Why I hate settings that aren't GH - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Why I hate settings that aren't GH

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Sep 29, 2003 2:58:25 ...taking a good idea and incorporating GH:

GH fans tend to hate other campaign settings for one reason or another. Why do you hate settings that aren't GH and what does GH have that fulfills that oh-so-important need?

(Sample)

Why I hate FR

by DDK (aka Delglath)

I hate FR because [it doesn't smell good] and Ed Greenwood is [not a good designer]. R.A. Salvatore is an amateur and couldn't write himself off in a head on collision. The Avatar wars were a lame effort to explain the transition between rules systems and were [stupid] also. Egyptians [are bad]. And what's with that Amazonian thing. Elminster is also [not a good character].

(Greyhawk has none of these things, therefore it is better.)

Parenthetical conclusion my own.

(Another sample)

Why I hate home brew worlds that include every d20 product known to man

by airwalkrr

I hate hbwtiedpktm because they have no flavor. Half-drow cleric assassins of Lolth walk down the street while Kender pick their pockets and Fists of Hextor beat up Kalamarans for their lunch money they earned by helping a samurai. I don't have time to keep track of so many different races, religions, nations, monsters, and prestige classes. DMs need to be more creative than just allowing any d20 product into their game.

Greyhawk on the other hand has a distinct feel. There are very few GH-specific prestige classes, and the savvy DM ensures that most PrCs are politically or socially related to a character somehow. A Mask of Joyhdee for example has a purpose and a precise place within the world of Oerth. It has a vaguely medieval feel to it, with some hints of greater technology, although gunpowder apparently does not work.
#2
Argon
Sep 29, 2003 6:29:15 For me GH is more of a preference than a hatred of other settings. FR doesn't utilize its nations enough. You have Zentil Keep base of the dreaded Zhentarium who can't conquer little towns and villages but can cross the worlds largest desert and be involved in politics thousands of miles away from their home base. It doesn't make sense. FR has to much of a black & white setting. Everyone knows who the so-called bad guys are and who the good guys are. Racials tensions are never really exploted and the setting fears changes. Now I know many people who have altered their FR campaign a bit. But IMHO their are many things wrong with the setting that need correction.
I actually like the DL setting it tends to possess a slightly lower level of magic use than GH. But the thing that kills the setting for me is the over use of dragons in the campaign. Dragons are treated like beasts of burden instead of a truely magnificent race. Unfortunately changing this in the DL game takes about a third of what is cannon from the setting. Which could still be usable.
DS to me had some good gaming ideas. I didn't like the half-giant race, I always thought that Ogre's would of made more sense for the setting. In norse mythology dragons and giants were equally dangerous, with fear and awe inspiring essences. So if you have half-giants then where are the giants of this world and what places have they carved out as their domains. Also wouldn't they be able to contend with the dragons of Athas. Secondly I prefer a medieval based campaign setting GH works fine for me their.
Ravenloft for me failed because of the inclusion of the standard characters races being included in it's folds. I think a gothic feel set around a renaissance type setting with human subraces instead of demi-human subraces would of worked better. Secondly lycanthropes, undead, and frankenstein type scientists would of made this setting more workable. Heck, even magic use in a low level format could work here because it has more fear inspiring effects for this setting. Think sleepy hollow when you invision Ravenloft. That would of made the setting perfect IMO.
GH has it's rough edges as well, but the history behind each nation and the amount of polictical intrigue really makes GH a winner for me. I have changed many things that would be considered cannon for most GH fans. But some of my changes have made my GH campaign seem a little more chock full of GH flavor for me.
So their you have it. Not really a hatred for other settings but more of a preference for the GH setting. So play what you like but I'll be roaming in GH.
#3
samwise
Sep 29, 2003 15:08:38 1. Why does it matter?
2. What does it achieve to discuss it?

