Dragonlance on the High Seas... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dragonlance on the High Seas...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 09, 2003 23:59:49 Dragonlance on the High Seas...

Without cannon, how would you capture the thrill of naval combat? The ballistae, catapult and arbalest seem to either deal significantly less damage or are far too inaccurate to use effectively at sea. How do others deal with this or are Naval battles limited to rams and boarding parties?

Arandur
#2
talinthas
Sep 10, 2003 0:10:59 Magic, my friend =)
remember the short story about Sturm and his mother coming to solace from solamnia? They have a cool magic rope thing.

Also, who needs cannons when you have a 6th level or higher sorceror? FIREBALL!
#3
zombiegleemax
Sep 10, 2003 0:34:00 hmmm, how in the hell did I not see that one coming...;)

Yeah but not every ship can have a wizard of High Sorcery upon it (OK I'll grant things are a little different in AoM with sorcerors and all) especially since I'm playing during the Chaos War. I didn't think that there would be a sufficient amount of Wizards to go around. I was thinking more along the lines of the Minotaur pirating vessels and the Sea barbarians...

Arandur
#4
jonesy
Sep 10, 2003 5:03:32
The ballistae, catapult and arbalest seem to either deal significantly less damage or are far too inaccurate to use effectively at sea.

Which is probably why they were so rarely used in the real world. The Romans were probably the most experienced with them, and their primary use for such weapons was siege against coastal towns (and they rarely even got to fire them as the simple sight of a Roman frigate arming catapults was usually enough). Even after the invention of cannons mounted on ships were heavy weapons little more then close combat weapons in naval warfare.

Now in Dragonlance I'd say that pretty much the only ones to regularly use them on ships would be the minotaurs. Wizards and sorcerors are far more versatile and effective (and cost-effective as you can take a ship without damage to it with sleep spells or similar).
#5
zombiegleemax
Sep 10, 2003 6:11:20 Remember that most ship to ship combats in any "pre-cannon" era was about capturing the ship as much as doing away with the crew. So weapons that caused huge amounts of damage were actually a bad thing.
So, on Krynn, I'd say it depends on the crew of the ship. If you're talking about Minotaur pirates I'd suggest archers. They would be used to clear the deck for a fast boarding action and flaming arrows could be used to destroy sails to, in effect, destroy the ship (but without actually damaging too much of the vessel).
Sea barbarians would probably use the same tactic but with more spears and less arrows...and lots more boarding.
But as for real "ship to ship" combat I'd just use the ballistae. It's a bit more acurate and quite a bit more damaging in a D&D game than it ever was in the real world. Of course, you could always have that one mad gnome ship with cannons. ;)
#6
zombiegleemax
Sep 10, 2003 11:42:08 From ancient to medivel times most ship to ship and fleet to fleet actions mirrored battles on land. The sailors guided the ship but the soldiers did the fighting as the ships of both sides smashed together, boarding each others ships like they were floating forts that could move.
Until the cannon, ship "killer" weapons were never taken seriously as ships were tough to sink. A ship, even a wooden one, are harder to sink then most of you think. Besides it takes alot of money and manpower to build and run a ship, so it helps to capture an enemy ship to add to your own fleet. Much the presige of capturing an enemy fortress.
It wasn't until the English used cannon to pound away at the Spannish Armada, rather then get in to close a risk a boarding action and being overwhelmed by the superior numbers of the Spannish crews and soldiers, that cannon showed they're value. Cannon have more range then most ballista or catapult.
Magic and gnome "inventions" and certain sea monsters made sea warfare on Krynn a three dimensional affair. To it stands to reason that wizards, sorcerors, mystics and cleric play a role, but not a center stage overwhelming "do all the work" role on the High Seas.
On a side note: To increase the power and accuracy of the cannons a fleet would form into a "line" of battle and blast away at the enemy "line." Hense the name "ship-of-the-line." They would fire from afar and inflict as much damage as possible by taking and then closing to either board or finish the enemy off.
#7
zombiegleemax
Sep 10, 2003 13:38:51 My favorite ship to ship weapon ever: The under the water line bronze ram Take no prisoners! That and I'd assume any fairly successful pirate would invest in a wand of lightning bolts or at least a small catapult of burning pitch.
#8
brimstone
Sep 10, 2003 13:48:43 Well, the minotaurs of Night of Blood weild catapults on their ships with great accuracy. So did the ogres (and presumably the elves...since the boats were stolen) from the Icewall Trilogy.
#9
zombiegleemax
Sep 10, 2003 16:43:33 Wasn't it Par-Salian that called himself a sea mage (before becoming the head of the white order and later the WoHS that is) I may be mistaken. But I remember reading that and thinking how cool it would be to be sailing and cast spells to control wind and water, storms, ect. :D
#10
brimstone
Sep 10, 2003 16:48:30
Originally posted by Slapstick_80
Wasn't it Par-Salian that called himself a sea mage

