SJ Classes - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

SJ Classes

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Dragonhelm
Sep 10, 2003 10:31:56 I wanted to continue a line of thought from the thread on doing SJ in a non-D&D d20 rules system.

Let's talk about classes. I know that the preference for SJ is to use D&D as a rules system, and that's fine. However, I don't believe D&D classes truly fit the setting the best.

Take the druid and ranger for example. They're tied to the wilderness. While they may have some use in SJ, they come across to me as being very out of place.

I think I would rather see a revised class list for a Spelljammer game.

I have two thoughts on this.

1. Use Star Wars classes (with some modification). Drop the Force-using classes, and replace them with appropriate spellcaster classes (wizard, sorcerer, cleric).

2. Revise the class list. Drop the barbarian, ranger, and druid (and maybe bard). Add in a mariner and a noble, and maybe an explorer of some sort as well.

Also, what about psionic classes? I know at first it doesn't seem to fit, but psionics does lend itself to space-type games. Maybe worth a shot?

Thoughts?
#2
zombiegleemax
Sep 10, 2003 10:49:11 I only have to add two classes to make my campaign work.

One was a marine: a fighter with 4 SP/level and a expanded skill list. I slowed the bonus feats to 1/3 levels instead of 1/2 levels.

and one was the engineer: rogue w/o backstab, but a couple of ship related abilities to balance it out.

I have used all of the classes (both PHB and DMG) as NPCs, but I have had to switch some of the skills around from time-to-time.
#3
nightdruid
Sep 10, 2003 12:33:32 Well, I'm not really sure. Some classes kinda fit, some kinda don't. All could probably fit if you took a hammer to them...;)

Maybe rename/rework some classes into SJ-like archtypes. Some SJ archtypes could be: Sailor, Marine, Pirate, Officer, Savage Native, Merchant, Enlightened Mage(?), Crusader, Missionary Priest, Engineer/Tinker, Ambassador, Privateer, Noble Rake (charismatic, rapier-wielding, Musketeer-wantabe), Musketeer (specialized guard), Mercenary.

Just some thoughts. Of course, you could use basic D&D classes for most, or just make a whole new game via OGL or soemthing.
#4
Dragonhelm
Sep 10, 2003 13:04:33
Originally posted by Nightdruid
Of course, you could use basic D&D classes for most, or just make a whole new game via OGL or soemthing.

I hate to say it, but I almost feel like I should come up with my own fantasy space setting.

Back in the day, when I first discovered SJ, it was so new and wonderful to me. It was new, fresh, and different. I was also young and new to D&D at the time, and so the presentation of it didn't bother me.

Now that I'm older, my perceptions have changed. I'm looking for something "meatier". I still love the concept of Spelljammer, but I'm looking for a setting worthy of that concept.

SJ comes across to me as a concept without a setting. Oh, sure, there are crystal spheres to visit, but there is not one primary setting.

I keep thinking some redefinition would help (i.e. classes), but then again, we saw how a lot of fans took Spider Moon.

Okay, I'm rambling at this point. I apologize, I'm just feeling frustrated with the setting. Please don't get me wrong. I love Spelljammer. I'm just not sure if I like SJ the way it is or not.

Anyhoo, back to classes.
#5
nightdruid
Sep 10, 2003 13:39:29 Well, the lure of "starting over" does appeal to me in some ways, to divorce SJ from standard classes and such :D But anyways, what's really frustraiting you about SJ? The setting, rules, classes? Is there something you could pinpoint?
#6
zombiegleemax
Sep 10, 2003 14:00:31 have you seen the astromundi cluster boxed set? It was a very good background for a campaign. Basic premise is that by the time the characters start playing the 3 worlds that was in the sphere have been destroyed, so the entire sphere is filled with astreroids. Survivors of the cataclysims restarted their lives and empires amung the various chunks of rock that was left. The starting races are fairly simplisict, but are easily upgraded

You have the Thoric (viking clones), Antilians (roman clones), calidian (yiddish clones), Varan (asian clones), Mindflayers (same as in the original box set). With such little write-up, it was easy to flesh them out to something usable.

but this is way off-topic, sorry.
#7
Dragonhelm
Sep 10, 2003 14:20:38
Originally posted by Nightdruid
Well, the lure of "starting over" does appeal to me in some ways, to divorce SJ from standard classes and such :D But anyways, what's really frustraiting you about SJ? The setting, rules, classes? Is there something you could pinpoint?

