The SAGA Dragonlance materials did a lot in regards to fleshing out the Dragonlance world. Geography especially was covered.
My personal favorite part of SAGA was all the various roles, which helped to expand on character "archetypes".
My personal preference is D&D, but I do use the SAGA materials quite often for reference.
Speaking of which, has anyone here ever tried Vampire LARP? Well, I stand corrected; SAGA is not the worse system out there, since White Wolf did use paper-rock-scissor and called it “game mechanic”.
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
I my opinion the SAGA System for any RPG is as bad as using a dice-less role-playing system. Players feel more comfortable when they can ascertain their chances of succeeding an action base on what their character’s abilities are, not by a random factor set by a GM.
How does SAGA's resolution mechanic differ that much for d20's "roll + modifier vs. a DM-set, often-secret DC"? :-)
I like SAGA. It's clean, elegant, and while it's lacking in some regards (combat lacks some of the tactical rigor of d20 or other games, and characters can be tough to differentiate), I found it a very adaptable and enjoyable system.
EDIT: From a business standpoint, it was a gamble, and one that apparently didn't pay off. I think TSR was shooting for the novel readers and gamers disenchanted with or intimdated by AD&D. Note that AD&D DL had already tanked, perhaps more than once--there was about a two-year gap between DLA and _Time of the Dragons_, IIRC, and I don't think any game products were published in the interim. But apparently TSR didn't have the insight into the 'network effect' that WotC has used and leveraged with the d20 System and the OGL.
Matthew L. Martin
Yes! YES! - he said with zealous devotion.
I [i]LOVE[/i] SAGA! I love it with an almost supernatural devotion! I love it in ways that are villainized by the masses! I love it in ways that are illegal in all but 3 states (Alabama, Alabama, and Alasksa... no, wait, sorry, I meant Alabama).
I played SAGA for like... yeah, 5 years or so and loved every minute. While it could definitely use a tune-up, it was a marvelous system and I thought it captured the feel of Dragonlance very well. Why, so in love with SAGA am I that when 3rd Ed. came out I never even considered playing lest my Fate Decks get dusty and neglected.
That all changed eventually when I found out how great the D20 system is. Of course, I still love SAGA (and free-form RPG's in general which is why I'm writing a full campaign setting for the Window), but one of my favorite aspects of Saga was how malleable it was. Or rather is. It is malleable. I mean, the rules were so simple, you could take any idea or concept and put in SAGA and 9 times out of 10, it would work flawlessly. I've never had faster combat in a game, and never, ever, [i]EVER[/i] seen or used a better magtic system.
I hate to say it, but D&D magic just stinks! No matter what D20 game I'm playing, I'm always tempted to use something akin to SAGA magic systems in it (a la my old 5th Age work on the Nexus).
Great topic. Let's sit around like old fogies and get whipped on whiskey and sing about the good old days of SAGA!
*hiccup*
Peace all!
Gee... no one has replied to this yet. Figures! The heathens hate SAGA! They always have! They never understood it's brilliant simplicity, it's blazing speed and ease of play, or it's incredible magic shyshtem...
Just one more ship - no, sip - of whiskey...
And another thing... what was so wrong with the Date Feck? I mean, the Fate Deck? All thoshe pretty cards with pretty pictures... you used to be able to... aww, just a little more from the jug...
... you used to be able to choose which card you were gonna lay down... and then you could lay it down... but not in the bad way. No, you can't do that in D20, can ya whippersnapper? Eh? EH?!?!
...ahhh... you understand me, whiskey, doncha... doncha pal?
GOds! The magic! It was so... so... so magical and zoomy! You could just make up spells and there were the rulshe, and WHAMMO! Instant KAZAMMO's! Just pick a little from this school... a little from this one over here - no, not that one. That's the cat's. That one. Yeah...
*hiccup*
...there. That one. Move, cat. Don't be hisshing at me... you little... I oughtta...
You loved SAGA, whiskey jug. I know you did... we'll show them... you'd never lie to me, whiskey jug... we'll show them... we'll show... them... show... we'll...
*hiccup*
Oh god.
...
Where's kitty?
[/internal monologue]
Or take the Dragon Rider prestige class, as the case may be. ;)
This has been a public service announcement from Dragonlance.com.
It was inconsistent and a terrible substitute for dice.
