Modrons need "heal" or "mend/repair"? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Modrons need "heal" or "mend/repair"?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
saurstalk
Sep 11, 2003 17:09:07 I'm drafting up a Modron Druid for a Planescape adventure and was wondering whether Cure spells will do him/it any good. Given the nature of Modrons, are "heal" spells inappropriate? Rather, would mend and repair spells be more suited?
#2
sildatorak
Sep 11, 2003 17:29:14 In 2e, I know, cure wounds spells would work on modrons, but most of the time it didn't matter because they wouldn't work on extraplanar beings, and how often are PCs going to heal a modron on Mechanus? The 3e for the healing spells got rid of that, IIRC, so I'd say they'd work.
#3
zombiegleemax
Sep 11, 2003 17:52:30 Mend and repair spells would not function, IMO, because the modrons are not considered constructs.
#4
saurstalk
Sep 11, 2003 18:22:04
Originally posted by Sildatorak
In 2e, I know, cure wounds spells would work on modrons, but most of the time it didn't matter because they wouldn't work on extraplanar beings, and how often are PCs going to heal a modron on Mechanus? The 3e for the healing spells got rid of that, IIRC, so I'd say they'd work.

The PCs needn't go to Mechanus. After the Modron was struck by a random bolt of lightning that jolted through a quirky portal between Limbo and Mechanus, the Modron began to develop a curiosity in the underlying order of things and found that his exploration was curbed by remaining in Mechanus. Following a period of strategic planning, he decided that the best first step toward exploring the Natural Order would be in the Beastlands. He located a portal and went to the Beastlands. There he met a troop of gnomish druids who took an immediate fascination in them. He found their logic and understanding of the natural order as a good first step, and the roll of a druid as the appropriate path for him to take in his process of investigation, evaluation and analysis of the natural order. However, at one point, he decided it was time to move on and learn more. So he left. As is, PCs may encounter him anywhere, depending on what decisions he makes and what localities he decides to investigate. I.e., he's a roving druid bent on gaining an academic foundation / understanding of the order beneath all the apparent chaos of nature. One side effect through his adventures has been his dwindling rigidity in thought construction. He still possesses the mind of a modron, but time has allowed him to work around less rigid / analytical concepts and interactions in the world around him. Granted, to any Joe on the streets, he'll seem to be a walking law-abiding information processor, but to Modrons, he's a hippy outcast from the Plane Mechanus.

BTW, as a druid, I've pictured his weapon of choice being that of a scythe. However, I noticed that scythes are not mentioned as weapons allowed for druids. I don't understand why. Scythes, like sickles, carry the agriculture underpinnings that appear to tie into druidic weaponry. And sickles are permitted. Is this perhaps an oversight by WotC? Can you think of a good reason for me not to house-rule scythes as druidic weapons? Again, scythes make perfect sense to me.
#5
moogle001
Sep 11, 2003 23:02:09 Rogue modrons heal normally from cure spells as is.
#6
sildatorak
Sep 12, 2003 1:04:07
Originally posted by Saurstalk
The PCs needn't go to Mechanus.

Sorry I was unclear. I didn't mean that they would have to go to mechanus to find a modron to heal, I meant that by 2e rules, a modron could not be healed by cure spells outside of mechanus. Moogle001 is much wiser than me in the ways of 3e (I have only played it a wee bit) particularly in the planescape domain, so just go with what he says.
#7
zombiegleemax
Sep 12, 2003 3:21:40 Druids aren't proficient with scythes and such because from a damage point of view they are a bit overpowered. Most druidic weapons do 1d6, and the spear does 1d8 damage, while a scythe does 2d4.
having said that, there is nothing wrong with the modron spending a feat to get martial weapon proficiency so he can wield the scythe, or have him wield a sicle or spear that simply looks like a scythe. (or a scythe that funcions like a spear, whatever honks your horn)
#8
saurstalk
Sep 12, 2003 9:24:52
Originally posted by puk
Druids aren't proficient with scythes and such because from a damage point of view they are a bit overpowered. Most druidic weapons do 1d6, and the spear does 1d8 damage, while a scythe does 2d4.
having said that, there is nothing wrong with the modron spending a feat to get martial weapon proficiency so he can wield the scythe, or have him wield a sicle or spear that simply looks like a scythe. (or a scythe that funcions like a spear, whatever honks your horn)