Nope, that was Dumbar Mastermate (or Mastermane). He was Par-Salian's replacement.
#11
zombiegleemax
Sep 11, 2003 20:42:41 Duh!!! I new it was something around that time. Thanks for clarifying, I thought it was a dark-skinned guy and all the mental images of Par Salian is this old white guy. hehe :D Still seems like a cool idea tho.
#12
zombiegleemax
Sep 11, 2003 23:20:04 Read the book Knights of Solamnia. This has some very good examples of naval combat.
#13
brimstone
Sep 12, 2003 11:26:40
Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007
Read the book Knights of Solamnia. This has some very good examples of naval combat.

Um...there is no book by that name. Which one are you talking about?
#14
talinthas
Sep 12, 2003 11:29:31 i think he means the pirvan the wayward series.
#15
brimstone
Sep 12, 2003 12:04:23 Oh yeah...Pirvan's wife came from a marine Merchant Noble familiy or something like that, right?
#16
zombiegleemax
Sep 13, 2003 22:46:34 D'oh! I meant Knights of the Crown.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 09, 2003 23:59:49	Dragonlance on the High Seas... Without cannon, how would you capture the thrill of naval combat? The ballistae, catapult and arbalest seem to either deal significantly less damage or are far too inaccurate to use effectively at sea. How do others deal with this or are Naval battles limited to rams and boarding parties? Arandur
#2 talinthas Sep 10, 2003 0:10:59	Magic, my friend =) remember the short story about Sturm and his mother coming to solace from solamnia? They have a cool magic rope thing. Also, who needs cannons when you have a 6th level or higher sorceror? FIREBALL!
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 10, 2003 0:34:00	hmmm, how in the hell did I not see that one coming...;) Yeah but not every ship can have a wizard of High Sorcery upon it (OK I'll grant things are a little different in AoM with sorcerors and all) especially since I'm playing during the Chaos War. I didn't think that there would be a sufficient amount of Wizards to go around. I was thinking more along the lines of the Minotaur pirating vessels and the Sea barbarians... Arandur
#4 jonesy Sep 10, 2003 5:03:32	The ballistae, catapult and arbalest seem to either deal significantly less damage or are far too inaccurate to use effectively at sea. Which is probably why they were so rarely used in the real world. The Romans were probably the most experienced with them, and their primary use for such weapons was siege against coastal towns (and they rarely even got to fire them as the simple sight of a Roman frigate arming catapults was usually enough). Even after the invention of cannons mounted on ships were heavy weapons little more then close combat weapons in naval warfare. Now in Dragonlance I'd say that pretty much the only ones to regularly use them on ships would be the minotaurs. Wizards and sorcerors are far more versatile and effective (and cost-effective as you can take a ship without damage to it with sleep spells or similar).
#5 zombiegleemax Sep 10, 2003 6:11:20	Remember that most ship to ship combats in any "pre-cannon" era was about capturing the ship as much as doing away with the crew. So weapons that caused huge amounts of damage were actually a bad thing. So, on Krynn, I'd say it depends on the crew of the ship. If you're talking about Minotaur pirates I'd suggest archers. They would be used to clear the deck for a fast boarding action and flaming arrows could be used to destroy sails to, in effect, destroy the ship (but without actually damaging too much of the vessel). Sea barbarians would probably use the same tactic but with more spears and less arrows...and lots more boarding. But as for real "ship to ship" combat I'd just use the ballistae. It's a bit more acurate and quite a bit more damaging in a D&D game than it ever was in the real world. Of course, you could always have that one mad gnome ship with cannons. ;)