I think some people overestimate the importance of dice in gaming.
Originally posted by silvanthalas
I think some people overestimate the importance of dice in gaming.
I don’t overestimate the importance of dice in gaming. I’ve ran games without a single die role. But when you’re playing D&D you’re going to need a good, consistent system to handle combat. No matter how political or role-playing oriented your D&D game is, you will get into combat. It’s D&D.
those of you who tried it and didn't like SAGA, I wonder if you went into it with an open mind (that's such a cliche and i'm sorry). I'm not saying that you didn't but I find the arguements against SAGA to be lacking(valid, but lacking).
For those of you with different reasons for not liking SAGA, please post them, I am honestly curious.
Also, i am slowly (and i mean slowly) updating SAGA for use with a regular deck of cards and incorporating some new rules (such as feats, stolen from 3ed). Any comments or problems or insights into the SAGA would be appreciated.
Originally posted by lippshitz
i don't see how it is an inconsistent and terrible substitute for dice. when i ran a campaign a few years ago, one of the players was also involved in an Adnd game. i asked which he preferred and he said he preferred SAGA because it felt like he had more control over the outcome of actions (such as combat).
those of you who tried it and didn't like SAGA, I wonder if you went into it with an open mind (that's such a cliche and i'm sorry). I'm not saying that you didn't but I find the arguements against SAGA to be lacking(valid, but lacking).
For those of you with different reasons for not liking SAGA, please post them, I am honestly curious.
Also, i am slowly (and i mean slowly) updating SAGA for use with a regular deck of cards and incorporating some new rules (such as feats, stolen from 3ed). Any comments or problems or insights into the SAGA would be appreciated.
Oh hell yes!
I would love to hepl you design some SAGA material! I have all sorts of ideas and house rules from my days of SAGA playing as well! Let me know! I'll post some soon!
Peace!
Baron, how can you say that the resolution system is different from D&D. Both work in almost identical fashion but in differing mediums. The GM assigns a difficulty based upon their perceptions and then you as a player roll and your skill and mods to get the result. The only difference betweeen that and SAGA are that you play a card of your choice, from your hand. If your character thinks it's easy for them then he plays a low card, if not you play a high card. Just as in life, it's not always as it seems and you can choose how much effort you apply. That seems more realistic to me than a random d20 roll...
Sure, saga wasn't perfect but then again neither was 3rd edition D&D (hell just look at the Polymorph spell a personal pain in the butt for me as a GM). In my experience I have found that SAGA is more about the character than the statistics, it seemed to lend itself to a more character orientated story.
Arandur
SAGA is my favorite system, period. In fact, I took so long to reply to this thread because I was out of town DMing the 114th session in my 5-year-long SAGA campaign.
What I love about SAGA:
1. It puts all the decisions in the hands of the players. I can't tell you how many times someone in my group had a brilliant plan in AD&D or D20, but all went down the drain because of a poor roll. IMO, the randomness of the dice is cool, but can be really counter-productive to good roleplay and well-thought tactics. In the end, you always depend on a random number coming up on the die. Using SAGA rules, your capacities are, literally, in your hands. You know what you can and can't do. If you have a 7 of Shields, then you know you probably can jump through that chasm. In D20, you have to have a huge skill modifier, and, even then, you can roll a 1. Also, in SAGA, the players are the main characters. The DM doesn't roll dice or flip cards: the players do. The players have to make the decisions, beat the odds, etc.
2. It's loose enough to allow heavy tinkering, yet built solidly enough to sustain such tinkering. In D20 (or any mathematically perfetc yet airtight system), you have to have the certain feat, skill, etc to be able to perform a given action. For instance, if you want to run past an enemy, attack him, and then keep running to get out of his range, you have to have Mobility (pardon me if this is the wrong feat, but you get my meaning). This leads to each PC doing basically the same action over and over again in combat. The "Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack" fighter will always hit and run. The "Power Blow-Cleave-Great Cleave" fighter will always stand in place and deal heavy damage, etc. In SAGA, any PC can perform any action, if he has the right cards. A wizard may run past an enemy. A swashbuckler may deal heavy damage. A heavily armored paladin may tumble out of harm's way. The number of great situations this freedom had led to in my campaign is too great to count. I've had a kender save the life of a flying wizard by hitting him in the head with a hoopak shot and destabilizing him in mid-air just when a dragon was about to bite him. A mystic decapitating the leader of a tribe of gnolls and intimidating them by showing how superior he was to their leader. An elven archer imbue his arrow with a spell that destroyed one of the centers of power of the big bad guy. A warrior protect a swordswoman in her last cards (meaning, her last HP) by blocking teh attacks of five demons with his tower shield. And the list goes on and on...
