Question about playing an Irda - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Question about playing an Irda

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
coyote_skyheart
Sep 16, 2003 9:41:32 Question about playing an Irda character

I'm trying to figure out the extent of their shapeshifting abilities.
Can they assume the form of draconians or their ogre brethen? Both are described as 'dragon' and 'giant' respectively, so I'm not sure. It would be nice if they could.

Also, I was wondering if this was possible. I can see how the Irda can assume various identities if it wants to. Would it be possible, roleplay wise, for an Irda wizard to not specialize in a field of magic and gain admittance to the school of wizardry as 'three' personnas, taking the test once as a red robe, once as a white robe, and once as a black robe? Each time disguised as a different unique individual.

I think it sounds like fun, but I'm wondering if it would be possible. Improbable I already know, but impossible?
#2
kalanth
Sep 16, 2003 11:13:18 Yes, the Irda can take the shape of the aformentioned ogres and Draconians. I think (don't have the book in front of me) that the rule states that the shape must be humanoid and can only be a maximum of one size class larger and one size class smaller.

As for the second half, I would say yes, and treat the character (stat wise) as a generalist wizard. However, I am not sure how one would justify the bonuses, and it would be very likely that the character would be found out. Afterall, wizards are smart enough to notice that when Bob is here, Joe and Dan never are, but when Dan shows up, Bob and Joe are not around. You would be playing with fire in this situation.
#3
zombiegleemax
Sep 16, 2003 11:43:16 For your second question, while it does sound like fun, and your Irda can certainly try, I think the Irda would swiftly be found out. The Conclave (especially the Heads of the Orders) are fond of using detect thoughts and other mind-reading spells when conversing with potential applicants. Worse, even if the Irda has some spell or magic item that foils the divinations, the wizards will quickly get suspicious as to how you got that spell or item, and furthermore, why you feel the need for it.
You really can't hide anything from a wizard that is determined to discover it. :D
#4
zombiegleemax
Sep 16, 2003 12:28:53 And what happens at a Wizard' Conclave! Only one can come so the other two are renegades?!

And you cannot test UNDER a given robe. the Test feels what's in your heart and gives you the robe that best fits you. tricking the Test is most likely a very bad idea. And I don't think anyone will want to undergo the horrors of the Test anymore than once.
#5
zombiegleemax
Sep 16, 2003 20:12:17 Don't you choose which robe by your alignment tho? I was under the impression, aside from gaming material, that magic users chose what path they would follow. I vividly remember this happening with Palin and Raistlin both.
#6
zombiegleemax
Sep 16, 2003 20:16:23 But sometimes you don't really know your alignment. Alignment follows action. If in the dangers of the test the LG Wizard reveals his true colors by sacrificing another for his survival then he is gifted the Black Robes and is most likely deep down inside evil. The test shows you your true alignment. It teaches you about the nature of your very soul.
#7
zombiegleemax
Sep 16, 2003 20:16:46 Well I say you choose your path yes and no. You are who you are and so while you are choosing your pather your path is choosing you as well. If you are on the line between white and red then you will choose during the test.

I can't see an Irda being ever able to fool the test cause the test is who you are. You can't fool yourself no matter how hard you may try.

Haha, Angel you posted as I was posting. I agree with you totally.
#8
zombiegleemax
Sep 16, 2003 20:31:04 Yeah, you can't fool the test man, though I give your character credit for wanting to go through the whole experience three times! I think the conclave ould know you are an irda right away... there is no jerkin' around the conclave guy, that's why they are the conclave...
#9
zombiegleemax
Sep 16, 2003 21:13:24 Hehehe, if you had deceit in your heart when you take the test the first time I don't think you'd have to worry about the second test. You'd be one dead Irda!
#10
zombiegleemax
Sep 17, 2003 8:54:57 Actualy, you would probably just be a black robed Irda. =)
#11
coyote_skyheart
Sep 18, 2003 0:18:59 Thanks for the responses so far!

More questions!

It must be a typo, because the creature types for minotaur and half-ogre are not listed in the DLCS. Are they humanoid or monstrous humanoid or giant or their own category?

The irda shape-changing ability specifies humanoid forms only, so I think it means it can't change to monstrous humanoids, or giants, or dragon types. I don't know what they could do in the novels. That means they can't change into centaurs, or ogres (ironically), or draconians, and undetermined about the other two.

