Shouldn't draconians have.... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Shouldn't draconians have....

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2003 5:29:30 Here's something else I've been thinking about recently.

Shouldn't draconians share the resistance of their parent dragons? I've always thought that Auraks should have fire resistance and sivaks should have cold resistance. Is there any reason why they don't?
#2
The_White_Sorcerer
Sep 28, 2003 6:57:27 Propably for the same reason they don't have breath weapons.
#3
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2003 8:14:46
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer
Propably for the same reason they don't have breath weapons.

They do.
#4
The_White_Sorcerer
Sep 28, 2003 8:21:09
Originally posted by The man formerly known as Woza
They do.

They do? Since when? Whoa, I had no idea! I've never seen a draconian use his/her breath weapon. Ever.

Well, you learn something new every day.
#5
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2003 8:22:42 draconians only have breath weapons if you buy a feat for them. Auraks are the wierd ones with a poison gas (i think) breath weapon, but that's not really draconic as much as just... well.... kinda there. Auraks are buff. :D Anyhow, no, draconians only have breath weapons if you buy a feat for them. I would venture to guess that if you want them to have resistances too, i'd make it into a feat, prereq a good Fort save and the breath weapon feat.
#6
The_White_Sorcerer
Sep 28, 2003 8:28:46
Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
draconians only have breath weapons if you buy a feat for them.

That's what I thought.
#7
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2003 9:31:12
Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
draconians only have breath weapons if you buy a feat for them. Auraks are the wierd ones with a poison gas (i think) breath weapon, but that's not really draconic as much as just... well.... kinda there. Auraks are buff. :D Anyhow, no, draconians only have breath weapons if you buy a feat for them. I would venture to guess that if you want them to have resistances too, i'd make it into a feat, prereq a good Fort save and the breath weapon feat.

I think the reason it is a feat is because it is so damn good! 30' cone 3/day doing 3d8. That's sweet at almost any level. Then there's the improved version.

I think that elemental resistance would just add some more flavour to them and highlight their heritage a bit more. Something like as follows:

Auraks: fire (5)
Sivaks: Cold (5)
Kapaks: Acid (5)
Bozak: Electricity (5)
Bazz: Probably should be fire, but maybe they could do without it.
#8
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2003 9:35:03
Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
... prereq a good Fort save and the breath weapon feat.

I think maybe a resistence feat would have to be a prerequsite for a breath weapon. I just thought that if you didn't have one, you would also take damage. Or maybe, you could add resistence automatically when a player earns the breath weapon feat. Just some other options.
#9
The_White_Sorcerer
Sep 28, 2003 9:48:28 I think the "Breath Weapon feat is required for the Resistance feat" is more logical than the reverse option.
The main reason, IMO, why copper dragons, for example, have acid immunity is so that they wouldn't be hurt by their own breath weapons. So breath comes first, resistance later.
#10
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2003 11:30:16
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer

The main reason, IMO, why copper dragons, for example, have acid immunity is so that they wouldn't be hurt by their own breath weapons. So breath comes first, resistance later.

This is even more reason why at least Kapaks should have acid resistance. They have acid for blood (well I assume they do, from the death throws) after all.

I do like the idea of tacking resistance onto the breath-weapon feat though. The feat is already extremely impressive, a paltry 5 elemental resistance wouldn't make any major difference.
#11
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2003 11:31:38 woudln't be surprised to see feats like this in upcoming Races of Krynn book (no i don't know if it's official, but as every other setting has a book devoted to races (faerun has two), it's possible).
#12
zombiegleemax
Sep 28, 2003 11:32:49
Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
Auraks are the wierd ones with a poison gas (i think) breath weapon, but that's not really draconic as much as just... well.... kinda there. Auraks are buff. :D

As a side mote I just remembered that good dragons used to have 2 breath weapons and a gold dragon's secondary BW was chlorine gas.
#13
The_White_Sorcerer
Sep 28, 2003 15:08:16
Originally posted by The man formerly known as Woza
As a side mote I just remembered that good dragons used to have 2 breath weapons and a gold dragon's secondary BW was chlorine gas.

They still have two breath weapons. Gold dragons have fire and weakening gas.
#14
brimstone
Sep 29, 2003 14:18:57
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer
They still have two breath weapons. Gold dragons have fire and weakening gas.