This is the GH forum. How about talking about GH directly? And not in comparison to others, but as GH itself. If there is something in another setting that you like, talk about incorporating it into GH if you wish, but the negative comparisons are pretty much a general waste of time.
#4
zombiegleemax
Sep 29, 2003 16:15:51
Originally posted by Samwise
1. Why does it matter?

Because, like it or not, people in the GH forum have always, and probably will always complain about other settings. Delglath started this thread to put all the complaints in one place so people wouldn't have to worry about running into rants in all the other threads.

Originally posted by Samwise
2. What does it achieve to discuss it?

Venting. People like to do it. Especially Greyhawkers.

Originally posted by Samwise
This is the GH forum. How about talking about GH directly? And not in comparison to others, but as GH itself. If there is something in another setting that you like, talk about incorporating it into GH if you wish, but the negative comparisons are pretty much a general waste of time.

If negativity is your problem then so is hypocrisy.
#5
zombiegleemax
Sep 29, 2003 16:57:08 As Samwise said, its all a bit pointless IMHO. I'd rather see people put the energy into interesting GH posts not bash FR after all why vent when a smug feeling of superiority over the Elmunchkin lovers is all you need :D

Also the last realms bashing thread got closed down pretty quick so I guess the moderators opinions on all this is pretty obvious.
#6
samwise
Sep 29, 2003 19:01:33 "Because, like it or not, people in the GH forum have always, and probably will always complain about other settings. Delglath started this thread to put all the complaints in one place so people wouldn't have to worry about running into rants in all the other threads."

So yet ANOTHER thread.

"Venting. People like to do it. Especially Greyhawkers."

But it isn't venting. It's useless distraction.

"If negativity is your problem then so is hypocrisy."

It isn't.
But apparently like so many others, civility is one of your problems.
#7
samwise
Sep 29, 2003 19:03:36 And the number one reason it is a waste of time . . .

Originally posted by StevieS
Also the last realms bashing thread got closed down pretty quick so I guess the moderators opinions on all this is pretty obvious.

#8
zombiegleemax
Sep 29, 2003 22:13:35
Originally posted by airwalkrr
Delglath started this thread to put all the complaints in one place so people wouldn't have to worry about running into rants in all the other threads.

Err... I did it because I was tired of seeing it always crop up in every damn thread. And if you couldn't tell, I was being just a tad facetious about it. In other words, I agree with Samwise that it's a waste of time and energy.

And the thread got closed down because of Yamo the Humourless.
#9
zombiegleemax
Oct 01, 2003 1:43:39 meh
#10
ranger_reg
Oct 04, 2003 20:53:22 As an open-minded diverse gamer who plays Greyhawk (although not as often), Forgotten Realms, and Dragonlance, I find it hard to believe that the majority of Greyhawk fan community are ignorant and prejudicial to other game settings. To have pride in your interest is one thing, but bashing other interests does nothing to advocate your own.

Find another means, or I will report this to the moderator.
#11
zombiegleemax
Oct 05, 2003 8:39:29
Originally posted by Ranger REG
Find another means, or I will report this to the moderator.

Man that's lame.
#12
zombiegleemax
Oct 05, 2003 13:27:08 Heheh, figured I'd pop in and say that Greyhawk for me is just my favorite, I don't make it a point to bash other settings and I use them (well, the ones I have anyway) frequently. And as for the guy who said he'd report the thread...get a life, its not like anyones making real world rascist comments or anything, we're talking about fake worlds...so there's really no big deal in my opinion...
#13
ranger_reg
Oct 05, 2003 15:30:05 I simply do not wish to feel unwelcome or discriminated on this forum as you have just shown me, Coldpenguin625, just because I happens to play other settings besides Greyhawk.

Mind you, I want Wizards to aggressively maintain this product line by putting out more products including a Greyhawk Campaign Sourcebook, and not let RPGA take over it, regardless of their current status. No offense intended, Erik Mona.