So that begs the question... what large creature is humanoid that the Irda can shapechange into?

I've decided my Irda will begin as a non-specialized wizard and assume specialization when he takes the test of high sorcery, just once, which from other posts I'm led to believe they can do. That or just declare allegience. I was lucky and rolled max for intelligence! Spell DC's will be incredible.
#12
cam_banks
Sep 18, 2003 8:46:28
Originally posted by Coyote Skyheart

It must be a typo, because the creature types for minotaur and half-ogre are not listed in the DLCS. Are they humanoid or monstrous humanoid or giant or their own category?

Minotaurs of Krynn have the "humanoid (minotaur)" creature type. Half-ogres have the "giant" creature type.

Cheers,
Cam
#13
zombiegleemax
Sep 18, 2003 12:20:18 where does it say that half-ogres are giant type? For one, they're not big enough to be a giant. To be of the giant type, you have to be at least Large-size humanoid, according to the MM. I think they're just humanoids.
#14
cam_banks
Sep 18, 2003 13:12:03
Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
where does it say that half-ogres are giant type? For one, they're not big enough to be a giant. To be of the giant type, you have to be at least Large-size humanoid, according to the MM. I think they're just humanoids.

The Monster Manual 3.5 glossary states that they are "usually at least of Large size" but this doesn't rule out Medium sized creatures of the giant subtype. Given that the half-ogre has an ogre parent, which belongs to the giant type, that carries forward to the offspring (half-elves, half-orcs, etc are all humanoids because both sets of parents are humanoid).

