It's not just pirates, it's the whole Age of Sail that fascinates me. I LOVE the Horatio Hornblower telemovies and even quite liked Geena Davis' attempt.
Anyhoo, the point I'm trying to make, is that I'd love to incorporate all that into a D&D game somehow, but the problem is... cannons.
For some reason this is a stumbling block for any fantasy setting. The introduction of gunpowder seems to... diminish or destroy whatever it is that holds us fascinated about fantasy settings. Perhaps it is the notion that, with the introduction of gunpowder, swords and armour become obsolete.
So, the fact that gunpowder can't work on Oerth, with the exception of smokepowder which can only be used by the adherents of Murlynd, already neatly does away with this little problem. The problem then becomes: what to replace it with?
Ship to ship combat just isn't the same without things blowing up. Catapults and ballistae compensate to a certain degree, but even then, there's a certain romance about cannons that can't entirely be recreated with such devices.
So I'm asking for suggestions for ways to get around this sticky little issue as I'd love to have a few pirating adventures on the open seas with my players. A whole campaign on pirates is out of the question but one or two adventures every now and then could easily work out.
Anything?
No cannon balls? Take a fireball thrown from ship to ship and suddenly the chaos is back in the picture.
There was a cool old issue of Dragon with some Ship Mage stuff, which I will dig up for you when I have more time.
You might take some inspiration from Moorcock's Melnibonean battle barges, which employed a greek-fire-like alchemical substance IIRC.
Now I am not saying that their shouldn't be ship mages. I'm just stating that it kind of kills the pirate feel IMO. Now some large naval fleet might have a ship mage or two in their midst. But if they have one aboard you better be certain it will be on one of their major battleships.
SPOILER ALERT
I mean, take Pirates of the Carribbean for instance, where they dumped everything over the side, including cannonballs, to lighten the ship in order to float over the reef where the deeper draft Black Pearl couldn't go. And then, finding that they couldn't out-run the Black Pearl, suddenly needed those cannonballs. Instead, they used all the forks and knives and whatever else they could find as ammo.
If you replace cannons with mages, what do you then do? Throw the mage overboard to lighten the vessal and then try and make his wand work?
I don't mind the idea of greek fire, fired from catapults and ballistae. That means you could also use stuff like thunderstones and smokesticks which would make ship to ship combat pretty interesting. Although, using greek fire wouldn't be an option in most instances as the ships themselves were the treasure half the time and even when they weren't, getting the treasure on the ship meant preserving the ship in order to get it to port. Sometimes they robbed the vessals and then let the crews take the ships home, at least those who didn't want to side with the pirates. So greek fire would be a very, very last resort, only used when the cargo was no longer a desired outcome and living was.
That would bring up the complexity that those fighting against pirates would have little qualms in using alchemist's fire against pirates, giving them a significant advantage in a 'fire' fight. Water elemental allies would the pirates best bet
But lead balls could be fired from Ballista, instead of greek fire. If you throw mages into the mix you spoil the pirate feel. I think we both agree on this one Delgath. My hard and fast rule with magic is to utilize it sparingly. This way when it is encountered it really feels enigmatic.
The problem with most roleplaying games is everyone wants to shoot their load with magic right away. This is one of the things which turns me off about the FR campaign setting. Magic can be powerful and enticing. But if your throwing it around like wooden planks on a ship it loses its appeal.
Moderation is the key. In my campaign world rangers and paladins do not receive spells and bards must delve into magic for a long time before they can even cast a first level spell with a limited casting ability of third level magic. I keep to the 1st edition feel for the bardic class allowing them to learn druidic as well as convential magic. I compensate these classes with other skills to off shot their lack of spellcasting. While priests characters can still cast eccelsiastical magic, their are also priests without this gift.
This is the way magic has both an awe inspiring and fearful aspect in a campaign. This is also why spellcasters are always considered suspicous and less-amiable than others members of society.
The circle of eight keeps many of their movements secret. Not only because they need to keep those who would work against from finding out their schemes. But also because many members of society are often unnerved by their appearance.
Well I ranted long enough enjoy your campaign.
Well I don't like the mage cannon option suggested above
Mage Cannon. Insert one standard sized mage into cannon. Light wick. Take aim. Fire away. Works best if you light the mage on fire. Secondary splash effects should ensure that the sails and rigging catch fire as well.
Um I'm a big fan of the whole nautical theme. I love ships and the concept of naval battles in the fantasy/ medieval age. Being a true Greyhawker, I simply could not have canons on ships, so I too have looked around for solutions.
I have come up with much the same as those posts above, but I use them all. My campaign is set around Irongate and I often have naval aspects to my adventures, particularly travelling, but sometimes it is also the focus of the adventure. I have bought many of the nautical supplements that are out for d20 stuff. The Seafarer's Handbook was prehaps the best, but Seas of Blood has some worthwhile stuff to.
