Nobles. Light armour only? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Nobles. Light armour only?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 26, 2003 0:07:17 Does anyone else find this a little strange? Considering that Nobles are a real-world concept, shouldn't they be the only class with access to heavy armour? I'm a little dumbfounded that they don't have at least medium.
#2
baron_the_curse
Sep 26, 2003 1:11:52 With few exceptions nobles are not bred for war. They are taught how to wield a weapon because is expected of them and as they get older it becomes more of a sport, such as fencing. Consider also that nobles spend a lot of their childhood learning how to read, write, court etiquette, etc. Very few receive any training in heavy armors. That’s something for knights and warriors to worry about.

I’m sure they are exceptions. If is more to your liking you can use the Aristocrat class in the Dungeon Master’s Guide. They get proficiency with all types of Simple Weapons, Martial, and all Armor and Shields. I find that a little strange, but I suppose not unheard of.
#3
zombiegleemax
Sep 26, 2003 11:41:41
Originally posted by Baron the Curse
With few exceptions nobles are not bred for war. They are taught how to wield a weapon because is expected of them and as they get older it becomes more of a sport, such as fencing. Consider also that nobles spend a lot of their childhood learning how to read, write, court etiquette, etc. Very few receive any training in heavy armors. That’s something for knights and warriors to worry about.

I’m sure they are exceptions. If is more to your liking you can use the Aristocrat class in the Dungeon Master’s Guide. They get proficiency with all types of Simple Weapons, Martial, and all Armor and Shields. I find that a little strange, but I suppose not unheard of.

Are you talking about reality or dragonlance specifically, becaue in reality the only people who ever wore fullplate were of noble descent.
#4
zombiegleemax
Sep 26, 2003 11:48:40 But that's mostly because only nobility could afford full plate. But your point is heard, in the sense that knights = nobles = trained in heavy armor. It's more complicated than that, but you know what I mean.

Since DL is totally different, we can't really assume anything about it, and basically need to work based off of what it shows us. But really, the only nobility that uses heavy armor, in my experience with Ansalon, are the Solamnics. And then, not all of them. Most nobles, it seems, prefer to be lighter and faster and less combatative in general.

Just what I'm seeing.
#5
baron_the_curse
Sep 26, 2003 12:25:05 I’m talking about Ansalon. In High Fantasy Settings nobles seem to enjoy a grandeur, glamorous, and far more luxurious life than in our medieval era.
#6
kalanth
Sep 26, 2003 12:51:59 I am in agreement with Baron the Curse, nobles in the Dragonlance world are less of the battle hardened type, and less likely to wear heavy armors. Besides, how many players in the D&D world actually use heavy armors? I have not met one that uses more than studded leather armor in years.
#7
zombiegleemax
Sep 26, 2003 14:16:06
Originally posted by Kalanth
Besides, how many players in the D&D world actually use heavy armors? I have not met one that uses more than studded leather armor in years.

Well I haven't witnessed anything to that extent, but I do agree that light armours are the most commonly used for mechanical reasons. That's not really the point though. ;)
#8
zombiegleemax
Sep 26, 2003 15:03:32 I don't know..... now with the dwarf rule that they never suffer movement penalties from wearing heavy armor or having encumbrance, i see alot of full-plate dwarves charging like the mad mo-fo's they are.
#9
zombiegleemax
Sep 26, 2003 16:51:44 Dwarves, Knights of Solamnia - just to name two types of folks, off-hand, that might find heavier armors awesome.

Full Plate is not to be under-estimated...
#10
kalanth
Sep 26, 2003 17:18:18
Originally posted by The Udjat
Dwarves, Knights of Solamnia - just to name two types of folks, off-hand, that might find heavier armors awesome.

Full Plate is not to be under-estimated...