I may spend a feat on weapon proficiency just to even him out. Or I may simply "house rule" proficiency of scythes. (Afterall, they aren't even exotic weapons!) I see some of your logic, but for the fact that 1d8 and 2d4 aren't all that different.
#9
wyvern76
Sep 15, 2003 0:33:56
Originally posted by puk
Druids aren't proficient with scythes and such because from a damage point of view they are a bit overpowered. Most druidic weapons do 1d6, and the spear does 1d8 damage, while a scythe does 2d4.

Of course it does more damage; it's a two-handed weapon. It's not overpowered any more than a greatsword is. My impression is that sickles are an allowed weapon for druids not just because they're agricultural implements, but because of a specific historical connection (druids used specially consecrated sickles to cut mistletoe, or something like that). However, I see no reason why you shouldn't house-rule scythes as an allowed weapon too if that's what you want.

As for modrons, I would say that their metallic parts are a natural, organic part of their body, like an armadillo's shell.

Wyvern
#10
zombiegleemax
Sep 15, 2003 4:42:49 2d4 is not such a long way from 1d8, true. The average damage for the spear is 4.5, while the average damage for a scythe is 5.0

the crit multiplier of the scythe is x4, which is better than any other melee weapon, and on par with the pike (which only does 1d4 damage). The spear only has a crit multiplier of x2.

basically, what I'm trying to do is find an explanation why the scythe is a melee weapon. The reason is fairly simple, it has a better damage range and a better crit multiplier than simple weapons, and thus belongs on the melee weapon list.

The druid only has access to a selection of simple weapons. (sicle, club, spear etc) and no martial weapons.

btw, saurstalk, I like the modron's background. Pretty... unusual
#11
saurstalk
Sep 15, 2003 11:01:31
Originally posted by puk
btw, saurstalk, I like the modron's background. Pretty... unusual

Thanks. I try to go for off-beat characters. Some of my favorites:

1. Archibold. Awakened Giant Cockroack CN Sor 7 w/ a Clockwork Cat Familiar (because he kept eating the living ones!). The cockroach can't recall when he was awakened, but has since made it his duty in life to create a church that follows the Lady of Pain. (It doesn't seem to faze him that he's spent most of his life in her mazes because of this.)

2. Ferg Rath. Half Orc LG Fighter/Cleric of Tyr. Grew up in Athkatla at Helm's Temple. When he came of age, he converted to Tyr and moved to that temple. He was always protected against discrimination in his upbringing and has learned to despise half-orcs and orcs alike. (He prefers to align himself with his human heritage.) He's a mighty crusader for Tyr who has no tolerance for orc-blooded beasts or miscreants. (He also dual wields two bastard swords.)

3. Gaerthaer Thimbleswift. Strongheart Halfling CG Bbn 8 lycanthrope (wolf). A fierce "pygmy" warrior who protects his people zealously. When stricken by lycanthropy, he contracted the disease and has yet to rid himself of the ailment. Fortunately, he's managed to exist between two full moons as a lycanthrope without a forced change. During this time, he's done much on behalf of his people (and rapidly leveled up) - pumping as many skill points into Control Shape as possible. If he can control his disease, all the better. If not ....