However, you are entitled to your own personal opinion.
#14
zombiegleemax
Oct 11, 2003 2:48:20 You know, this was supposed to be a little bit of harmless fun. Some of you are making it into a full-blown scandal. At least give me some credit for putting a more positive spin on this idea and focusing it more on Greyhawk.
#15
zombiegleemax
Oct 11, 2003 6:47:12 BOO-HOO! The off button is always available y'know.

Originally posted by Ranger REG
I simply do not wish to feel unwelcome or discriminated on this forum as you have just shown me, Coldpenguin625, just because I happens to play other settings besides Greyhawk.

#16
zombiegleemax
Oct 12, 2003 10:45:27 Not a scandle, it just gets old hearing the bashing from the puristic sense. I simply fail to understand, even with the umpteen hundred posts about it, why almost any GH discussion boils down to a bashing of some other setting, mostly FR. Bash FR in the FR forums. Or better yet, turn the vented frustration into a little more of positive and productive output. Its simply so trying when more than half the threads contain some negative and derrogatory coments meant to push GH higher up the ladder (which is fine) and push every other setting down (which is not). Praise at the expense of something else is not priase at all. It also has a very negative impact on the community itself that short-sightedness may fail to notice. I know people who feel the GH community itself to be full of anti-[insert any other campaign setting], so much so that they are turned off of community participation, even if they are avid GH fans.
#17
zombiegleemax
Oct 12, 2003 20:25:22
Originally posted by Mach2.5
I know people who feel the GH community itself to be full of anti-[insert any other campaign setting], so much so that they are turned off of community participation, even if they are avid GH fans.

Although I personally dislike FR, I've learned not to disparage against it. I do still joke about hating it and make the odd derogatory comment, but mainly I do so in all good humour.

At the moment, I'm only anti-hag. And that's only because Aeolius has discriminated against a derivation of my favourite word. ****tard :D
#18
Aeolius
Oct 12, 2003 21:04:40
Originally posted by Delglath
At the moment, I'm only anti-hag. And that's only because Aeolius has discriminated against a derivation of my favourite word. ****tard :D

To each their own.
#19
heretic_apostate
Oct 12, 2003 23:09:52 I think that Greyhawk is a very valuable setting, one I like to data-mine. Especially for the gods (I much prefer the neutral god of magic to FR's Mystra, though the whole Weave/Shadow Weave thing is cool).

I data-mine many settings: Forgotten Realms, Birthright, Dark Sun, Planescape, Dragonlance, Kingdoms of Kalamar, and even Greyhawk. No setting totally satisfies me.

I also data-mine various roleplaying systems: d20, GURPS, SWRPG, and Alternity. I want to develop a system that feels right to me.

Will I ever get it finished? Nope. But it costs less than buying a bunch of game cartridges, or watching a bunch of movies...

Dang, why aren't there any gaming groups in my area?!?!
#20
mr._vandermeer
Oct 13, 2003 7:20:50 "data-mining" I had never heard of the word, but I do that too. I have used Greyhawk as a basis for many years though.
#21
zombiegleemax
Oct 14, 2003 10:16:31 When I first started up with 2nd edition I played FR. When 3rd edition came along my group started to play that, and I've never regreted that. In my opinion FR is to detailed, there regions got more source materials than whole of Greyhawk combined. I also like Greyhawks "grey zone" ie wherever there is evil there ain't a überbuffed Elminster/whatever helping the pc's or kicking evils butt. The exceptional überpower forces in FR tends to **** me off, and I find it to be no fun at all.

Besides I find the story behind Greyhawk much more intriguing, and leaves more to the imagination. You can also be evil without meeting a 40th lvl epic character whooping you around like a barbie doll.