I'm not exactly sure.

Part of it is rules. I really wish there were a single PDF file for basic SJ rules. I mean, I have bits here and there, but this is no single 3e sourcebook that is readily available. I know, I can mix and match all I want, and that's fine, but I wish there were something more.

Part of that is classes, as I don't think D&D classes quite fit.

The setting sort of gets me too. There isn't much in the way of backstory. There isn't any primary setting. You've got things like Realmspace that are attached to existing worlds, but there isn't much in the way of a central setting.

*sigh*

I dunno. I just seem to be rambling of late. Really, if I wanted to run a 3e SJ game, I have Spider Moon, the sites, and Airships. That's all I really need.

You know, sometimes I think about writing up my own SJ campaign book. What I worry about is that if I put something like this on the web, SJ fans won't go for it. I mean, some of my ideas are not in line with classic SJ. Plus, I know how much work this would entail, and I'm not sure I want to do it.

Anyway, I apologize guys. I've got a tremendous headache right now that just isn't going away.

Now where's my hat...? ;)
#8
nightdruid
Sep 10, 2003 19:00:50
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
I'm not exactly sure.

Hmmm, tis a quandry, and one that's not easily solved without tons of hard work. Really, I think rules are the least of the problem...a good setting requires tons and tons of work.

You know, sometimes I think about writing up my own SJ campaign book. What I worry about is that if I put something like this on the web, SJ fans won't go for it. I mean, some of my ideas are not in line with classic SJ. Plus, I know how much work this would entail, and I'm not sure I want to do it.