I was talkin' core class mostly, and the modern trend. I miss seeing the Cleric or fighter wearing full plate. My last cleric wore chain mail, and my last fighter wore full plate. I think those days are going away.
#11
darthsylver
Sep 27, 2003 11:14:19 I don't know. I mean a set of full-plate that is masterwork, functions just as a set of medium weight armor. So I do not see why more fist-in-you-face melee fighters don't use it. I would defintely use full-plate as a fighter. Unfortunately I tend to play rogues and arcane magic-users. But I am looking into finding ways around the arcane spell failure for full plate (without resorting to prestige classes). You know, possibly through the manufacture of the metal used, the procedure used to make the armor and possibly infusing the armor with magic. Who knows, maybe I can come up with something.

I was curious about using mithril for armor as it automatically lowers the armor 1 weight class, and then making it masterwork to get another level of weight lowered. But it just made sense that if I was using mithril, then it would automatically be mastercraft as a mere "apprentice" would not know how to mold mithril as a "master" would.
#12
zombiegleemax
Sep 27, 2003 13:25:50
Originally posted by darthsylver
I don't know. I mean a set of full-plate that is masterwork, functions just as a set of medium weight armor.

That's a new one. :D Sorry buddy but masterworking armour doesn't do much besides make it shiny (and that -1 off the armour check penalty).

Back to nobles. One thing I have found with the aristacrat and noble classes is that they seem to be based on renaisance pansies. You know, gloveslapping, mask wearing whimps. I would prefer nobles to (IMC anyway) to be a little more hard nosed, like in the dark ages. Anyone ever read the Farseer Trilogy? Nobles should be like those guys.

Would anyone really think that giving Nobles heavy armour would over-power them?
#13
rosisha
Sep 27, 2003 13:38:00 I agree. Nobles should be tough fighters, i mean look at the world they live in... Ansalon is not the place to be a nansy pamsy Ren Noble, except Panthalas.

Rosisha
#14
The_White_Sorcerer
Sep 27, 2003 15:00:11
Originally posted by The man formerly known as Woza
Would anyone really think that giving Nobles heavy armour would over-power them?

I dunno, but does it fit the concept of the Noble? And I mean one that is just a courtier, not a warrior. Those that are warriors should take levels of Fighter, not Noble. Noble is a courtier class. really.
I was pretty surprised that they even get light armor.

Originally posted by Rosisha
Nobles should be tough fighters, i mean look at the world they live in...

Using this logic I could say "Commoners should be tough fighters, I mean look at the world they live in..." ;)

If they want to be tough fighters, then they should take some Fighter levels.
#15
rosisha
Sep 27, 2003 17:29:29 True, but also in your classic medievel world it was the Noble who was the fighter, it was what they did. Commeners rarely owned weapons (wasn't it illegal in London to own a sword if you weren't noble???). I just think that the noble should be a sort of knight like class, to show the real feudal political system (you give me food I give you protection).

Rosisha
#16
zombiegleemax
Sep 27, 2003 17:33:27
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer
I dunno, but does it fit the concept of the Noble? And I mean one that is just a courtier, not a warrior. Those that are warriors should take levels of Fighter, not Noble. Noble is a courtier class. really.
I was pretty surprised that they even get light armor.

Remember that we are talking about a PC class here. If it was an NPC then I'd completely agree with you.

Hmmm....... Just read the class again and I suppose you're right about the nobles niche (DL specific nobles that is). I guess the character I was thinking of playing will have to multiclass. Guess that's not the end of the world. ;)
#17
darthsylver
Sep 27, 2003 22:18:08 Sorry woza, you're right about masterwork. I was thinking of mithril again. Arrggh, so many materials so little space in the mind.
#18
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2003 9:27:01 Well, you don't really have to multiclass. A +4 chain shirt is light armor and had the same AC as normal full plate. Also being noblity, they could probably afford it. (BTW, I don't have the DLCS yet, damn bills. So, if I am wrong, I apologize.)
#19
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2003 11:40:43
Originally posted by Paladin's Wrath
Well, you don't really have to multiclass. A +4 chain shirt is light armor and had the same AC as normal full plate. Also being noblity, they could probably afford it. (BTW, I don't have the DLCS yet, damn bills. So, if I am wrong, I apologize.)

