I don't think I missed any.
Paladins are considered non-standard, though the gods of good may choose a champion from time to time to combat evil.
The mystic and the noble are in the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. The mariner is in the Age of Mortals Campaign Companion.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion...
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Okay...here is a rant for all to listen to. For those who don't have the new books, just sit back....this is for those who have the books but dont seem to read them. PALADIN'S EXIST ON KRYNN! THEY ARE SIMPLY NONSTANDARD(RARE)!!! Ok...really, come on. The sidebar quite plainly states that.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion...
Excuse the hell outta me sunshine. Yes I do have both the Dragonlance campaign setting, and Age of Mortals book. I quote from the Dragonlance campaign book, page 52:
"Paladins
The knights of Solamnia take the place of knightly champions of good in a DRAGONLANCE campaign. so normally paladin characters are unavailable. Paladins may be allowed at the Dungeon Master's discretion, however as rare champions of one of the good deities...."
The original post asked what the CORE classes were. The knight orders are part of the core classes for Dragonlance and say so in the same sidebar you decided to rant about and generally take the place of what would be a paladin in a generic D&D game. Paladins are NOT core characters. "Ok...really, come on. The sidebar quite plainly states that.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion..."
Oh, and little advice, don't be trite and rude, I'm generally a very jovial easy going person, but I don't respond well to ignorance.
Originally posted by frostdawn
Oh, and little advice, don't be trite and rude, I'm generally a very jovial easy going person, but I don't respond well to ignorance.
Okay, guys, let's ease up.
I know that we're all of a different mind on Paladins in DL. I think most people think of them typically as the knightly types, so that was one reason for their non-standard designation. Also, they're limited on what gods they can serve (mainly Paladine and Kiri-Jolith). Divine champions for all the gods may be more in order.
Despite this, the paladin doesn't have to be what we stereotypically view them as. They can be kagonesti spirit-warriors (which works nicely for the spirit horse), or kender champions of Fizban, etc. etc.
Originally posted by frostdawn
And where comes the idea that Paladins must be knightly Champions, knightly like european style knights?
He could be a soldier, from havy inf to archer.
A Horsearcher, an enforcer of the law....
and btw the knights are prestige classes.
DH you've just made my day. My god, what a great idea. kender Champions of Fizban. That'd be the coolest character.
He'd probably wear Wizard Robes and a hat. Wield a Staff. SHEER AWESOME!
Sorry again for my rant.
Originally posted by L33t Angel
DH you've just made my day. My god, what a great idea. kender Champions of Fizban. That'd be the coolest character.
He'd probably wear Wizard Robes and a hat. Wield a Staff. SHEER AWESOME!
Check out Kipper's Kencyclopedia Kender Handbook. He's got great kender materials in there, including a group of kender knights. They're awesome, let me tell you.
Frostdawn - All's cool. We'll just put that aside, and move on with the discussion.
Each DM will take the materials presented in the DLCS, and make house rules on them. Some will use paladins, others will not. The same can be said of monks, bards, or any other class.
Originally posted by waqqif
And where comes the idea that Paladins must be knightly Champions, knightly like european style knights?
He could be a soldier, from havy inf to archer.
A Horsearcher, an enforcer of the law....
and btw the knights are prestige classes.
Knightly only in so much as that is what they are called. Knights of the Thorn and Sword are essentially magic user/clerics. Legionnaires can be just about anyone. A knight can go into archery, horseback fighting, be a foot soldier or whatever if I'm understanding this correctly. So a knight isn't as limited as they might sound.
As to the knight prestige. I originally posted thinking of the generic D&D core classes, paladin of which was one of them. I mentioned knights since they are usually how paladins are interpreted in the Dragonlance genre.
That having been said, I also overlooked the prestige class in order to cover the old core class of paladin. Good catch waqqif. :embarrass ;)
-It states that KoS are fulfilling the niche of the knightly pally.