4. Jewdett E'let. Drow CN Nec / Rog. This drow is as eccentric as they come. He's an adopted member of a large powerful drow family that's factioned into Eilistraee devotees and Lolth worshippers. He prefers to avoid taking sides. Jewdett's most notable eccentricity is his connection with his "familiar" - a dead cat, permanently held in stasis that he constantly "chats" with. He swears that the cat is sentient and that it shares tidbits of knowledge with him. No one is yet able to divine the accuracy of these claims. But interestingly enough, conferences with the cat offer him a bit of luck in skill rolls, saves and otherwise that often defy explanation.
#12
wyvern76
Sep 16, 2003 22:27:46
Originally posted by puk
basically, what I'm trying to do is find an explanation why the scythe is a melee weapon. The reason is fairly simple, it has a better damage range and a better crit multiplier than simple weapons, and thus belongs on the melee weapon list.

I think the explanation is simple enough; I can't imagine the scythe is an easy weapon to handle. Therefore it takes more training to use it effectively as a weapon. Of course, your other points also hold true. A while ago I ran across an interesting page that showed how you can compare the weapons in the PHB by assigning point values to damage, crit range and multiplier, and so on. Unfortunately I can't find the page now.

Wyvern
#13
zombiegleemax
Sep 17, 2003 1:25:19 Its one of the things i like about the whole countdown to 3.5e they did on the D&D website and in dragon magazine, as well as the behnid the screen sections in the core books. Lets you look in the kitchen, explain why rules are the way they are.
Makes rules more understandable and reduces the need for houserules.
#14
sildatorak
Sep 17, 2003 11:01:52 Personally, I don't think they should even include the scythe as a weapon. I've seen scythes IRL and I can't imagine them being used effectively in combat. Yeah, they have a nasty looking blade, but the cutting edge doesn't line up with the most powerful stroke you can make. And it isn't like it is a finesse weapon like a dagger or sword that you could use to poke at weak points in armor; the damn thing is just too unwieldy. I personally think that it should be a weapon that you can't become proficient in (thereby simulating the unlikeliness of hitting anything), taking a proficiency in scythe is like taking the feat "martial weapon: chair." Why the heck would you?
#15
zombiegleemax
Sep 30, 2003 1:12:52 Actually, the Drunken Master PrC (from Sword and Fist) and the Infiltrator advanced class from d20 modern gain proficiency with improvised weapons.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 saurstalk Sep 11, 2003 17:09:07	I'm drafting up a Modron Druid for a Planescape adventure and was wondering whether Cure spells will do him/it any good. Given the nature of Modrons, are "heal" spells inappropriate? Rather, would mend and repair spells be more suited?
#2 sildatorak Sep 11, 2003 17:29:14	In 2e, I know, cure wounds spells would work on modrons, but most of the time it didn't matter because they wouldn't work on extraplanar beings, and how often are PCs going to heal a modron on Mechanus? The 3e for the healing spells got rid of that, IIRC, so I'd say they'd work.
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 11, 2003 17:52:30	Mend and repair spells would not function, IMO, because the modrons are not considered constructs.
#4 saurstalk Sep 11, 2003 18:22:04	Originally posted by Sildatorak In 2e, I know, cure wounds spells would work on modrons, but most of the time it didn't matter because they wouldn't work on extraplanar beings, and how often are PCs going to heal a modron on Mechanus? The 3e for the healing spells got rid of that, IIRC, so I'd say they'd work. The PCs needn't go to Mechanus. After the Modron was struck by a random bolt of lightning that jolted through a quirky portal between Limbo and Mechanus, the Modron began to develop a curiosity in the underlying order of things and found that his exploration was curbed by remaining in Mechanus. Following a period of strategic planning, he decided that the best first step toward exploring the Natural Order would be in the Beastlands. He located a portal and went to the Beastlands. There he met a troop of gnomish druids who took an immediate fascination in them. He found their logic and understanding of the natural order as a good first step, and the roll of a druid as the appropriate