Yeah, but that's still not really the point. Mechanically I agree that light armour gets the job done 90% of the time, it's just that historically, the greatest knights were mostly (if not exclusively) nobles and wore heavy armour. The concept I was building for myself was basically a noble who went adventuring as kind of the protector of the people. Cruising around in full-plate with your families crest on it adds a majestic touch IMO. Breastplate could pull off a similar effect but even that is beyond the DL gloveslap noble. ;)
#20
The_White_Sorcerer
Sep 28, 2003 14:16:50
Originally posted by The man formerly known as Woza
...it's just that historically, the greatest knights were mostly (if not exclusively) nobles and wore heavy armour.

What you have to understand is that those of the noble social class don't necessarily belong to the noble character class. Those noble knights in heavy armor are mostly fighters who just happen to belong to the noble caste.
#21
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2003 16:37:19 White Sorcerer has this on the ball. You want the valiant knighted noble, wearing full plate and charging down the field like a storm, be a fighter, but have him be of noble descent in his bio. The Noble class is for nobles who aren't GREAT warriors or knights, but chose a life of politics, leadership, and so on. It's a social class, not a fighter class, similar in use to non-magical bards.
#22
rosisha
Sep 28, 2003 17:12:10 SOOOO its a wimp class!!! they're all wimps! lets go beat them up and take their lunch money!!!!