3. The SAGA system pushes the players and DM towards a DL feel, instead of "regular D&D, only with Knigts of Neraka and dragon riders". This happens because of the figures on the cards. You may, instead of using the number on a card, use its figure. This makes everyone remember classic passages of the DL stories ("I have one last spell, and I want to make it a good one!" says the guy playing the wizard, as he shows his Palin Majere card) and puts the PCs in the shoes of the DL heroes, by making them perform actions analogous to the heroes' great deeds.
4. The SAGA system makes heroes of the PCs, just as it is in DL. In regular D&D, it's easy to see, in many a campaign, a 12th level character who is just an average joe to the populace, another random unknown adventurer. While this may be aproppriate for other campaign scenarios, in DL the high-level characters usually becaome heroes (or villains), very well-known by the people they save, and their deeds live for centuries in ballads. In SAGA, you don't become a 10th level character. You become a "Champion". You don't become a 18th level character. You become a "Legend". You don't become epic level. You become an "Archetype". The very rules make it so your character advances as the DL protagonists advance, not just in power, but also in renown.
5. SAGA is taylor-made for its purpose. The suits, the abilities, the whole system was made specifically with the Fifth Age in mind (you can see that the Marvel super heroes verion of SAGA is quite different from the Fifth Age version). As good as any D20 adaptation may be (and I really liked DLCS), it wasn't made specifically for DL. SAGA was.
6. Finally, for all you D20 fans: the D20 system (which I like a lot) has some elements that are heavily derived from SAGA. The whole skill modifier + roll is just a dice version of ability + card. Of course, this is not, by any means, a novel idea. But, if you think it's so bad to have the ability + card equation to make an action, you gotta hate the D20 system also. The "arbitrary number" the DM has to decide is nothing more nothing less than a DC. And you have the advantage (as I said earlier) of having a good idea if you're going to be able to make it.
So you can tell I'm a SAGA fanatic. :D I know many people will never change their minds, but I think that some were so prejudiced against SAGA when it was released that they pick any excuse to badmouth it. I'm the first one to agree that the system requires tinkering (the HP rules for NPCs is a huge aberration that makes your NPCs wimps), but SAGA still has more to offer to DL, IMO, than any other system.
PS: Some friends and I have made a generic medieval deck for SAGA (using art from TSR, Magic, etc) for our home use. It works perfectly away from Dragonlance too.
Originally posted by Dorkboy
YES! I abslolutely LOVE SAGA!
SAGA is my favorite system, period. In fact, I took so long to reply to this thread because I was out of town DMing the 114th session in my 5-year-long SAGA campaign.
What I love about SAGA:
1. It puts all the decisions in the hands of the players. I can't tell you how many times someone in my group had a brilliant plan in AD&D or D20, but all went down the drain because of a poor roll. IMO, the randomness of the dice is cool, but can be really counter-productive to good roleplay and well-thought tactics. In the end, you always depend on a random number coming up on the die. Using SAGA rules, your capacities are, literally, in your hands. You know what you can and can't do. If you have a 7 of Shields, then you know you probably can jump through that chasm. In D20, you have to have a huge skill modifier, and, even then, you can roll a 1. Also, in SAGA, the players are the main characters. The DM doesn't roll dice or flip cards: the players do. The players have to make the decisions, beat the odds, etc.