Wow...you know what? I had the same thoughts, too, at one time. Want to know when that was? Right before I posted Lionheart and Twilitespace. I was honestly shocked at how well they were both received. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dragonhelm Sep 10, 2003 10:31:56	I wanted to continue a line of thought from the thread on doing SJ in a non-D&D d20 rules system. Let's talk about classes. I know that the preference for SJ is to use D&D as a rules system, and that's fine. However, I don't believe D&D classes truly fit the setting the best. Take the druid and ranger for example. They're tied to the wilderness. While they may have some use in SJ, they come across to me as being very out of place. I think I would rather see a revised class list for a Spelljammer game. I have two thoughts on this. 1. Use Star Wars classes (with some modification). Drop the Force-using classes, and replace them with appropriate spellcaster classes (wizard, sorcerer, cleric). 2. Revise the class list. Drop the barbarian, ranger, and druid (and maybe bard). Add in a mariner and a noble, and maybe an explorer of some sort as well. Also, what about psionic classes? I know at first it doesn't seem to fit, but psionics does lend itself to space-type games. Maybe worth a shot? Thoughts?
#2 zombiegleemax Sep 10, 2003 10:49:11	I only have to add two classes to make my campaign work. One was a marine: a fighter with 4 SP/level and a expanded skill list. I slowed the bonus feats to 1/3 levels instead of 1/2 levels. and one was the engineer: rogue w/o backstab, but a couple of ship related abilities to balance it out. I have used all of the classes (both PHB and DMG) as NPCs, but I have had to switch some of the skills around from time-to-time.
#3 nightdruid Sep 10, 2003 12:33:32	Well, I'm not really sure. Some classes kinda fit, some kinda don't. All could probably fit if you took a hammer to them...;) Maybe rename/rework some classes into SJ-like archtypes. Some SJ archtypes could be: Sailor, Marine, Pirate, Officer, Savage Native, Merchant, Enlightened Mage(?), Crusader, Missionary Priest, Engineer/Tinker, Ambassador, Privateer, Noble Rake (charismatic, rapier-wielding, Musketeer-wantabe), Musketeer (specialized guard), Mercenary. Just some thoughts. Of course, you could use basic D&D classes for most, or just make a whole new game via OGL or soemthing.
#4 Dragonhelm Sep 10, 2003 13:04:33	Originally posted by Nightdruid Of course, you could use basic D&D classes for most, or just make a whole new game via OGL or soemthing. I hate to say it, but I almost feel like I should come up with my own fantasy space setting. Back in the day, when I first discovered SJ, it was so new and wonderful to me. It was new, fresh, and different. I was also young and new to D&D at the time, and so the presentation of it didn't bother me. Now that I'm older, my perceptions have changed. I'm looking for something "meatier". I still love the concept of Spelljammer, but I'm looking for a setting worthy of that concept. SJ comes across to me as a concept without a setting. Oh, sure, there are crystal spheres to visit, but there is not one primary setting. I keep thinking some redefinition would help (i.e. classes), but then again, we saw how a lot of fans took Spider Moon. Okay, I'm rambling at this point. I apologize, I'm just feeling frustrated with the setting. Please don't get me wrong. I love Spelljammer. I'm just not sure if I like SJ the way it is or not. Anyhoo, back to classes.
#5 nightdruid Sep 10, 2003 13:39:29	Well, the lure of "starting over" does appeal to me in some ways, to divorce SJ from standard classes and such :D But anyways, what's really frustraiting you about SJ? The setting, rules, classes? Is there something you could pinpoint?
#6 zombiegleemax Sep 10, 2003 14:00:31	have you seen the astromundi cluster boxed set? It was a very good background for a campaign. Basic premise is that by the time the characters start playing the 3 worlds that was in the sphere have been destroyed, so the entire sphere is filled with astreroids. Survivors of the cataclysims restarted their lives and empires amung the various chunks of rock that was left. The starting races are fairly simplisict, but are easily upgraded You have the Thoric (viking clones), Antilians (roman clones), calidian (yiddish clones), Varan (asian clones), Mindflayers (same as in the original box set). With such little write-up, it was easy to flesh them out to something usable. but this is way off-topic, sorry.
#7 Dragonhelm Sep 10, 2003 14:20:38	Originally posted by Nightdruid Well, the lure of "starting over" does appeal to me in some ways, to divorce SJ from standard classes and such :D But anyways, what's really frustraiting you about SJ? The setting, rules, classes? Is there something you could pinpoint? I'm not exactly sure. Part of it is rules. I really wish there were a single PDF file for basic SJ rules. I mean, I have bits here and there, but this is no single 3e sourcebook that is readily available. I know, I can mix and match all I want, and that's fine, but I wish there were something more. Part of that is classes, as I don't think D&D classes quite fit. The setting sort of gets me too. There isn't much in the way of backstory. There isn't any primary setting. You've got things like Realmspace that are attached to existing worlds, but there isn't much in the way of a central setting. sigh I dunno. I just seem to be rambling of late. Really, if I wanted to run a 3e SJ game, I have Spider Moon, the sites, and Airships. That's all I really need. You know, sometimes I think about writing up my own SJ campaign book. What I worry about is that if I put something like this on the web, SJ fans won't go for it. I mean, some of my ideas are not in line with classic SJ. Plus, I know how much work this would entail, and I'm not sure I want to do it. Anyway, I apologize guys. I've got a tremendous headache right now that just isn't going away. Now where's my hat...? ;)
#8 nightdruid Sep 10, 2003 19:00:50	Originally posted by Dragonhelm I'm not exactly sure. Hmmm, tis a quandry, and one that's not easily solved without tons of hard work. Really, I think rules are the least of the problem...a good setting requires tons and tons of work. You know, sometimes I think about writing up my own SJ campaign book. What I worry about is that if I put something like this on the web, SJ fans won't go for it. I mean, some of my ideas are not in line with classic SJ. Plus, I know how much work this would entail, and I'm not sure I want to do it. Wow...you know what? I had the same thoughts, too, at one time. Want to know when that was? Right before I posted Lionheart and Twilitespace. I was honestly shocked at how well they were both received. :D