Rosisha, who really has no idea where this came from so it might be best to ignore it!
#23
zombiegleemax
Sep 29, 2003 14:13:54 They are actually a pretty good class, quite versatile, especially with the ability to turn a cross class skill into a class skill and those leadership abilities. One of the players for the campaign i am working on wants to take the noble and work him up to legendary tactician, which is a that would fit many non inheriting noble children who join the military. He plans on being able to talk his way out of some situations, and plan his way out of others. It is definitely a roleplaying class, so it does fit nicely into the DL world, much as it does in the star wars universe, though I will admit it seems to based off of the pampered nobility stereotype, instead of the defend your realm, defend your faith type.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 26, 2003 0:07:17	Does anyone else find this a little strange? Considering that Nobles are a real-world concept, shouldn't they be the only class with access to heavy armour? I'm a little dumbfounded that they don't have at least medium.
#2 baron_the_curse Sep 26, 2003 1:11:52	With few exceptions nobles are not bred for war. They are taught how to wield a weapon because is expected of them and as they get older it becomes more of a sport, such as fencing. Consider also that nobles spend a lot of their childhood learning how to read, write, court etiquette, etc. Very few receive any training in heavy armors. That’s something for knights and warriors to worry about. I’m sure they are exceptions. If is more to your liking you can use the Aristocrat class in the Dungeon Master’s Guide. They get proficiency with all types of Simple Weapons, Martial, and all Armor and Shields. I find that a little strange, but I suppose not unheard of.
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 26, 2003 11:41:41	Originally posted by Baron the Curse With few exceptions nobles are not bred for war. They are taught how to wield a weapon because is expected of them and as they get older it becomes more of a sport, such as fencing. Consider also that nobles spend a lot of their childhood learning how to read, write, court etiquette, etc. Very few receive any training in heavy armors. That’s something for knights and warriors to worry about. I’m sure they are exceptions. If is more to your liking you can use the Aristocrat class in the Dungeon Master’s Guide. They get proficiency with all types of Simple Weapons, Martial, and all Armor and Shields. I find that a little strange, but I suppose not unheard of. Are you talking about reality or dragonlance specifically, becaue in reality the only people who ever wore fullplate were of noble descent.
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 26, 2003 11:48:40	But that's mostly because only nobility could afford full plate. But your point is heard, in the sense that knights = nobles = trained in heavy armor. It's more complicated than that, but you know what I mean. Since DL is totally different, we can't really assume anything about it, and basically need to work based off of what it shows us. But really, the only nobility that uses heavy armor, in my experience with Ansalon, are the Solamnics. And then, not all of them. Most nobles, it seems, prefer to be lighter and faster and less combatative in general. Just what I'm seeing.
#5 baron_the_curse Sep 26, 2003 12:25:05	I’m talking about Ansalon. In High Fantasy Settings nobles seem to enjoy a grandeur, glamorous, and far more luxurious life than in our medieval era.
#6 kalanth Sep 26, 2003 12:51:59	I am in agreement with Baron the Curse, nobles in the Dragonlance world are less of the battle hardened type, and less likely to wear heavy armors. Besides, how many players in the D&D world actually use heavy armors? I have not met one that uses more than studded leather armor in years.
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 26, 2003 14:16:06	Originally posted by Kalanth Besides, how many players in the D&D world actually use heavy armors? I have not met one that uses more than studded leather armor in years. Well I haven't witnessed anything to that extent, but I do agree that light armours are the most commonly used for mechanical reasons. That's not really the point though. ;)
#8 zombiegleemax Sep 26, 2003 15:03:32	I don't know..... now with the dwarf rule that they never suffer movement penalties from wearing heavy armor or having encumbrance, i see alot of full-plate dwarves charging like the mad mo-fo's they are.
#9 zombiegleemax Sep 26, 2003 16:51:44	Dwarves, Knights of Solamnia - just to name two types of folks, off-hand, that might find heavier armors awesome. Full Plate is not to be under-estimated...
#10 kalanth Sep 26, 2003 17:18:18	Originally posted by The Udjat Dwarves, Knights of Solamnia - just to name two types of folks, off-hand, that might find heavier armors awesome. Full Plate is not to be under-estimated... I was talkin' core class mostly, and the modern trend. I miss seeing the Cleric or fighter wearing full plate. My last cleric wore chain mail, and my last fighter wore full plate. I think those days are going away.
#11 darthsylver Sep 27, 2003 11:14:19	I don't know. I mean a set of full-plate that is masterwork, functions just as a set of medium weight armor. So I do not see why more fist-in-you-face melee fighters don't use it. I would defintely use full-plate as a fighter. Unfortunately I tend to play rogues and arcane magic-users. But I am looking into finding ways around the arcane spell failure for full plate (without resorting to prestige classes). You know, possibly through the manufacture of the metal used, the procedure used to make the armor and possibly infusing the armor with magic. Who knows, maybe I can come up with something. I was curious about using mithril for armor as it automatically lowers the armor 1 weight class, and then making it masterwork to get another level of weight lowered. But it just made sense that if I was using mithril, then it would automatically be mastercraft as a mere "apprentice" would not know how to mold mithril as a "master" would.