Cheers,
Cam
#15
zombiegleemax
Sep 18, 2003 14:33:01 not that i'm arguing with you, and hope you don't take this badly, but then why was the half-ogre not given the giant type in it's description like the ogre? the giant type is strong enough on it's own to warrent another +1 to the ecl. Immunity to charm/hold person spells, as well as other things that effect only humanoids, as well as insta darkvision...
#16
zombiegleemax
Sep 19, 2003 8:59:42 anyone else find it odd that Irda cant shift into ogres? I mean... its just odd. ODD!
#17
zombiegleemax
Sep 19, 2003 9:18:46 I think it's more ofa game balance issue tha a role plaing one. Granting the Irda a +10 to str and the such is a tad over the top.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 coyote_skyheart Sep 16, 2003 9:41:32	Question about playing an Irda character I'm trying to figure out the extent of their shapeshifting abilities. Can they assume the form of draconians or their ogre brethen? Both are described as 'dragon' and 'giant' respectively, so I'm not sure. It would be nice if they could. Also, I was wondering if this was possible. I can see how the Irda can assume various identities if it wants to. Would it be possible, roleplay wise, for an Irda wizard to not specialize in a field of magic and gain admittance to the school of wizardry as 'three' personnas, taking the test once as a red robe, once as a white robe, and once as a black robe? Each time disguised as a different unique individual. I think it sounds like fun, but I'm wondering if it would be possible. Improbable I already know, but impossible?
#2 kalanth Sep 16, 2003 11:13:18	Yes, the Irda can take the shape of the aformentioned ogres and Draconians. I think (don't have the book in front of me) that the rule states that the shape must be humanoid and can only be a maximum of one size class larger and one size class smaller. As for the second half, I would say yes, and treat the character (stat wise) as a generalist wizard. However, I am not sure how one would justify the bonuses, and it would be very likely that the character would be found out. Afterall, wizards are smart enough to notice that when Bob is here, Joe and Dan never are, but when Dan shows up, Bob and Joe are not around. You would be playing with fire in this situation.
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 16, 2003 11:43:16	For your second question, while it does sound like fun, and your Irda can certainly try, I think the Irda would swiftly be found out. The Conclave (especially the Heads of the Orders) are fond of using detect thoughts and other mind-reading spells when conversing with potential applicants. Worse, even if the Irda has some spell or magic item that foils the divinations, the wizards will quickly get suspicious as to how you got that spell or item, and furthermore, why you feel the need for it. You really can't hide anything from a wizard that is determined to discover it. :D
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 16, 2003 12:28:53	And what happens at a Wizard' Conclave! Only one can come so the other two are renegades?! And you cannot test UNDER a given robe. the Test feels what's in your heart and gives you the robe that best fits you. tricking the Test is most likely a very bad idea. And I don't think anyone will want to undergo the horrors of the Test anymore than once.
#5 zombiegleemax Sep 16, 2003 20:12:17	Don't you choose which robe by your alignment tho? I was under the impression, aside from gaming material, that magic users chose what path they would follow. I vividly remember this happening with Palin and Raistlin both.
#6 zombiegleemax Sep 16, 2003 20:16:23	But sometimes you don't really know your alignment. Alignment follows action. If in the dangers of the test the LG Wizard reveals his true colors by sacrificing another for his survival then he is gifted the Black Robes and is most likely deep down inside evil. The test shows you your true alignment. It teaches you about the nature of your very soul.
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 16, 2003 20:16:46	Well I say you choose your path yes and no. You are who you are and so while you are choosing your pather your path is choosing you as well. If you are on the line between white and red then you will choose during the test. I can't see an Irda being ever able to fool the test cause the test is who you are. You can't fool yourself no matter how hard you may try. Haha, Angel you posted as I was posting. I agree with you totally.
#8 zombiegleemax Sep 16, 2003 20:31:04	Yeah, you can't fool the test man, though I give your character credit for wanting to go through the whole experience three times! I think the conclave ould know you are an irda right away... there is no jerkin' around the conclave guy, that's why they are the conclave...
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 16, 2003 21:13:24	Hehehe, if you had deceit in your heart when you take the test the first time I don't think you'd have to worry about the second test. You'd be one dead Irda!
#10 zombiegleemax Sep 17, 2003 8:54:57	Actualy, you would probably just be a black robed Irda. =)
#11 coyote_skyheart Sep 18, 2003 0:18:59	Thanks for the responses so far! More questions! It must be a typo, because the creature types for minotaur and half-ogre are not listed in the DLCS. Are they humanoid or monstrous humanoid or giant or their own category? The irda shape-changing ability specifies humanoid forms only, so I think it means it can't change to monstrous humanoids, or giants, or dragon types. I don't know what they could do in the novels. That means they can't change into centaurs, or ogres (ironically), or draconians, and undetermined about the other two. So that begs the question... what large creature is humanoid that the Irda can shapechange into? I've decided my Irda will begin as a non-specialized wizard and assume specialization when he takes the test of high sorcery, just once, which from other posts I'm led to believe they can do. That or just declare allegience. I was lucky and rolled max for intelligence! Spell DC's will be incredible.
#12 cam_banks Sep 18, 2003 8:46:28	Originally posted by Coyote Skyheart It must be a typo, because the creature types for minotaur and half-ogre are not listed in the DLCS. Are they humanoid or monstrous humanoid or giant or their own category? Minotaurs of Krynn have the "humanoid (minotaur)" creature type. Half-ogres have the "giant" creature type. Cheers, Cam
#13 zombiegleemax Sep 18, 2003 12:20:18	where does it say that half-ogres are giant type? For one, they're not big enough to be a giant. To be of the giant type, you have to be at least Large-size humanoid, according to the MM. I think they're just humanoids.
#14 cam_banks Sep 18, 2003 13:12:03	Originally posted by Magus_Extreme where does it say that half-ogres are giant type? For one, they're not big enough to be a giant. To be of the giant type, you have to be at least Large-size humanoid, according to the MM. I think they're just humanoids. The Monster Manual 3.5 glossary states that they are "usually at least of Large size" but this doesn't rule out Medium sized creatures of the giant subtype. Given that the half-ogre has an ogre parent, which belongs to the giant type, that carries forward to the offspring (half-elves, half-orcs, etc are all humanoids because both sets of parents are humanoid). Cheers, Cam
#15 zombiegleemax Sep 18, 2003 14:33:01	not that i'm arguing with you, and hope you don't take this badly, but then why was the half-ogre not given the giant type in it's description like the ogre? the giant type is strong enough on it's own to warrent another +1 to the ecl. Immunity to charm/hold person spells, as well as other things that effect only humanoids, as well as insta darkvision...
#16 zombiegleemax Sep 19, 2003 8:59:42	anyone else find it odd that Irda cant shift into ogres? I mean... its just odd. ODD!
#17 zombiegleemax Sep 19, 2003 9:18:46	I think it's more ofa game balance issue tha a role plaing one. Granting the Irda a +10 to str and the such is a tad over the top.