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Paladine as mortal - need help

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 11:00:17 In the DLCS it doesn't say anywhere what Paladine's name is now that he is mortal, and what he is up to.

It only says in the timeline that he is an elf and he kills Thakisis.

I'm writing my campaign for 5th age after WoS (6th age, anyone?)
Where Thakisis is being reborn as a dragon because Mina managed to cast som sort of resurrection spell and transfer Thakisis' soul into one of Malystryx's eggs that Mina stole, and now Thakisis is reborn as a dragon and she uses the skull totem she stole from Malystryx to grow rapidly.

I need to know what Paladine is up to, cuz I was planning on having him lead the Qualinesti elves back to Qualinesti and found a new capital further into the forest away from the lake of death.
#2
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 11:04:38 For one, it wasn't Paladine who killed Takhisis. It was Silvanoshei with a broken Dragonlance who killed her. Paladine just stripped his godhood away in exchange for Takhisis's immortality.
As for what he's doing, dunno. The War of Souls is the last books so far out for this timeline. Weis and Hickman are working on new novels, but nothing's been set in stone yet. Have Paladine do whatever you want him to do.
#3
shugi
Sep 09, 2003 11:05:31 He is mentioned in the AoM sourcebook -- a number of elves are following him and seem to have a "freedom fighter" aspect to them. They show up somewhere, perform an act of good, and fade away. I believe his name is mentioned as well (it's Valthonis).
#4
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 11:25:18 Oh, yeah..just re-read the entry on page 210 of the DLCS....it just says Paladine shows up as an elf and he stands before her as Silvanoshei slays her with the broken lance.....

Kewl....

Are you sure about the name?
#5
kalanth
Sep 09, 2003 11:40:40 I have not read that part in the books, but I am honestly surprised that he did not show up as Fizban.

I figure that he is in hiding right now because I am doing much the same thing as Eylwn, except that it is not Mina that is doing it.
#6
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 11:54:51 Here is my setting so far.

This is just the overview of events, as this is our first DL game I will let the players follow their own calling and let them influence whatever events they want.

Storm over Ansalon 5th age (possible 6th age)
#7
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 14:05:02 I was confused by the whole Valthonis elf thing too. Why an elf that we have never ever seen or heard of before? I see how it would make sense seing as how the elves were his token race, but then why was Tak transformed into a human? Humans are supposed to be Gliean's! The high ogres were supposed to be Tak's favoured race. I think it would have been way wayy cooler if she showed up as some throwback to the majesty of the high ogres... not just ANOTHER human woman...
#8
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 14:53:34 Ever read the Death Gate Cycle? Fizban made an appearance there as well (as Zifnab, no less). Also, he made an allusion also to having used Fizban before on Krynn, which is probably why he chose a more obscure avatar. I'm surprised they don't call him E'li, honestly.
#9
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 15:07:20 I think he had another cameo in another series though i can't recall what.... But anyhoo, his name was another variation on the fizban thing... Nizfab i thinks....
#10
kalanth
Sep 09, 2003 15:10:18
Originally posted by mwbeeler
Ever read the Death Gate Cycle? Fizban made an appearance there as well (as Zifnab, no less).

That was the part of that series that bothered me so much. I can understand why they did it, but boy oh boy did it ever irk me. Almost as much as it bothers me to read [i]anything[/i] about gully dwarfs.
#11
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 15:36:47
Originally posted by Apocalyp$e
I was confused by the whole Valthonis elf thing too. Why an elf that we have never ever seen or heard of before? I see how it would make sense seing as how the elves were his token race, but then why was Tak transformed into a human? Humans are supposed to be Gliean's! The high ogres were supposed to be Tak's favoured race. I think it would have been way wayy cooler if she showed up as some throwback to the majesty of the high ogres... not just ANOTHER human woman...

