Despite the hands off way many people treat other races saying things like "Its up to the DM" Orcs is the one thign we have come to consensus on. No Orcs!
There was one Half-Orc... once... but that was a Kender tale. Now, shoo!
Where is my Plasma Rifle!
*Rosisha points to the entrance of Krynn: "Abandon Hope all ye Orcs who enter here." and above that in tiny small print with a fully automatic gatling gun tracking all who enter: "No Orcs. Any orcs who enter will be shot, survivors will be shot again."*
Rosisha
Orcs: "Grr gash grr! We are FR orcs! We fall like hay in front of adventurers! In fact sometimes they just forget we exist cause we can't do anything to their uber power!"
Draconains: "Worship our coolness" They say as they ignore the orcs and beat up on some of the Gods and Megamagicians.
Rosisha
FR Minotaur: "AAARRRRRHH! SNORT! GRUNT! KILL!"
DL Minotaur: "I am so embarrassed.... and what is wrong with his feet?"
Luintari: "And you think you're cool because you shave your head?"
Thayian Wizard: "PREPARE TO DIE! MUHAHAHAHA" Casts fireball.
Luintari: *yawn* "So, you come here often?"
TW: "WHAT?! Why didn't you die like all the God's that we kill around here all the time anyway?"
Luintari: "Boy, you really are a piece of work aren't you?" *Snaps finger draining all magic from TW then knocks him aside with a wave of her hand* "Now, where are some muffins?"
Rosisha
And why do you hate the Realms? Your posts pretty much indicate that you do.
And no orcs in Krynn.
(I am fairly sure, 90% sure, ...) it was stated that there are no Orcs on Krynn. (come to think of it, the passage was dealing with importing characters from other campaigns and mentioned Half-orcs).
course those are both 1e sources.
Originally posted by Lobos
Actually, it is quite possible that orcs do exist on Krynn. Although the books do not mention orcs whatsoever, they are a subterrainian race and most of the caves beneath Krynn's surface remain heavily unexplored. Of course, this is just in theory, but they can exist.
In anyone's home game anything can exist. This is true.
But the Campaign setting states and has always stated that orcs do not exist. They will never "officially" be accidentally discovered, they will never be an aberration of the passing of Chaos, or an experiment gone awry. Any references to orcs in Dragonlance books will be a typo or the result of an uninformed author...
unless they are actually stating that orcs don't exist... :D
"un-officially" anyone is free to do whatever they want to. ;)
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer
Actually, Rosisha, Lunitari would have no authority over the Red Wizard's magic. Lunitari doesn't control the Weave.
And why do you hate the Realms? Your posts pretty much indicate that you do.
And no orcs in Krynn.
On the other hand, since Krynn doesn't have the Weave, the Thayan is already in a heap of trouble.
This brings up an interesting question... I'll make a new topic for it.
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer
And why do you hate the Realms? Your posts pretty much indicate that you do.
That is a question that you could ask many people on this forum. I cannot answer for Rosisha but I'll try and give SOME insight.
Alot of us are DL groupies. We like Dragonlance. Alot. We follow every word, listen to everything Mathew L. martin says, and believe it utterly even when it doesn't make sense. :D
Forgotten Realms is completely different from Dragonlance in many stylistic ways. Dragonlance is low- to mid-level magic. There are very few wizards, VERY few magic shops, and no crazy things like "Mage Fairs", etc. The Realms are the opposite. Every peasent and his MOMMA wield magic into battle. Everytime you turn around someone's magicking something out of thin air. Its a difference in style and since many of us really like the DL style, the FR style is very bothersome.
Secondly, Dragonlance is low-power. There have always been every few epic level characters. Characters that cross the level 30 barrier are unheard of! This offers a kind of sensical feeling to the world. People above level thirty are god-like. What business do so many people have to exist? It really doesn't make sense for people SO powerful that they can go have a chat with a god everytime they want to be so common. In the Realms the opposite is true. With Chosens of HooHa, El-fonion, and all those other NPCs of ultimate power its really really hard to feel like your making a difference in the world. Someone was trying to write an "Incursion" campaign in the FR on one of the boards around here and everyone tore him apart, because Elminster would never allow the Gith to take over Toril. It sickened me. What does it matter what the PCs do when Elminster is just a phone call away? I dare you to ask Dalamar for a favor, I dare you! hell, even if its in his best interest I doubt he'd help because he doesn't do that.
Many people are just sick of Drow and the underdark. Enough said.
There is also a kind of jealousy that burns around here since WotC proclaimed that they were dropping the Dragonlance line. The line that many people loved was being dropped (along with alot of other peoples' favorite lines) and only the land of Greymist and the Setting of the Realms would be kept. It was outrageous, agregious, a slap in the face. Not very happy./
There are probably other reasons, but I hope I've shed the light on why I and many others hate the FR.
Sometimes I like a distinct flavor of RP storylines. This is when I play Dragonlance. It has a distinct feel and a well-ish defined world that focuses on certain elements that can't be run over by something else that the DM just decides to orchestrate on a whim (at least not by a good DM).
Sometimes I like something with so many flavors that there is no way a single ingredient can be tasted. Everything flows into everything else in complete chaos that makes things oddly consistant. Wave of detail vs. new detail comes by and anything can happen at any moment. This is why I like FR.