And that the KoS are modeled after the european knight is clear.
Look at the Knight of the crown
Strength of Honor
Armored Mobility
The knights of the sword are not clerics.
There is no initiation test of spirituality.
They have not the duty to be spiritual guides, religious advisors or missionarys in their measure.They get theri spells to be better soldiers.
but nothing in their List seemd them to made them Archers or Horse Archers for example.
Originally posted by waqqif
@Frostdwan
-It states that KoS are fulfilling the niche of the knightly pally.
And that the KoS are modeled after the european knight is clear.
Look at the Knight of the crown
Strength of Honor
Armored Mobility
The knights of the sword are not clerics.
There is no initiation test of spirituality.
They have not the duty to be spiritual guides, religious advisors or missionarys in their measure.They get theri spells to be better soldiers.
but nothing in their List seemd them to made them Archers or Horse Archers for example.
That's true, but you can still persue different niches to match the attack style of a character. So archery, horseback fighting, jousting, being a foot soldier etc can still be persued. The bonuses and abilities granted at different experience levels are geared more towards the typical armored sword and shield style knight that fights shoulder to shoulder with their compatriots, but I don't think that should be the sum totality of what they are and do. You can always choose abilities to flesh out a character anyway you want. Given, the knight's code is still there for that character (lest they are expelled from the order), but they can persue different fighting styles as long as they stay true to the measure.
The spirituality is more a form of dedication to the virtues of truth, honor and justice. By becoming a squire of the crown, the character demonstrates a certain level of spirituality by swearing to the code and the ideals set forth by the gods and Vinas Solamnus. True, initiation into the order of the Sword is not always as demanding as beign accepted into say one of the orders of high sorcery where a character potentially puts their life on the line for the sake of a test. They still have to present to the high order of knights proof that they have upheld the knightly virtues, travelled a certain distance, etc etc. The DM can make entry into the order of the sword as difficult or easy as they want.
The knights of the sword are not as effective as clerics, but then again, paladins aren't as effective as clerics either. They are more like cleric light. Fewer calories, less divine power.
This took longer than i want.
I mean`t more the spiritual duties and responsabilties of a cleric/priest.
A missionary, spiritual and religious guide and advisor.
And I see nothing in the Knights of the sword, that made this duties for them Natural.
They are more spiritula warriors or better soldiers who have their powers and spells from Kiri-
Jolith to be better soldiers in war and battle.
The problem is not if the test of knighthood is more demanding than that of the Wo HS, but that this test incorporates nothing of the responsiabilitise of a cleric.
Also i don`t see Pally as a kind of ckleiric, i see them as divine champions.
Originally posted by waqqif
@Frostdwan
I mean`t more the spiritual duties and responsabilties of a cleric/priest.
A missionary, spiritual and religious guide and advisor.
And I see nothing in the Knights of the sword, that made this duties for them Natural.
They are more spiritula warriors or better soldiers who have their powers and spells from Kiri-
Jolith to be better soldiers in war and battle.
The problem is not if the test of knighthood is more demanding than that of the Wo HS, but that this test incorporates nothing of the responsiabilitise of a cleric.
Also i don`t see Pally as a kind of ckleiric, i see them as divine champions.
Ah, I think we're just looking at the role a paladin versus a KOS plays in the world around them differently. I was looking at it from the perspective of powers and potential. Yeah, I agree paladins seem more of the free ranging divine champions. The KOS' tend to be more soldierly. On rare occasions they are granted missions or duties that are not typical 'knight duty', but by and large they are rather stoic and set in their ways.
The other thing that gets me is I don't recall in the novels any of the knight orders having any divine powers at all. They tolerated clerics of Paladine and Mishakal, mostly didn't trust wizards. Any magic they needed or wanted came from a cleric if at all. Ah well, either I'm interpreting things wrong, or there were some liberties taken when fleshing out the knight orders for role playing purposes.