Valthonis translates to "The Exile" in elven....As he is an exile from the heavens, and he has taken the troubles of his chosen people, the elves, he simply called himself that. As far as Takhisis being a human....I have a theory on that.....she was appearing as an avatar and had no idea she was going to be stripped of her godhood, therefore when the other gods removed her immortality and godly abilities, they also trapped her in the form she had taken. Besides...I don't think that Takhisis is exactly proud of her chosen race.....those with brains left her worship for that of good, and those who remained true to her are degenerate ogres.....tough yes, but utterly stupid. Another point would be that Takhisis has never been true or loyal to anyone or anything, and I believe that this extends to the race of ogres she created.
#12
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 15:55:33 It would have been interesting if she was in Dragon form when being turned into a mortal.
#13
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 19:46:03 i still like the thought that valthonis might be a dragon or something..... :D it's not true but it's kinda cool.
#14
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 19:49:36 You know, this brings me to another thought........ Paladine and Takhisis were worshiped on other planets than just Krynn. For one, they were Bahamut and Tiamut on Oerth (greyhawk) and i think Faerun as well. I know that same gods in multiple worlds are autonamous (each world has their god a reflection instead of that same god ruling in multiple worlds; this is explained in the Forgotten Realms book Faiths and Pantheons) but something like this might affect their other versions, wouldn't you think? One of my friends also alluded to the alien world of Malys and her brethren as being Faerun (since most sources have faerunian dragons being much bigger than krynnish dragons). So... this makes one think how the dragon gods are faring in the other worlds with the loss of their Krynnish reflections.
#15
nevine
Sep 09, 2003 19:57:00 Heh..no, anything that happenes to one won't affect the others. For example, the Greyhawk setting had adventures that led up to possibly killing Lolth back in the old days. But, it wouldn't have caused any harm to her other "incarnations".
#16
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 20:27:38 The alien world is not Faerun. Faerun dragons are not as big as Malys and the other dragon lords. And supposedly Malys is small compared to some of the dragons on her home planet. So if Malys is weak and small then think of how powerful these other dragons must be. They would have owned faerun by now.
#17
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 20:49:41
Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
You know, this brings me to another thought........ Paladine and Takhisis were worshiped on other planets than just Krynn. For one, they were Bahamut and Tiamut on Oerth (greyhawk) and i think Faerun as well. I know that same gods in multiple worlds are autonamous (each world has their god a reflection instead of that same god ruling in multiple worlds; this is explained in the Forgotten Realms book Faiths and Pantheons) but something like this might affect their other versions, wouldn't you think? One of my friends also alluded to the alien world of Malys and her brethren as being Faerun (since most sources have faerunian dragons being much bigger than krynnish dragons). So... this makes one think how the dragon gods are faring in the other worlds with the loss of their Krynnish reflections.

However....time and time again, Tracy Hickman has stated that Paladine and Takhisis were only modeled after Bahamut and Tiamat.....they absolutely are not one and the same. The statement you see in Faiths and Pantheons is yet another one of those attempts made to connect all of the D&D worlds. As now DL seems to be it's own separate entity, complete with it's very own planar cosmology(without the great wheel Woot!) we can finally lay to rest all the control that one setting tries to have over another.
#18
dragontooth
Sep 09, 2003 22:31:33 Krynn Dragons are the same size as FR, or Greyhawk Dragon of the same age.

However the world where the Dragon Overlords come from are much bigger... Bunch of epic level dragons there. Wouldn't want to live there.
#19
morgion-s_claw
Sep 12, 2003 8:34:43 Well, if one remembers that Takhisis was showing up for Mina, I'd say sch chose the human female form to give Mina the image of the superior mother she never had (and for the idealized image of a mother, she wouldn't be held to respect age etc.)

As for her "loyalty" for ogres etc., well, there are those Titans around. Looks like a kind of big favor for the ogres.

And finally, just because you're not in touch with the concept of loyality or caring, a severe slave-master wouldn't waste away all his slaves for a whim...especially if you're in contest with another trying to demonstrate that the free volunteers doing the work are so much better and effective than beaten slaves...

M's Claw
#20
zombiegleemax
Sep 12, 2003 13:50:45
Originally posted by Kalanth
I have not read that part in the books, but I am honestly surprised that he did not show up as Fizban.

If he had, Paladine would die of old age in no time. At least as an elf, he gets a few centuries to stick around and do random acts of good.
#21
carteeg
Sep 12, 2003 18:14:09 Personally, I wished they turned Takhisis into a Kender. :D
#22
frostdawn
Sep 16, 2003 13:04:28 Valthonis is Paladine's new mortal form, and is followed by self appointed protectors that know who he was formerly, even though he doesn't really want followers anymore.