Unless they changed it for 3.5 Edition (again), then according to the 3rd Edition rules, Gold dragons have Fire breath and a Chlorine like gas breath (caustic gas or something like that).
#15
The_White_Sorcerer
Sep 29, 2003 14:27:16
Originally posted by Brimstone
Unless they changed it for 3.5 Edition (again), then according to the 3rd Edition rules, Gold dragons have Fire breath and a Chlorine like gas breath (caustic gas or something like that).

From my 3.0 MM: "A gold dragon has two forms of breath weapon, a cone of fire or a cone of weakening gas."
From my 3.5 MM: "A gold dragon has two types of breath weapon, a cone of fire and a cone of weakening gas."

Big change.
#16
zombiegleemax
Sep 29, 2003 15:00:53 In second ed, Gold dragons had fire and chlorine breaths. they thought this was way too strong (a gold dragon, breathwise, is a red and a green dragon combined), so they gave it a gas that weakens instead.
#17
shugi
Sep 29, 2003 15:34:24 Since Krynnish dragons can be harmed by their own type of breath in the novels, I'd leave draconians as they are. Of course, Krynn dragons have these immunities in D&D 3.0 and 3.5, but I've changed them to resistances in my game.
#18
zombiegleemax
Sep 29, 2003 20:19:07 That makes sense. In the legend of Huma, Heart killed Char by clamping down on his snot and not letting him expell his acid breath attack. So changing it to resistance is good. Thanks for the idea.
#19
darthsylver
Sep 30, 2003 0:08:20 Let us not forget that in "Dalamar the Dark", said dark elf fried a blue dragon with a bolt of lightning, and as far as I know he does not have the feat "energy substitution or spell thematics" in order to make the lightning fire, of make another spell look like a lightning bolt.
#20
brimstone
Sep 30, 2003 11:24:46
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer
From my 3.0 MM: "A gold dragon has two forms of breath weapon, a cone of fire or a cone of weakening gas."
From my 3.5 MM: "A gold dragon has two types of breath weapon, a cone of fire and a cone of weakening gas."

Big change.

Okay, smart ass...so I was remembering the 2nd ed AD&D. :P

#21
The_White_Sorcerer
Sep 30, 2003 11:28:13
Originally posted by Brimstone
Okay, smart ass...so I was remembering the 2nd ed AD&D. :P

Maybe I should've added a ;) smiley in my post. Yeah, I realized you were thinking of the wrong edition.
#22
brimstone
Sep 30, 2003 11:54:20
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer
Maybe I should've added a ;) smiley in my post. Yeah, I realized you were thinking of the wrong edition.

No need, man. I knew you were just messin' with me. :D
#23
zombiegleemax
Oct 01, 2003 12:08:44 I was under the impression that all good dragons have both lethal and non-lethal breath weapons. See the legend of Huma where Gwynneth says exactly that, silvers have both ice and paralysis breath
#24
The_White_Sorcerer
Oct 01, 2003 12:21:46
Originally posted by Hunters_blades
I was under the impression that all good dragons have both lethal and non-lethal breath weapons.

True.

Brass: Line of fire and a cone of sleep gas.
Copper: Line of acid and cone of slow gas.
Bronze: Line of lightning and a cone of repulsion gas.
Silver: Cone of cold and a cone of paralyzing gas.
Gold: Cone of fire and cone of weakening gas.
#25
zombiegleemax
Oct 04, 2003 3:03:45
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer
I think the "Breath Weapon feat is required for the Resistance feat" is more logical than the reverse option.
The main reason, IMO, why copper dragons, for example, have acid immunity is so that they wouldn't be hurt by their own breath weapons. So breath comes first, resistance later. [/QUOTE

Dude, you so totally have it wrong by your own logic - if the breath weapon comes first,that means the dragon is vulnerable to its effects until they pick up resistance to said effects. It makes far more sense for them to be resistant first, which covers any stuff-ups that may occur while they are learning how to utalize their breath weapon and/or hacking off their sibblings/parents.
#26
The_White_Sorcerer
Oct 04, 2003 8:19:56
Originally posted by lord zog
Dude, you so totally have it wrong by your own logic - if the breath weapon comes first,that means the dragon is vulnerable to its effects until they pick up resistance to said effects. It makes far more sense for them to be resistant first, which covers any stuff-ups that may occur while they are learning how to utalize their breath weapon and/or hacking off their sibblings/parents.