2. It's loose enough to allow heavy tinkering, yet built solidly enough to sustain such tinkering. In D20 (or any mathematically perfetc yet airtight system), you have to have the certain feat, skill, etc to be able to perform a given action. For instance, if you want to run past an enemy, attack him, and then keep running to get out of his range, you have to have Mobility (pardon me if this is the wrong feat, but you get my meaning). This leads to each PC doing basically the same action over and over again in combat. The "Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack" fighter will always hit and run. The "Power Blow-Cleave-Great Cleave" fighter will always stand in place and deal heavy damage, etc. In SAGA, any PC can perform any action, if he has the right cards. A wizard may run past an enemy. A swashbuckler may deal heavy damage. A heavily armored paladin may tumble out of harm's way. The number of great situations this freedom had led to in my campaign is too great to count. I've had a kender save the life of a flying wizard by hitting him in the head with a hoopak shot and destabilizing him in mid-air just when a dragon was about to bite him. A mystic decapitating the leader of a tribe of gnolls and intimidating them by showing how superior he was to their leader. An elven archer imbue his arrow with a spell that destroyed one of the centers of power of the big bad guy. A warrior protect a swordswoman in her last cards (meaning, her last HP) by blocking teh attacks of five demons with his tower shield. And the list goes on and on...
3. The SAGA system pushes the players and DM towards a DL feel, instead of "regular D&D, only with Knigts of Neraka and dragon riders". This happens because of the figures on the cards. You may, instead of using the number on a card, use its figure. This makes everyone remember classic passages of the DL stories ("I have one last spell, and I want to make it a good one!" says the guy playing the wizard, as he shows his Palin Majere card) and puts the PCs in the shoes of the DL heroes, by making them perform actions analogous to the heroes' great deeds.
4. The SAGA system makes heroes of the PCs, just as it is in DL. In regular D&D, it's easy to see, in many a campaign, a 12th level character who is just an average joe to the populace, another random unknown adventurer. While this may be aproppriate for other campaign scenarios, in DL the high-level characters usually becaome heroes (or villains), very well-known by the people they save, and their deeds live for centuries in ballads. In SAGA, you don't become a 10th level character. You become a "Champion". You don't become a 18th level character. You become a "Legend". You don't become epic level. You become an "Archetype". The very rules make it so your character advances as the DL protagonists advance, not just in power, but also in renown.
5. SAGA is taylor-made for its purpose. The suits, the abilities, the whole system was made specifically with the Fifth Age in mind (you can see that the Marvel super heroes verion of SAGA is quite different from the Fifth Age version). As good as any D20 adaptation may be (and I really liked DLCS), it wasn't made specifically for DL. SAGA was.
6. Finally, for all you D20 fans: the D20 system (which I like a lot) has some elements that are heavily derived from SAGA. The whole skill modifier + roll is just a dice version of ability + card. Of course, this is not, by any means, a novel idea. But, if you think it's so bad to have the ability + card equation to make an action, you gotta hate the D20 system also. The "arbitrary number" the DM has to decide is nothing more nothing less than a DC. And you have the advantage (as I said earlier) of having a good idea if you're going to be able to make it.
So you can tell I'm a SAGA fanatic. :D I know many people will never change their minds, but I think that some were so prejudiced against SAGA when it was released that they pick any excuse to badmouth it. I'm the first one to agree that the system requires tinkering (the HP rules for NPCs is a huge aberration that makes your NPCs wimps), but SAGA still has more to offer to DL, IMO, than any other system.
PS: Some friends and I have made a generic medieval deck for SAGA (using art from TSR, Magic, etc) for our home use. It works perfectly away from Dragonlance too.
Golly! More SAGA fans!
What a blessing to these boards! I'll try to post some ideas up here soon...
PEACE!
Originally posted by Rooks
Golly! More SAGA fans!
What a blessing to these boards! I'll try to post some ideas up here soon...
Good grief, man. Trim those quotes for Zivilyn's sake!
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
The SAGA System works well for Marvel Super Heroes.
Depends, are you using the Classic Marvel Super Heroes game, which had an easy, effortless 2d10 system, or the new, crappy, diceless hunk o' junk that is out now?
Personally, and I know I got into this once before, I hated the SAGA system. I do agree, the info provided on the worlds and such was outstanding, but overall, it was blah.
Personally, and I know I got into this once before, I hated the SAGA system. I do agree, the info provided on the worlds and such was outstanding, but overall, it was blah.
I'd be interested to know why you hated it and why you think it was 'blah'? Dorkboy put forward a valid argument as to the good points of SAGA. How about a refutation of those points or some areas that weren't covered by that, or other, posts?
Looking forward to your counter-argument.