#6 zombiegleemax Sep 10, 2003 11:42:08	From ancient to medivel times most ship to ship and fleet to fleet actions mirrored battles on land. The sailors guided the ship but the soldiers did the fighting as the ships of both sides smashed together, boarding each others ships like they were floating forts that could move. Until the cannon, ship "killer" weapons were never taken seriously as ships were tough to sink. A ship, even a wooden one, are harder to sink then most of you think. Besides it takes alot of money and manpower to build and run a ship, so it helps to capture an enemy ship to add to your own fleet. Much the presige of capturing an enemy fortress. It wasn't until the English used cannon to pound away at the Spannish Armada, rather then get in to close a risk a boarding action and being overwhelmed by the superior numbers of the Spannish crews and soldiers, that cannon showed they're value. Cannon have more range then most ballista or catapult. Magic and gnome "inventions" and certain sea monsters made sea warfare on Krynn a three dimensional affair. To it stands to reason that wizards, sorcerors, mystics and cleric play a role, but not a center stage overwhelming "do all the work" role on the High Seas. On a side note: To increase the power and accuracy of the cannons a fleet would form into a "line" of battle and blast away at the enemy "line." Hense the name "ship-of-the-line." They would fire from afar and inflict as much damage as possible by taking and then closing to either board or finish the enemy off.
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 10, 2003 13:38:51	My favorite ship to ship weapon ever: The under the water line bronze ram Take no prisoners! That and I'd assume any fairly successful pirate would invest in a wand of lightning bolts or at least a small catapult of burning pitch.
#8 brimstone Sep 10, 2003 13:48:43	Well, the minotaurs of Night of Blood weild catapults on their ships with great accuracy. So did the ogres (and presumably the elves...since the boats were stolen) from the Icewall Trilogy.
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 10, 2003 16:43:33	Wasn't it Par-Salian that called himself a sea mage (before becoming the head of the white order and later the WoHS that is) I may be mistaken. But I remember reading that and thinking how cool it would be to be sailing and cast spells to control wind and water, storms, ect. :D
#10 brimstone Sep 10, 2003 16:48:30	Originally posted by Slapstick_80 Wasn't it Par-Salian that called himself a sea mage Nope, that was Dumbar Mastermate (or Mastermane). He was Par-Salian's replacement.
#11 zombiegleemax Sep 11, 2003 20:42:41	Duh!!! I new it was something around that time. Thanks for clarifying, I thought it was a dark-skinned guy and all the mental images of Par Salian is this old white guy. hehe :D Still seems like a cool idea tho.
#12 zombiegleemax Sep 11, 2003 23:20:04	Read the book Knights of Solamnia. This has some very good examples of naval combat.
#13 brimstone Sep 12, 2003 11:26:40	Originally posted by Jacen Solo 5007 Read the book Knights of Solamnia. This has some very good examples of naval combat. Um...there is no book by that name. Which one are you talking about?
#14 talinthas Sep 12, 2003 11:29:31	i think he means the pirvan the wayward series.
#15 brimstone Sep 12, 2003 12:04:23	Oh yeah...Pirvan's wife came from a marine Merchant Noble familiy or something like that, right?
#16 zombiegleemax Sep 13, 2003 22:46:34	D'oh! I meant Knights of the Crown.