What I meant is, a breath weapon is the reason for the immunity. Dragons get both at the same time, they just wouldn't get immunity if they didn't get a breath weapon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2003 5:29:30	Here's something else I've been thinking about recently. Shouldn't draconians share the resistance of their parent dragons? I've always thought that Auraks should have fire resistance and sivaks should have cold resistance. Is there any reason why they don't?
#2 The_White_Sorcerer Sep 28, 2003 6:57:27	Propably for the same reason they don't have breath weapons.
#3 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2003 8:14:46	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer Propably for the same reason they don't have breath weapons. They do.
#4 The_White_Sorcerer Sep 28, 2003 8:21:09	Originally posted by The man formerly known as Woza They do. They do? Since when? Whoa, I had no idea! I've never seen a draconian use his/her breath weapon. Ever. Well, you learn something new every day.
#5 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2003 8:22:42	draconians only have breath weapons if you buy a feat for them. Auraks are the wierd ones with a poison gas (i think) breath weapon, but that's not really draconic as much as just... well.... kinda there. Auraks are buff. :D Anyhow, no, draconians only have breath weapons if you buy a feat for them. I would venture to guess that if you want them to have resistances too, i'd make it into a feat, prereq a good Fort save and the breath weapon feat.
#6 The_White_Sorcerer Sep 28, 2003 8:28:46	Originally posted by Magus_Extreme draconians only have breath weapons if you buy a feat for them. That's what I thought.
#7 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2003 9:31:12	Originally posted by Magus_Extreme draconians only have breath weapons if you buy a feat for them. Auraks are the wierd ones with a poison gas (i think) breath weapon, but that's not really draconic as much as just... well.... kinda there. Auraks are buff. :D Anyhow, no, draconians only have breath weapons if you buy a feat for them. I would venture to guess that if you want them to have resistances too, i'd make it into a feat, prereq a good Fort save and the breath weapon feat. I think the reason it is a feat is because it is so damn good! 30' cone 3/day doing 3d8. That's sweet at almost any level. Then there's the improved version. I think that elemental resistance would just add some more flavour to them and highlight their heritage a bit more. Something like as follows: Auraks: fire (5) Sivaks: Cold (5) Kapaks: Acid (5) Bozak: Electricity (5) Bazz: Probably should be fire, but maybe they could do without it.
#8 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2003 9:35:03	Originally posted by Magus_Extreme ... prereq a good Fort save and the breath weapon feat. I think maybe a resistence feat would have to be a prerequsite for a breath weapon. I just thought that if you didn't have one, you would also take damage. Or maybe, you could add resistence automatically when a player earns the breath weapon feat. Just some other options.
#9 The_White_Sorcerer Sep 28, 2003 9:48:28	I think the "Breath Weapon feat is required for the Resistance feat" is more logical than the reverse option. The main reason, IMO, why copper dragons, for example, have acid immunity is so that they wouldn't be hurt by their own breath weapons. So breath comes first, resistance later.
#10 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2003 11:30:16	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer The main reason, IMO, why copper dragons, for example, have acid immunity is so that they wouldn't be hurt by their own breath weapons. So breath comes first, resistance later. This is even more reason why at least Kapaks should have acid resistance. They have acid for blood (well I assume they do, from the death throws) after all. I do like the idea of tacking resistance onto the breath-weapon feat though. The feat is already extremely impressive, a paltry 5 elemental resistance wouldn't make any major difference.
#11 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2003 11:31:38	woudln't be surprised to see feats like this in upcoming Races of Krynn book (no i don't know if it's official, but as every other setting has a book devoted to races (faerun has two), it's possible).
#12 zombiegleemax Sep 28, 2003 11:32:49	Originally posted by Magus_Extreme Auraks are the wierd ones with a poison gas (i think) breath weapon, but that's not really draconic as much as just... well.... kinda there. Auraks are buff. :D As a side mote I just remembered that good dragons used to have 2 breath weapons and a gold dragon's secondary BW was chlorine gas.
#13 The_White_Sorcerer Sep 28, 2003 15:08:16	Originally posted by The man formerly known as Woza As a side mote I just remembered that good dragons used to have 2 breath weapons and a gold dragon's secondary BW was chlorine gas. They still have two breath weapons. Gold dragons have fire and weakening gas.