path for him to take in his process of investigation, evaluation and analysis of the natural order. However, at one point, he decided it was time to move on and learn more. So he left. As is, PCs may encounter him anywhere, depending on what decisions he makes and what localities he decides to investigate. I.e., he's a roving druid bent on gaining an academic foundation / understanding of the order beneath all the apparent chaos of nature. One side effect through his adventures has been his dwindling rigidity in thought construction. He still possesses the mind of a modron, but time has allowed him to work around less rigid / analytical concepts and interactions in the world around him. Granted, to any Joe on the streets, he'll seem to be a walking law-abiding information processor, but to Modrons, he's a hippy outcast from the Plane Mechanus. BTW, as a druid, I've pictured his weapon of choice being that of a scythe. However, I noticed that scythes are not mentioned as weapons allowed for druids. I don't understand why. Scythes, like sickles, carry the agriculture underpinnings that appear to tie into druidic weaponry. And sickles are permitted. Is this perhaps an oversight by WotC? Can you think of a good reason for me not to house-rule scythes as druidic weapons? Again, scythes make perfect sense to me.
#5 moogle001 Sep 11, 2003 23:02:09	Rogue modrons heal normally from cure spells as is.
#6 sildatorak Sep 12, 2003 1:04:07	Originally posted by Saurstalk The PCs needn't go to Mechanus. Sorry I was unclear. I didn't mean that they would have to go to mechanus to find a modron to heal, I meant that by 2e rules, a modron could not be healed by cure spells outside of mechanus. Moogle001 is much wiser than me in the ways of 3e (I have only played it a wee bit) particularly in the planescape domain, so just go with what he says.
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 12, 2003 3:21:40	Druids aren't proficient with scythes and such because from a damage point of view they are a bit overpowered. Most druidic weapons do 1d6, and the spear does 1d8 damage, while a scythe does 2d4. having said that, there is nothing wrong with the modron spending a feat to get martial weapon proficiency so he can wield the scythe, or have him wield a sicle or spear that simply looks like a scythe. (or a scythe that funcions like a spear, whatever honks your horn)
#8 saurstalk Sep 12, 2003 9:24:52	Originally posted by puk Druids aren't proficient with scythes and such because from a damage point of view they are a bit overpowered. Most druidic weapons do 1d6, and the spear does 1d8 damage, while a scythe does 2d4. having said that, there is nothing wrong with the modron spending a feat to get martial weapon proficiency so he can wield the scythe, or have him wield a sicle or spear that simply looks like a scythe. (or a scythe that funcions like a spear, whatever honks your horn) I may spend a feat on weapon proficiency just to even him out. Or I may simply "house rule" proficiency of scythes. (Afterall, they aren't even exotic weapons!) I see some of your logic, but for the fact that 1d8 and 2d4 aren't all that different.
#9 wyvern76 Sep 15, 2003 0:33:56	Originally posted by puk Druids aren't proficient with scythes and such because from a damage point of view they are a bit overpowered. Most druidic weapons do 1d6, and the spear does 1d8 damage, while a scythe does 2d4. Of course it does more damage; it's a two-handed weapon. It's not overpowered any more than a greatsword is. My impression is that sickles are an allowed weapon for druids not just because they're agricultural implements, but because of a specific historical connection (druids used specially consecrated sickles to cut mistletoe, or something like that). However, I see no reason why you shouldn't house-rule scythes as an allowed weapon too if that's what you want. As for modrons, I would say that their metallic parts are a natural, organic part of their body, like an armadillo's shell. Wyvern
#10 zombiegleemax Sep 15, 2003 4:42:49	2d4 is not such a long way from 1d8, true. The average damage for the spear is 4.5, while the average damage for a scythe is 5.0 the crit multiplier of the scythe is x4, which is better than any other melee weapon, and on par with the pike (which only does 1d4 damage). The spear only has a crit multiplier of x2. basically, what I'm trying to do is find an explanation why the scythe is a melee weapon. The reason is fairly simple, it has a better damage range and a better crit multiplier than simple weapons, and thus belongs on the melee weapon list. The druid only has access to a selection of simple weapons. (sicle, club, spear etc) and no martial weapons. btw, saurstalk, I like the modron's background. Pretty... unusual