The idea for Takhisis sounds pretty good, but you might want to take into consideration something from the Age of Mortals book. The body of Takhisis was laid to rest, and the resting place was hidden by the other gods as a last respect to her. They have vowed that any mortal that desecrates her tomb will spur the final cataclysm where the gods will utterly destroy Krynn...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 11:00:17	In the DLCS it doesn't say anywhere what Paladine's name is now that he is mortal, and what he is up to. It only says in the timeline that he is an elf and he kills Thakisis. I'm writing my campaign for 5th age after WoS (6th age, anyone?) Where Thakisis is being reborn as a dragon because Mina managed to cast som sort of resurrection spell and transfer Thakisis' soul into one of Malystryx's eggs that Mina stole, and now Thakisis is reborn as a dragon and she uses the skull totem she stole from Malystryx to grow rapidly. I need to know what Paladine is up to, cuz I was planning on having him lead the Qualinesti elves back to Qualinesti and found a new capital further into the forest away from the lake of death.
#2 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 11:04:38	For one, it wasn't Paladine who killed Takhisis. It was Silvanoshei with a broken Dragonlance who killed her. Paladine just stripped his godhood away in exchange for Takhisis's immortality. As for what he's doing, dunno. The War of Souls is the last books so far out for this timeline. Weis and Hickman are working on new novels, but nothing's been set in stone yet. Have Paladine do whatever you want him to do.
#3 shugi Sep 09, 2003 11:05:31	He is mentioned in the AoM sourcebook -- a number of elves are following him and seem to have a "freedom fighter" aspect to them. They show up somewhere, perform an act of good, and fade away. I believe his name is mentioned as well (it's Valthonis).
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 11:25:18	Oh, yeah..just re-read the entry on page 210 of the DLCS....it just says Paladine shows up as an elf and he stands before her as Silvanoshei slays her with the broken lance..... Kewl.... Are you sure about the name?
#5 kalanth Sep 09, 2003 11:40:40	I have not read that part in the books, but I am honestly surprised that he did not show up as Fizban. I figure that he is in hiding right now because I am doing much the same thing as Eylwn, except that it is not Mina that is doing it.
#6 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 11:54:51	Here is my setting so far. This is just the overview of events, as this is our first DL game I will let the players follow their own calling and let them influence whatever events they want. Storm over Ansalon 5th age (possible 6th age)
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 14:05:02	I was confused by the whole Valthonis elf thing too. Why an elf that we have never ever seen or heard of before? I see how it would make sense seing as how the elves were his token race, but then why was Tak transformed into a human? Humans are supposed to be Gliean's! The high ogres were supposed to be Tak's favoured race. I think it would have been way wayy cooler if she showed up as some throwback to the majesty of the high ogres... not just ANOTHER human woman...
#8 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 14:53:34	Ever read the Death Gate Cycle? Fizban made an appearance there as well (as Zifnab, no less). Also, he made an allusion also to having used Fizban before on Krynn, which is probably why he chose a more obscure avatar. I'm surprised they don't call him E'li, honestly.
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 15:07:20	I think he had another cameo in another series though i can't recall what.... But anyhoo, his name was another variation on the fizban thing... Nizfab i thinks....
#10 kalanth Sep 09, 2003 15:10:18	Originally posted by mwbeeler Ever read the Death Gate Cycle? Fizban made an appearance there as well (as Zifnab, no less). That was the part of that series that bothered me so much. I can understand why they did it, but boy oh boy did it ever irk me. Almost as much as it bothers me to read [i]anything[/i] about gully dwarfs.
#11 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 15:36:47	Originally posted by Apocalyp$e I was confused by the whole Valthonis elf thing too. Why an elf that we have never ever seen or heard of before? I see how it would make sense seing as how the elves were his token race, but then why was Tak transformed into a human? Humans are supposed to be Gliean's! The high ogres were supposed to be Tak's favoured race. I think it would have been way wayy cooler if she showed up as some throwback to the majesty of the high ogres... not just ANOTHER human woman... Valthonis translates to "The Exile" in elven....As he is an exile from the heavens, and he has taken the troubles of his chosen people, the elves, he simply called himself that. As far as Takhisis being a human....I have a theory on that.....she was appearing as an avatar and had no idea she was going to be stripped of her godhood, therefore when the other gods removed her immortality and godly abilities, they also trapped her in the form she had taken. Besides...I don't think that Takhisis is exactly proud of her chosen race.....those with brains left her worship for that of good, and those who remained true to her are degenerate ogres.....tough yes, but utterly stupid. Another point would be that Takhisis has never been true or loyal to anyone or anything, and I believe that this extends to the race of ogres she created.