#12 zombiegleemax Sep 27, 2003 13:25:50	Originally posted by darthsylver I don't know. I mean a set of full-plate that is masterwork, functions just as a set of medium weight armor. That's a new one. :D Sorry buddy but masterworking armour doesn't do much besides make it shiny (and that -1 off the armour check penalty). Back to nobles. One thing I have found with the aristacrat and noble classes is that they seem to be based on renaisance pansies. You know, gloveslapping, mask wearing whimps. I would prefer nobles to (IMC anyway) to be a little more hard nosed, like in the dark ages. Anyone ever read the Farseer Trilogy? Nobles should be like those guys. Would anyone really think that giving Nobles heavy armour would over-power them?
#13 rosisha Sep 27, 2003 13:38:00	I agree. Nobles should be tough fighters, i mean look at the world they live in... Ansalon is not the place to be a nansy pamsy Ren Noble, except Panthalas. Rosisha
#14 The_White_Sorcerer Sep 27, 2003 15:00:11	Originally posted by The man formerly known as Woza Would anyone really think that giving Nobles heavy armour would over-power them? I dunno, but does it fit the concept of the Noble? And I mean one that is just a courtier, not a warrior. Those that are warriors should take levels of Fighter, not Noble. Noble is a courtier class. really. I was pretty surprised that they even get light armor. Originally posted by Rosisha Nobles should be tough fighters, i mean look at the world they live in... Using this logic I could say "Commoners should be tough fighters, I mean look at the world they live in..." ;) If they want to be tough fighters, then they should take some Fighter levels.
#15 rosisha Sep 27, 2003 17:29:29	True, but also in your classic medievel world it was the Noble who was the fighter, it was what they did. Commeners rarely owned weapons (wasn't it illegal in London to own a sword if you weren't noble???). I just think that the noble should be a sort of knight like class, to show the real feudal political system (you give me food I give you protection). Rosisha
#16 zombiegleemax Sep 27, 2003 17:33:27	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer I dunno, but does it fit the concept of the Noble? And I mean one that is just a courtier, not a warrior. Those that are warriors should take levels of Fighter, not Noble. Noble is a courtier class. really. I was pretty surprised that they even get light armor. Remember that we are talking about a PC class here. If it was an NPC then I'd completely agree with you. Hmmm....... Just read the class again and I suppose you're right about the nobles niche (DL specific nobles that is). I guess the character I was thinking of playing will have to multiclass. Guess that's not the end of the world. ;)
#17 darthsylver Sep 27, 2003 22:18:08	Sorry woza, you're right about masterwork. I was thinking of mithril again. Arrggh, so many materials so little space in the mind.
#18 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2003 9:27:01	Well, you don't really have to multiclass. A +4 chain shirt is light armor and had the same AC as normal full plate. Also being noblity, they could probably afford it. (BTW, I don't have the DLCS yet, damn bills. So, if I am wrong, I apologize.)
#19 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2003 11:40:43	Originally posted by Paladin's Wrath Well, you don't really have to multiclass. A +4 chain shirt is light armor and had the same AC as normal full plate. Also being noblity, they could probably afford it. (BTW, I don't have the DLCS yet, damn bills. So, if I am wrong, I apologize.) Yeah, but that's still not really the point. Mechanically I agree that light armour gets the job done 90% of the time, it's just that historically, the greatest knights were mostly (if not exclusively) nobles and wore heavy armour. The concept I was building for myself was basically a noble who went adventuring as kind of the protector of the people. Cruising around in full-plate with your families crest on it adds a majestic touch IMO. Breastplate could pull off a similar effect but even that is beyond the DL gloveslap noble. ;)
#20 The_White_Sorcerer Sep 28, 2003 14:16:50	Originally posted by The man formerly known as Woza ...it's just that historically, the greatest knights were mostly (if not exclusively) nobles and wore heavy armour. What you have to understand is that those of the noble social class don't necessarily belong to the noble character class. Those noble knights in heavy armor are mostly fighters who just happen to belong to the noble caste.
#21 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2003 16:37:19	White Sorcerer has this on the ball. You want the valiant knighted noble, wearing full plate and charging down the field like a storm, be a fighter, but have him be of noble descent in his bio. The Noble class is for nobles who aren't GREAT warriors or knights, but chose a life of politics, leadership, and so on. It's a social class, not a fighter class, similar in use to non-magical bards.
#22 rosisha Sep 28, 2003 17:12:10	SOOOO its a wimp class!!! they're all wimps! lets go beat them up and take their lunch money!!!! Rosisha, who really has no idea where this came from so it might be best to ignore it!
#23 zombiegleemax Sep 29, 2003 14:13:54	They are actually a pretty good class, quite versatile, especially with the ability to turn a cross class skill into a class skill and those leadership abilities. One of the players for the campaign i am working on wants to take the noble and work him up to legendary tactician, which is a that would fit many non inheriting noble children who join the military. He plans on being able to talk his way out of some situations, and plan his way out of others. It is definitely a roleplaying class, so it does fit nicely into the DL world, much as it does in the star wars universe, though I will admit it seems to based off of the pampered nobility stereotype, instead of the defend your realm, defend your faith type.