#11 saurstalk Sep 15, 2003 11:01:31	Originally posted by puk btw, saurstalk, I like the modron's background. Pretty... unusual Thanks. I try to go for off-beat characters. Some of my favorites: 1. Archibold. Awakened Giant Cockroack CN Sor 7 w/ a Clockwork Cat Familiar (because he kept eating the living ones!). The cockroach can't recall when he was awakened, but has since made it his duty in life to create a church that follows the Lady of Pain. (It doesn't seem to faze him that he's spent most of his life in her mazes because of this.) 2. Ferg Rath. Half Orc LG Fighter/Cleric of Tyr. Grew up in Athkatla at Helm's Temple. When he came of age, he converted to Tyr and moved to that temple. He was always protected against discrimination in his upbringing and has learned to despise half-orcs and orcs alike. (He prefers to align himself with his human heritage.) He's a mighty crusader for Tyr who has no tolerance for orc-blooded beasts or miscreants. (He also dual wields two bastard swords.) 3. Gaerthaer Thimbleswift. Strongheart Halfling CG Bbn 8 lycanthrope (wolf). A fierce "pygmy" warrior who protects his people zealously. When stricken by lycanthropy, he contracted the disease and has yet to rid himself of the ailment. Fortunately, he's managed to exist between two full moons as a lycanthrope without a forced change. During this time, he's done much on behalf of his people (and rapidly leveled up) - pumping as many skill points into Control Shape as possible. If he can control his disease, all the better. If not .... 4. Jewdett E'let. Drow CN Nec / Rog. This drow is as eccentric as they come. He's an adopted member of a large powerful drow family that's factioned into Eilistraee devotees and Lolth worshippers. He prefers to avoid taking sides. Jewdett's most notable eccentricity is his connection with his "familiar" - a dead cat, permanently held in stasis that he constantly "chats" with. He swears that the cat is sentient and that it shares tidbits of knowledge with him. No one is yet able to divine the accuracy of these claims. But interestingly enough, conferences with the cat offer him a bit of luck in skill rolls, saves and otherwise that often defy explanation.
#12 wyvern76 Sep 16, 2003 22:27:46	Originally posted by puk basically, what I'm trying to do is find an explanation why the scythe is a melee weapon. The reason is fairly simple, it has a better damage range and a better crit multiplier than simple weapons, and thus belongs on the melee weapon list. I think the explanation is simple enough; I can't imagine the scythe is an easy weapon to handle. Therefore it takes more training to use it effectively as a weapon. Of course, your other points also hold true. A while ago I ran across an interesting page that showed how you can compare the weapons in the PHB by assigning point values to damage, crit range and multiplier, and so on. Unfortunately I can't find the page now. Wyvern
#13 zombiegleemax Sep 17, 2003 1:25:19	Its one of the things i like about the whole countdown to 3.5e they did on the D&D website and in dragon magazine, as well as the behnid the screen sections in the core books. Lets you look in the kitchen, explain why rules are the way they are. Makes rules more understandable and reduces the need for houserules.
#14 sildatorak Sep 17, 2003 11:01:52	Personally, I don't think they should even include the scythe as a weapon. I've seen scythes IRL and I can't imagine them being used effectively in combat. Yeah, they have a nasty looking blade, but the cutting edge doesn't line up with the most powerful stroke you can make. And it isn't like it is a finesse weapon like a dagger or sword that you could use to poke at weak points in armor; the damn thing is just too unwieldy. I personally think that it should be a weapon that you can't become proficient in (thereby simulating the unlikeliness of hitting anything), taking a proficiency in scythe is like taking the feat "martial weapon: chair." Why the heck would you?
#15 zombiegleemax Sep 30, 2003 1:12:52	Actually, the Drunken Master PrC (from Sword and Fist) and the Infiltrator advanced class from d20 modern gain proficiency with improvised weapons.