#12 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 15:55:33	It would have been interesting if she was in Dragon form when being turned into a mortal.
#13 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 19:46:03	i still like the thought that valthonis might be a dragon or something..... :D it's not true but it's kinda cool.
#14 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 19:49:36	You know, this brings me to another thought........ Paladine and Takhisis were worshiped on other planets than just Krynn. For one, they were Bahamut and Tiamut on Oerth (greyhawk) and i think Faerun as well. I know that same gods in multiple worlds are autonamous (each world has their god a reflection instead of that same god ruling in multiple worlds; this is explained in the Forgotten Realms book Faiths and Pantheons) but something like this might affect their other versions, wouldn't you think? One of my friends also alluded to the alien world of Malys and her brethren as being Faerun (since most sources have faerunian dragons being much bigger than krynnish dragons). So... this makes one think how the dragon gods are faring in the other worlds with the loss of their Krynnish reflections.
#15 nevine Sep 09, 2003 19:57:00	Heh..no, anything that happenes to one won't affect the others. For example, the Greyhawk setting had adventures that led up to possibly killing Lolth back in the old days. But, it wouldn't have caused any harm to her other "incarnations".
#16 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 20:27:38	The alien world is not Faerun. Faerun dragons are not as big as Malys and the other dragon lords. And supposedly Malys is small compared to some of the dragons on her home planet. So if Malys is weak and small then think of how powerful these other dragons must be. They would have owned faerun by now.
#17 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 20:49:41	Originally posted by Magus_Extreme You know, this brings me to another thought........ Paladine and Takhisis were worshiped on other planets than just Krynn. For one, they were Bahamut and Tiamut on Oerth (greyhawk) and i think Faerun as well. I know that same gods in multiple worlds are autonamous (each world has their god a reflection instead of that same god ruling in multiple worlds; this is explained in the Forgotten Realms book Faiths and Pantheons) but something like this might affect their other versions, wouldn't you think? One of my friends also alluded to the alien world of Malys and her brethren as being Faerun (since most sources have faerunian dragons being much bigger than krynnish dragons). So... this makes one think how the dragon gods are faring in the other worlds with the loss of their Krynnish reflections. However....time and time again, Tracy Hickman has stated that Paladine and Takhisis were only modeled after Bahamut and Tiamat.....they absolutely are not one and the same. The statement you see in Faiths and Pantheons is yet another one of those attempts made to connect all of the D&D worlds. As now DL seems to be it's own separate entity, complete with it's very own planar cosmology(without the great wheel Woot!) we can finally lay to rest all the control that one setting tries to have over another.
#18 dragontooth Sep 09, 2003 22:31:33	Krynn Dragons are the same size as FR, or Greyhawk Dragon of the same age. However the world where the Dragon Overlords come from are much bigger... Bunch of epic level dragons there. Wouldn't want to live there.
#19 morgion-s_claw Sep 12, 2003 8:34:43	Well, if one remembers that Takhisis was showing up for Mina, I'd say sch chose the human female form to give Mina the image of the superior mother she never had (and for the idealized image of a mother, she wouldn't be held to respect age etc.) As for her "loyalty" for ogres etc., well, there are those Titans around. Looks like a kind of big favor for the ogres. And finally, just because you're not in touch with the concept of loyality or caring, a severe slave-master wouldn't waste away all his slaves for a whim...especially if you're in contest with another trying to demonstrate that the free volunteers doing the work are so much better and effective than beaten slaves... M's Claw
#20 zombiegleemax Sep 12, 2003 13:50:45	Originally posted by Kalanth I have not read that part in the books, but I am honestly surprised that he did not show up as Fizban. If he had, Paladine would die of old age in no time. At least as an elf, he gets a few centuries to stick around and do random acts of good.
#21 carteeg Sep 12, 2003 18:14:09	Personally, I wished they turned Takhisis into a Kender. :D
#22 frostdawn Sep 16, 2003 13:04:28	Valthonis is Paladine's new mortal form, and is followed by self appointed protectors that know who he was formerly, even though he doesn't really want followers anymore. The idea for Takhisis sounds pretty good, but you might want to take into consideration something from the Age of Mortals book. The body of Takhisis was laid to rest, and the resting place was hidden by the other gods as a last respect to her. They have vowed that any mortal that desecrates her tomb will spur the final cataclysm where the gods will utterly destroy Krynn...