Personally, I like Krynn more often than Toril. But sometimes a change in setting helps me come back to Krynn later with a refreshed feeling and look. The only thing I found frustrating with Toril is that there is SO much that I found breaking into the world and understanding the dynamic of how most things relate to everything else to be very tricky. Dragonlance, although highly detailed, was easier for me to understand the overall time flow of history. But that's my own issue. After all, I can't say, "FR s*cks because I'm too stupid to follow it." :D
But seriously, for me, the difference between FR and DL can be seen in the FR and DL campaigns I play in (DMed by the same guy). In FR, there is non-stop action, combat all the time, plenty of magical items, jokes, laughing, and a general light-hearted spirit. I can't remember the other PCs' names, the NPCs' names or much of the plot. But, I have a great time when we play! However, if my monk died, I wouldn't feel too bad.
In the DL campaign, the characters are together because of friendship and family bonds. We've only been in combat twice, and both times the characters were really afraid for their lives. The wizard of our group, being a young noble kid, didn't act AT ALL in the latest fight: he figured the knights would do the fighting, he wasn't trained for this. I know every PC's name, and every NPC's name as well. I'm well aware of the plot, and in fact, I'm very curious as to if my knight's sister (his idol) will live (as she seems to be a very well thought-of character) or die (to give room for my PC to grow). There are laughs, particularly from the gnome cleric, but they are the kind of comic relief that Tas would provide, not lame "I attack the darkness" jokes that take everyone away from the mood of the game.
So, for me, both campaigns can provide a pleasant afternoon, but only DL provides a good roleplaying experience.
So there are some overpowered annoying wizards, walking around there. But take those away and the setting is not so bad.
And about draconians and wizards going to FR and kicking butt: Well that is a rather strange thing if you consider DL to be low/medium power and FR high power. Doesn't add up does it?
Now I also really like orcs. However there is IMO absolutely no place for them in Dragonlance, so they should stay away.
Now I'll go back to my own homebrew, half stolen, mishmash world that is cooller than DL and FR put together. (at least I am able to fool my players into believing that line of crap)
On the other hand, DL also has an ammazing storyline, but one that allows plenty of room for other groups to jump in. The epic wars (War of the Lance, Chaos War, War of Souls) were written in such a way that you can almost feel other adventuring groups out there, doing a little bit at a time to save the world.
Example: Chaos War, lets follow Steel and Palin in Dragons of Autumn Twilight, and watch them destroy Chaos (with Tas' help of course!). HOWEVER, at the same time we have the Doom Brigade, and they are doing stuff. And you have stories of the Gods enchanting weapons all over the world. How easy it would be to set up a campaign where your characters are contacted by their God and told to go fight this incarnation of Chaos. You hunt the sack of poop down and proceed to beat him back to the nothingness. You could save a city, a town, a castle, a group of plainsmen, whatever, but you can do something major within the scope of the world.
The problem with FR is that you really can't do this. I had one group of characters in an FR campaign try to assassinate Elminstir to keep him from interferring with small pc groups. They called themselves the "Low Power Adventurers Guild, Cabel, and Enforcement Wing." They just got sick of all the high powered people and lack of epic adventuring available. Because, you couldn't have a life or death adventure for the world without some over powered dorky wizard stepping in.
On top of this, FR seems to encourage a "Lets all be lvl 752904579284759234759247395274395274952749057 characters and have all super uber abilities!"
What ever happened to a nice simple lvl 1 game where you and your character develop over time and become something?! Granted, this is more of a problem with the 3.* rules, but FR, in my opinion, encourages it. Its the only way to compete in the world.
Ok. This was long. Sorry!
Rosisha, DL fan since 1991
Originally posted by Asta Kask
Ok. So, no orcs. I suppose I can live without them. It's not as if they provide a profound roleplaying experience anyway. Still...I have to wonder. If orcs aren't allowwd becuase they are "nasty, brutish and short", how come there are GOBLINS?
where did you read that?
goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears are present ... there are Draconians too. I'm betting that the designers wanted to do without them is all.
However, I do have the feeling that Paladine did model Fizban off of the 'befuddled old mage' that Gandalf pretended to be. [You can't tell me Paladine never read 'Lord of the Rings'.]
Paladine closes up 'Return of the King': "I'm impressed. How come you've never produced anything this good?"
Branchala: "SHUT UP!"
Originally posted by adamww
Is there not a 1/2 ORC character in the new Campaign book, in the description of Silvanesti?? (from memory I don't have the book with me)
Already addressed and declared an error.
Matthew L. Martin, somewhat bewildered by l33t angel's comments. :-)
It wouldn't due to alienate you before I've gotten close enough to drain you of all energy.
>Does anyone know what's the deal?
Orcs are one of a select group of specific group of creatures that don’t officially exist on Ansalon (DLCS p. 212; TOTL p.2).
As a DM I miss them as the traditional low-level sword fodder they are. However, I got lots of goblins to take up the traditional role of Orcs in my campaign. But the real low-level (in CR) creature the PCs are going to learn to hate in time are Hobgoblins, as they are a mayor race in my campaign.
George