#14 brimstone Sep 29, 2003 14:18:57	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer They still have two breath weapons. Gold dragons have fire and weakening gas. Unless they changed it for 3.5 Edition (again), then according to the 3rd Edition rules, Gold dragons have Fire breath and a Chlorine like gas breath (caustic gas or something like that).
#15 The_White_Sorcerer Sep 29, 2003 14:27:16	Originally posted by Brimstone *Unless they changed it for 3.5 Edition (again), then according to the 3rd Edition rules, Gold dragons have Fire breath and a Chlorine like gas breath (caustic gas or something like that).* From my 3.0 MM: "A gold dragon has two forms of breath weapon, a cone of fire or a cone of weakening gas." From my 3.5 MM: "A gold dragon has two types of breath weapon, a cone of fire and a cone of weakening gas." Big change.
#16 zombiegleemax Sep 29, 2003 15:00:53	In second ed, Gold dragons had fire and chlorine breaths. they thought this was way too strong (a gold dragon, breathwise, is a red and a green dragon combined), so they gave it a gas that weakens instead.
#17 shugi Sep 29, 2003 15:34:24	Since Krynnish dragons can be harmed by their own type of breath in the novels, I'd leave draconians as they are. Of course, Krynn dragons have these immunities in D&D 3.0 and 3.5, but I've changed them to resistances in my game.
#18 zombiegleemax Sep 29, 2003 20:19:07	That makes sense. In the legend of Huma, Heart killed Char by clamping down on his snot and not letting him expell his acid breath attack. So changing it to resistance is good. Thanks for the idea.
#19 darthsylver Sep 30, 2003 0:08:20	Let us not forget that in "Dalamar the Dark", said dark elf fried a blue dragon with a bolt of lightning, and as far as I know he does not have the feat "energy substitution or spell thematics" in order to make the lightning fire, of make another spell look like a lightning bolt.
#20 brimstone Sep 30, 2003 11:24:46	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer From my 3.0 MM: "A gold dragon has two forms of breath weapon, a cone of fire or a cone of weakening gas." From my 3.5 MM: "A gold dragon has two types of breath weapon, a cone of fire and a cone of weakening gas." Big change. Okay, smart ass...so I was remembering the 2nd ed AD&D. :P
#21 The_White_Sorcerer Sep 30, 2003 11:28:13	Originally posted by Brimstone Okay, smart ass...so I was remembering the 2nd ed AD&D. :P Maybe I should've added a ;) smiley in my post. Yeah, I realized you were thinking of the wrong edition.
#22 brimstone Sep 30, 2003 11:54:20	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer Maybe I should've added a ;) smiley in my post. Yeah, I realized you were thinking of the wrong edition. No need, man. I knew you were just messin' with me. :D
#23 zombiegleemax Oct 01, 2003 12:08:44	I was under the impression that all good dragons have both lethal and non-lethal breath weapons. See the legend of Huma where Gwynneth says exactly that, silvers have both ice and paralysis breath
#24 The_White_Sorcerer Oct 01, 2003 12:21:46	Originally posted by Hunters_blades I was under the impression that all good dragons have both lethal and non-lethal breath weapons. True. Brass: Line of fire and a cone of sleep gas. Copper: Line of acid and cone of slow gas. Bronze: Line of lightning and a cone of repulsion gas. Silver: Cone of cold and a cone of paralyzing gas. Gold: Cone of fire and cone of weakening gas.
#25 zombiegleemax Oct 04, 2003 3:03:45	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer I think the "Breath Weapon feat is required for the Resistance feat" is more logical than the reverse option. The main reason, IMO, why copper dragons, for example, have acid immunity is so that they wouldn't be hurt by their own breath weapons. So breath comes first, resistance later. [/QUOTE Dude, you so totally have it wrong by your own logic - if the breath weapon comes first,that means the dragon is vulnerable to its effects until they pick up resistance to said effects. It makes far more sense for them to be resistant first, which covers any stuff-ups that may occur while they are learning how to utalize their breath weapon and/or hacking off their sibblings/parents.
#26 The_White_Sorcerer Oct 04, 2003 8:19:56	Originally posted by lord zog Dude, you so totally have it wrong by your own logic - if the breath weapon comes first,that means the dragon is vulnerable to its effects until they pick up resistance to said effects. It makes far more sense for them to be resistant first, which covers any stuff-ups that may occur while they are learning how to utalize their breath weapon and/or hacking off their sibblings/parents. What I meant is, a breath weapon is the reason for the immunity. Dragons get both at the same time, they just wouldn't get immunity if they didn't get a breath weapon.