Simon Collins
so i am stealing the idea of the feat system from DnD3. Now characters don't get automatic access to a school/sphere based solely on their attritube letter. Each character has to buy access with a feat and the cost is determined by the letter:
A - bonus school/sphere; 1 feat per school/sphere
B - no bonus; 1 feat per school/sphere
C - 2 feats per 1 school/sphere
D - 3 feats per 1 school/sphere
X - no access
Of course there are other things to spend feats on (both magic and combat feats). The amount of feats a character has will be equal to the number of cards in his hand. This will obviously limit the amount of feats a character can aquire so i am going to limit the number of selectable feats (for fear of convoluting the system). i haven't playtested this but it should cut down on the amount of magic being thrown around and help differentiate the characters a little more.
i'm also toying around with adding the skill system included in that SAGA handbook. that might make things a little too complex though.
well what do you guys think?
Initiative: SAGA is a little unrealitic in having the heroes and opponents always acting at the 'same time'. A better system is for the Narrator to have his own Fate Deck separate from the players'. When the need arises to know who goes first in a situation, ask the players (and make for the opponents) a straight Perception action. Highest result goes first!
More to come later...
Originally posted by lippshitz
the major problem i had when running the campaign was that all the characters had access to magic and could wipe the floor with most any NPCs.
***
well what do you guys think?
I use the skills, designed in the Saga Companion, but i added a few more skills for the list. Every hero have to choose one skill for every reputation score. He can use his skill slot for picking up a role. But he have to note on the "in training" box on the character sheet instead of a skill. (in extreme cases the GM have to be flexible anyway)
But as i mentioned, i added a few new skills for the list, and this is the schools of sorcery and the spheres of mysticism. A hero in my campaign with an A code in Spirit eg. have learned a lot of thing about mysticism, but CANNOT cast a spell, unless he pick up at least one skill. So a hero at least 6 reputation score can use 3&3 schools/spheres, and he have no any role, or any skill. He didnt learned any profession but casting spells!
An other new skill is for the barbarian cultures, that exchange the skill of Writing, and that is the Storytelling. With it the hero can use Writing based skills, eg history.
Bye, Arkozd
I also like the free form generic sorcery and Mystic rules from the SAGA game.
I think the final thing I liked about SAGA was adapting the "trump" Concept. If you had a trump card, you basically got to pick another card from the Deck. I've changed that in my game to use the "trump" concept with Dice. There's a huge bag of dice for my games, and if players want, they can pick a dice out of the bag. if it's an appropriate color, like a green die for Dexterity, or a Red die for Strength (which is really important for combat) they get to re-roll and add the results. It makes the players really crazy they need that Red Die. :-)
Originally posted by Kalanth
Depends, are you using the Classic Marvel Super Heroes game, which had an easy, effortless 2d10 system, or the new, crappy, diceless hunk o' junk that is out now?
Personally, and I know I got into this once before, I hated the SAGA system. I do agree, the info provided on the worlds and such was outstanding, but overall, it was blah.
The Classic. I agree, the new diceless version is good for paper weight only.
I just had one problem with it when I ran a SAGA campaign. The spell system is great but the linear scale for things such as the number of tragets (ie it takes +1 to affect and individual but only +4 to affect 10 people and +7 to affect 100 people) can lead to some problems if the players are really trying hard to squeeze the most damage out of the magic system.
I was running a SAGA campaign a couple of years ago. My players always joke that they are out to "break me" and this is one time where they succeeded. These two players in the group (a sorceror and a mystic) looked at their stats and compared to the sample stats for dragons and saw that they could never survive an encounter with them. So they came up with a Plan.
Then they decided to test the Plan while when they encountered a small hostile army of about 500. So instead of dealing massive damage to one target they recorrected the spell to deal moderate damage to lots of targets. Then they proceeded. The mystic raised his own casting stat. He then used this boost to increase the sorceror's reason. And then the sorceror played a high trump to cast a fireball affecting the whole army. How much damage he did I can't remember but it was enough to cripple the army.
Basically I feel that the spell system needs some tweaking. Then again some of the people I play with are very much into taking a system and seeing how wacky they can get without bending the rules.
edit: I missed a part of the plan. Added it in.
Originally posted by Granakrs
Well I for one also love Saga. and i see the DC as a variation of the action difficulty that came from Saga.
I've thought that as well.
When comparing SAGA to 3e...alot of the mechanics are similar in nature. The DC idea is almost identical to the Easy, Average, Daunting, etc. actions of the SAGA system. It really simplified things. And skills and feats are kinda like Trump bonuses.