They dont exactly break new ground when it comes to fantasy naval artillery: catapults (light & heavy), rams, ballistae and greek fire. Obviously there is great scope for alchemy here, but remember having pots of flammable material onboard can be just as dangerous for your crew as the enemy crew.
His is a short list of weapons and ideas I use for resolving naval combat in Greyhawk:
- catapults, light and heavy
- clay pots of various alchemical substances (fired from catapults)
- missile fire from crewmen and marines
- boarding actions by crew and marines
- various large missile weapons (ballistae, bolt throwers)
- spellcasting characters
- rams
It is true that someone with a wand of fireballs can be a real problem in this sought of combat. If you are intent on destroying the enemy rather than capturing them, then your list of attack options is quite wide, but consider:
- a ship is a very valuable thing and they take time to built, so in a conflict it is very handy to capture them intact
- ships dont always catch alight from fireballs
- crews can put fires out with pales of water
- if you want to capture someone or something on board a ship, you might find being to aggressive counter-productive (it is harder to find things on the bottom of the ocean)
Yes - it is hard to capture the feel of canons etc., but you might find some of the d20 supplements useful.
Sure, it's a violation of canon, but Gygax, who created that canon, had frickin tanks in his Greyhawk game.
On a related note, Skull & Bones, Green Ronin's new pirates d20 book is out now (or by next week, iirc).
However, I do remember playing a Greyhawk campaign where rifles, some sort of black powder rifle possibly a blunderbuss, were introduced for a short time. The PCs had to collect the rifles for a certain god who contacte3d them and throw them into a thing called the Well of Many Worlds where they came from. On the way through the adventure a PC did manage to figure out how to fire one of them and used it a couple times. Eventually the weapons were thrown back into the well and the PCs garnered favor with the god.
Maybe use them in a couple of adventures of a campaign where two or three ships possibly pass through time into Greyhawk before the PCs get them sorted out and on the way back to their time. Along the way the bad guys, whoever that might be percieved to be by the PCs, are hot on their heels in an epic British vs. Pirates type scenario.
Not a big fan myself but each to their own I guess.
Originally posted by Greyhack
On a related note, Skull & Bones, Green Ronin's new pirates d20 book is out now (or by next week, iirc).
I refuse to believe that book is real until I hold a copy in my greasy, pizza and beer stained hands!
That thing has been vaporware for far too long for me to believe otherwise.
If you use faerun as an example then the gnomes of lantan are a good example they shun the use of magic and instead look for ways to replace it. I personally try to keep things like that to a minimum but if your looking for a pirate campaign single shot pistols and cannons are a major part of the mythos surrounding the characters.
I was also wondering if anyone knows which book I could use that gives me rules on cannons. IE damage, range, and weight. I have a player who wants to throw one (he'll be playing an ogre) he got the idea from a warhammer figurine. He wants to combine fighter/hulking hurler to first fire the cannon then throw it at the target. I know this sounds munchkinish but he's a new player and I want him to have fun.
Cannons are most definately not "Uber" wepaons in fantasy games.
Cannons need a LOT of gunpowder, fire magic is relatively common...see the problem? ;)
Cannons should fire as "lines", humanoid bodies simply cannot stop a cannon balls' path, even a rolling cannon ball on the ground has been known to rip legs off unwary folk (you do the math say a 12lb ball rolling at 100mph...)
or fire as as "cones" with langrage or cannister
please note, cannons never fired scrap metal etc fired without a contianer around it, it woddl destroy the barrel or jam and thus blow up!
instead they fitted it into "sabots" (wooden cylidners, bamboo was superb for this), or in bags with wood strips around to protect the barrel.
chainshot, was a split in half ball, joined by a chain, used to sever rigging and masts, it also severed humans...the ultimate bola :p
I made rules for 2nd ed canons of various sizes and shot years ago
there's no way a cannon or ballista should do the paltry damage they are supposed to in 3rd ed rules. A heavy ballista or light cannon should be doing 6d8 damage or the likes. Or better, we should use Strength rules for 3rd ed.
Heavy ballista light cannon 1d12+12, crit 17-20 x3, for size of projectile, extreme force that propels it, and propensity to rip you to hell ;)
but suffer a -8 to hit penalty for size of weapon etc when firing at a SPECIFIC individual. the cone or line will still hit others of course.
For a cone or line, I'd suggest everyone in line make a Ref save vs DC20 + gunners int or dex modifier, +1/2 their BAB.
Avoiding a cannonball cna be done (by seeing 'em about to fire, luck etc), but it's nto easy. Note that line is actually a parabola. but NOTHING is going to stop it short of a castle wall, dragon, iron golem etc.
armour is no damn use versus such wepaons. unless it's an artifact!