Actually... there´s a paladin in Dragonlance:
Austan Gavinus! the first and only Minotaur Paladin.
He became a paladin after taking care of an ansalonian cleric short before he died. He learned of Paladine and chose to serve Him as his champion in the distant land of Taladas.
(In other words he´s a fighter/paladin)
Originally posted by frostdawn
Ah, I think we're just looking at the role a paladin versus a KOS plays in the world around them differently. I was looking at it from the perspective of powers and potential. Yeah, I agree paladins seem more of the free ranging divine champions. The KOS' tend to be more soldierly. On rare occasions they are granted missions or duties that are not typical 'knight duty', but by and large they are rather stoic and set in their ways.
The other thing that gets me is I don't recall in the novels any of the knight orders having any divine powers at all. They tolerated clerics of Paladine and Mishakal, mostly didn't trust wizards. Any magic they needed or wanted came from a cleric if at all. Ah well, either I'm interpreting things wrong, or there were some liberties taken when fleshing out the knight orders for role playing purposes.
Dragons of Summer Flame had Knights of the Sword casting healing spells, IIRC.
Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
Dragons of Summer Flame had Knights of the Sword casting healing spells, IIRC.
Ah, so it is a case of my misinterpreting/ forgetting. :D
Thanks for setting the record straight...
Originally posted by frostdawn
Excuse the hell outta me sunshine. Yes I do have both the Dragonlance campaign setting, and Age of Mortals book. I quote from the Dragonlance campaign book, page 52:
"Paladins
The knights of Solamnia take the place of knightly champions of good in a DRAGONLANCE campaign. so normally paladin characters are unavailable. Paladins may be allowed at the Dungeon Master's discretion, however as rare champions of one of the good deities...."
The original post asked what the CORE classes were. The knight orders are part of the core classes for Dragonlance and say so in the same sidebar you decided to rant about and generally take the place of what would be a paladin in a generic D&D game. Paladins are NOT core characters. "Ok...really, come on. The sidebar quite plainly states that.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion..."
Oh, and little advice, don't be trite and rude, I'm generally a very jovial easy going person, but I don't respond well to ignorance.
:heehee No.....I wasn't singling you out, as a matter of fact, I misread and thought you were one of those I was telling to sit back as they didnt have those books....I can see where you are right, but I can also see where I am.....Paladin's are definitely nonstandard, so yes...they might not be considered a core class, however as the D&D game goes, they are a core class that is available, but rare....which is how I looked at it. I get carried away sometimes.....DL is a passion for me...literally.....check out some of my other posts......there are some really nasty gems....I never mean for people to take offense to them, I just have an abrasive way sometimes....Sorry about that. Anyhoo.....back to the program.....
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When in the Abyss did we start doing commercials anyway?
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Long live the Lance!
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
:heehee No.....I wasn't singling you out, as a matter of fact, I misread and thought you were one of those I was telling to sit back as they didnt have those books....I can see where you are right, but I can also see where I am.....Paladin's are definitely nonstandard, so yes...they might not be considered a core class, however as the D&D game goes, they are a core class that is available, but rare....which is how I looked at it. I get carried away sometimes.....DL is a passion for me...literally.....check out some of my other posts......there are some really nasty gems....I never mean for people to take offense to them, I just have an abrasive way sometimes....Sorry about that. Anyhoo.....back to the program.....
No prob, and sorry about going off on you. I went on the defensive after your response. No hard feelings.
Originally posted by frostdawn
Ah, so it is a case of my misinterpreting/ forgetting. :D
Thanks for setting the record straight...
NP. As Dragonhelm has mentioned, the books aren't really all that great for roleplay rules references, as they tend to do whatever they want (no way Palin was a level 18 wizard with 19 int by the time of fighting chaos....). The games came first before the books, and knights of the sword being semi-clerics have always been that way. *Shrug* ask dragonhelm, he can explain it better.