Basically...it was very easy to slip into 3e after coming from SAGA because the two are so similar.
It's just too bad we couldn't get a more SAGA-ish sorcerer and mystic class. Ah well...time to move on, I guess.
The HP system for NPCs makes them weenies. So, instead pf considering that each NPC has HPs equal to their Physique stat, I came up with this system: I see how many cards the NPC would have (5 for Champion, 6 for Master, etc) and multiply this number by an average number, which varies according to the power of the NPC. For instance, the final big baddie in my campaign has the equivalent of 9 cards (Archetype) and each of those has a virtual value of 9 (for she is a tough cookie), resulting in 81 HP. Oh, and, players reading this: don't get your hopes up. She has means to raise her HP.
The PCs evolve little. So I came up with a "feat" system, allowing each PC to pick a trump or special ability when they went up a reputation category. This was some 2 years before d20. The power of these abilities increases as the PCs move up in power themselves. For instance, one of the first abilities available was "Body Language": the character could make a Perception action and determine a physical attribute of an NPC. Now (we are about to end the campaign, and the PCs are too powerful for my own good
) one ability available is "Zen Archery": the character adds his Perception score to any archery action.And, as for Sorcery and Mysticism being too powerful: to solve this, I simply changed the way the characters regain Spell Points. Instead of regaining all their Sps with a night's sleep, they regain 1 card worth of SP (Moons or Hearts being trump). For more powerful characters, they can add their Reason or Spirit scores to the card. The characters still can perform powerful spells if they make the right combos, but they will miss those SPs later. It's like one of my palyers says: in SAGA, Sorcery and Mysticism are more like comic books' superpowers - they begin powerful and evolve little with time. Only the character's skill really evolves.
Originally posted by Dorkboy
My main issues with SAGA are:
The HP system for NPCs makes them weenies. So, instead pf considering that each NPC has HPs equal to their Physique stat, I came up with this system: I see how many cards the NPC would have (5 for Champion, 6 for Master, etc) and multiply this number by an average number, which varies according to the power of the NPC. For instance, the final big baddie in my campaign has the equivalent of 9 cards (Archetype) and each of those has a virtual value of 9 (for she is a tough cookie), resulting in 81 HP. Oh, and, players reading this: don't get your hopes up. She has means to raise her HP.
It sounds good, but one of my reason of starting to use the Saga system, is that it has a very quick combat system.
There are only two basic kind of combat systems, the abstract and the realistic. 3E is realistic, Saga is abstract.
3E is visualise, you have to imagine that where you are before you considere your action.
In saga, - in my experience - you first make the simple action, eg. attack the opponent, than play your card. But only after that can be expressed the action - by the player or the dm.
So 3E is more strategical, and i think that a 3E character has greater variety of actions in a combat situation than in a Saga-game. But Saga gives more opportunity for the role playing.
That is why i ask that it is quick enough.
The PCs evolve little. So I came up with a "feat" system, allowing each PC to pick a trump or special ability when they went up a reputation category. This was some 2 years before d20. The power of these abilities increases as the PCs move up in power themselves. For instance, one of the first abilities available was "Body Language": the character could make a Perception action and determine a physical attribute of an NPC. Now (we are about to end the campaign, and the PCs are too powerful for my own good
As i mentioned earlier, i use the skill system of the Saga Companion. These skills are professions, and give a wide variety of trump bonuses. But i don't use small feats, traits or advantages, eg ambidexterity (i think it is in the high dex score), or grand cleave (what is in the strength). But i used to make new skills.
Zen Archery (zen? in which region?
) could be a skill, because you have to learn it for a long time, but i would use instead of it a new role.Body Language is unnecessery for me, because anybody can try to guess the atribute with a perception check, but if some one knows well the human body (or metahuman
) - because he is a trained healer or hunter, he could use this trump bonus.And, as for Sorcery and Mysticism being too powerful: to solve this, I simply changed the way the characters regain Spell Points. Instead of regaining all their Sps with a night's sleep, they regain 1 card worth of SP (Moons or Hearts being trump). For more powerful characters, they can add their Reason or Spirit scores to the card. The characters still can perform powerful spells if they make the right combos, but they will miss those SPs later. It's like one of my palyers says: in SAGA, Sorcery and Mysticism are more like comic books' superpowers - they begin powerful and evolve little with time. Only the character's skill really evolves.
