT, and +4 against humans who aren't KoT. Hmm....just checked it.....it's right. It's also kinda stupid, but right. At least it has limits. Hmmmm... .... Regardless that ruling seems very odd. It makes the Ranger much more powerful than before. Actually....no it doesn't....this nice little ability is only for steel legionnaires. I guess it's their one really powerful thing.
#11 zombiegleemax Sep 07, 2003 18:55:25	Also, I could be wrong but doesn't it have something about not being able to select your own race as a favoured enemy? (I know it doesn't apply to the example given above but still...) Arandur
#12 jonesy Sep 08, 2003 1:33:54	Originally posted by Hammerhand Not all have perfect knowledge or recollection of books (its been 10 years or more since Ive read the novels), but as we laugh at them are we actually adding to their experience to try an enjoy these boards or are we hindering it. You may be very young and I guess that would make sence but we should really try and enhance peoples experiences with our posts on these boards and not just post something to demean others. Atleast thats how I was brought up Huh? Woke up on the wrong side of the bed did you? It was a perfectly innocent remark. I didn't mean it as an insult to anyones knowledge. I'd certainly like to be corrected if I commented something like you did. Otherwise I might not get it right at all. And what the hell does age have anything to do with it, presuming that you even know what mine is? Sheesh. P.S. If you really want to continue this completely pointless discussion (although I fail see why) PM me. Really believe me when I say that I meant no offense.
#13 zombiegleemax Sep 08, 2003 2:54:50	yes, the stacking only counts for the 2 Steel Legionaire fav. enemies, and as a legionnaire it also says you can add the second +2 bonus to the same favoured enemy if you so desire. So a steel legionaire (with no ranger levels) could take KoT as his first fav. enemy and Give it +4 and Black Robe Mages as his second for either a +2 (giving the other +2 to KoT) or a +4. So with ranger levels and teh above example, you could end up with +6 vs. KoT and then your +whatever from Ranger levels vs. Human KoT. After all you spend 3 levels on the thing, you better get something other than a henchman and a renamed version of Bardic Knowledge. And in the 3.5 PHB the ranger has been changed, so that you no longer need to be evil alignmenet to take your own race as favoured enemy! When campaigning against 80% humans, there is little point in a ranger who can only use his Fav. Enemy against a single monster every 20 game sessions. And as for Jonesy and Hammerhand, could you please leave at that so this thread doesn't become a place for insults but a place to discuss Ranger (and legionnaire) stuff for DL?
#14 agent_malucci_dup Sep 08, 2003 8:50:05	If you are min-maxing favored enemy to give you the maximum amount of help at all levels, then of course you take humans. In a role-playing sense, you would need to back that up with reasons more than just "i was fighting lots of human, so they are my favorite". Since everyone seems to understand that DL is mainly about roleplaying, a good DM, should really keep a handle on things like this. Why would a good elf have elves as a favored enemy, and why would a kender have humans as a favored enemy? In a role-playing sense its a little silly. I understand the idea of it, but its almost a blatant min-max(which is not necessarily bad). In the upcoming campaign we are going to play, i am going to be a kender ranger, and of course i chose dragons as my favored enemy. They razed the homeland, they are bad. Maybe its me, but things like the generally happy go lucky kender spending time specializing in killing humans is a bit much. AM
#15 zombiegleemax Sep 08, 2003 9:26:13	When I said no about them stacking I thought it was justabout a ranger but I guess there is a PrC in the discussion and since it only affects two favored enemies granted by that PrC I would deff. say that they do stack but alas I don't have that book yeet but it is in the mail,hehe. I agree with you agent. Perhaps it isn;t in the rules any longer but we do need to have these things make sence. If an Elf spent all of his time deffenind Ahlana from Silvanesti assassins then perhaps I could see an elf choosing elf-Silvanesti as his favored enemy (theres a tad bit of bad blood there I think) but I can't see unleess there is a role playing reason that one would take his own race as fis FE. On the other side I think the old rules about if you are evil you can choose your own race as FE cause lets face it alot of nasty people (humans mostly) depicted don't give a rats ### about the other human beside him. I wouldn't allow a Minotaur no matter what his alignment to choose Minotaur as his FE (they just care too much about there own brothers and sisters no matter what the differances between then). As for Jonsey it is forgotten but I wish people would think twice before they add remarks that have ZERO possitive connotation and don't even add to the discussion on the thread. It just makes it harder for some to gain the courage to make a post.