Im not sure, but i think, that the official rule is that: a spellcaster get back one Spell Point every hour multipled by his hand. Rest is unnesessery. But i will maybe add to this rule that if a hero rest at least 8 hours, he can pick a card additionally, one card for mysticism, one for sorcery, (and it could be trump of course). With that SP system the heros have to use the SP-s carefully, as you mentioned.
So i prefer the simplicity of that system.
Finaly, i have to tell that i played for years with 3E, befor i even notice the Saga system. I bought the campaign setting of the fifth age 6 months ago. Until then i never playd on Krynn, because i couldnt imagine that the world could "live" with role-playing games. I loved the stories, but my favorit world was the Realms.
But everything is changing, and a desire was born in me for an other kind of games, with different atmosphere, with different rules. And it is the Saga, but only in Fifth Age.
By, Arkozd
Originally posted by Arkozd
That is why i ask that it is quick enough.
Uh, yeah, it's really quick. I only do math before the game, not during actual gameplay.
As i mentioned earlier, i use the skill system of the Saga Companion. These skills are professions, and give a wide variety of trump bonuses. But i don't use small feats, traits or advantages, eg ambidexterity (i think it is in the high dex score), or grand cleave (what is in the strength). But i used to make new skills.
Zen Archery (zen? in which region?
Body Language is unnecessery for me, because anybody can try to guess the atribute with a perception check, but if some one knows well the human body (or metahuman
I don't use Saga Companion, so, yes, my ideas may be redundant with that. As for Zen Archery: so there isn't an oriental region in Krynn. So what? Change the word "zen" by, say, "Sylvan", and you could have an ancient technique of the Kirath. Or centaurs. Or whatever. The important is the ability and roleplaying, not the wording. And, if you made it a role, then you would have the same old problem: the PCs would have a lot of power to begin with (like the Trump bonus that elves have with swords) and little room for improvement. Could be a skill but I think it's too powerful. And, if you use it in a system that gives the PC one skill per reputation score, how's that different from my system?
As for Body Language: you may think that guessing one's ability scores is something everybody can do. I do not.
Im not sure, but i think, that the official rule is that: a spellcaster get back one Spell Point every hour multipled by his hand. Rest is unnesessery. But i will maybe add to this rule that if a hero rest at least 8 hours, he can pick a card additionally, one card for mysticism, one for sorcery, (and it could be trump of course). With that SP system the heros have to use the SP-s carefully, as you mentioned.
Okay, I stand corrected. If the rule is like this, then it's like this. But everyone I know understood the rule like I did. I'm glad to see that it's not so unbalanced.
I loved the stories, but my favorit world was the Realms.
By, Arkozd
Figures.
Another thing: anyone knows if the new editions of the Fifth Age basic set came with rules modifications? Because my copy is from the very first batch. Could explain the different rules interpretations.
Originally posted by lippshitz
the official rule for NPC hitpoints is actually their physique score times the number of cards that would be in their hand. I know in the rule book it was misleading or confusing but I got that on an old chat or message board from Steve Miller I think
Again, I stand corrected.
Originally posted by lippshitz
the official rule for NPC hitpoints is actually their physique score times the number of cards that would be in their hand. I know in the rule book it was misleading or confusing but I got that on an old chat or message board from Steve Miller I think
That's actually an optional rule for important NPCs from the _SAGA Companion_. You could use it for heroes, too, if you wanted a more D&D-esque system.
Matthew L. Martin
1 score by 1 point.
1 code by one degree every 2-3 Quests.
Wealth by 1 point every 2 Quests.
1 free usable-any-time trump per 2 Quests.
Or... trade their advancement in for a new Advantage. Think of advantages like feats in a way, but there are onyl 2 kinds:
Generic ones, and ones specifically tailored to a written Role. I'll go more into advantages soon...
Peace!
Think of them a little like feats. Allow a character to choose one (see previous post) when appropriate. They each do something small, but when added together, creat a larger, more detailed picture. Some examples:
Improved Melee Damage
This advantage allows you to add 1 extra point of damage to all melee attacks you make.
(make a mirror one for ranged attacks)
Keen Sight
Automatic trump on all Perception actions at difficulty 12 or lower.
You get the idea... thoughts? Opinions?
Amen.