FR might be a nice setting to begin roleplaying in since it is such a load of source material for it, but after I've played Greyhawk setting I won't touch it with a 10foot pole.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Sep 29, 2003 2:58:25	...taking a good idea and incorporating GH: GH fans tend to hate other campaign settings for one reason or another. Why do you hate settings that aren't GH and what does GH have that fulfills that oh-so-important need? (Sample) Why I hate FR by DDK (aka Delglath) I hate FR because [it doesn't smell good] and Ed Greenwood is [not a good designer]. R.A. Salvatore is an amateur and couldn't write himself off in a head on collision. The Avatar wars were a lame effort to explain the transition between rules systems and were [stupid] also. Egyptians [are bad]. And what's with that Amazonian thing. Elminster is also [not a good character]. (Greyhawk has none of these things, therefore it is better.) Parenthetical conclusion my own. (Another sample) Why I hate home brew worlds that include every d20 product known to man by airwalkrr I hate hbwtiedpktm because they have no flavor. Half-drow cleric assassins of Lolth walk down the street while Kender pick their pockets and Fists of Hextor beat up Kalamarans for their lunch money they earned by helping a samurai. I don't have time to keep track of so many different races, religions, nations, monsters, and prestige classes. DMs need to be more creative than just allowing any d20 product into their game. Greyhawk on the other hand has a distinct feel. There are very few GH-specific prestige classes, and the savvy DM ensures that most PrCs are politically or socially related to a character somehow. A Mask of Joyhdee for example has a purpose and a precise place within the world of Oerth. It has a vaguely medieval feel to it, with some hints of greater technology, although gunpowder apparently does not work.
#2 Argon Sep 29, 2003 6:29:15	For me GH is more of a preference than a hatred of other settings. FR doesn't utilize its nations enough. You have Zentil Keep base of the dreaded Zhentarium who can't conquer little towns and villages but can cross the worlds largest desert and be involved in politics thousands of miles away from their home base. It doesn't make sense. FR has to much of a black & white setting. Everyone knows who the so-called bad guys are and who the good guys are. Racials tensions are never really exploted and the setting fears changes. Now I know many people who have altered their FR campaign a bit. But IMHO their are many things wrong with the setting that need correction. I actually like the DL setting it tends to possess a slightly lower level of magic use than GH. But the thing that kills the setting for me is the over use of dragons in the campaign. Dragons are treated like beasts of burden instead of a truely magnificent race. Unfortunately changing this in the DL game takes about a third of what is cannon from the setting. Which could still be usable. DS to me had some good gaming ideas. I didn't like the half-giant race, I always thought that Ogre's would of made more sense for the setting. In norse mythology dragons and giants were equally dangerous, with fear and awe inspiring essences. So if you have half-giants then where are the giants of this world and what places have they carved out as their domains. Also wouldn't they be able to contend with the dragons of Athas. Secondly I prefer a medieval based campaign setting GH works fine for me their. Ravenloft for me failed because of the inclusion of the standard characters races being included in it's folds. I think a gothic feel set around a renaissance type setting with human subraces instead of demi-human subraces would of worked better. Secondly lycanthropes, undead, and frankenstein type scientists would of made this setting more workable. Heck, even magic use in a low level format could work here because it has more fear inspiring effects for this setting. Think sleepy hollow when you invision Ravenloft. That would of made the setting perfect IMO. GH has it's rough edges as well, but the history behind each nation and the amount of polictical intrigue really makes GH a winner for me. I have changed many things that would be considered cannon for most GH fans. But some of my changes have made my GH campaign seem a little more chock full of GH flavor for me. So their you have it. Not really a hatred for other settings but more of a preference for the GH setting. So play what you like but I'll be roaming in GH.
#3 samwise Sep 29, 2003 15:08:38	1. Why does it matter? 2. What does it achieve to discuss it? This is the GH forum. How about talking about GH directly? And not in comparison to others, but as GH itself. If there is something in another setting that you like, talk about incorporating it into GH if you wish, but the negative comparisons are pretty much a general waste of time.
#4 zombiegleemax Sep 29, 2003 16:15:51	Originally posted by Samwise 1. Why does it matter? Because, like it or not, people in the GH forum have always, and probably will always complain about other settings. Delglath started this thread to put all the complaints in one place so people wouldn't have to worry about running into rants in all the other threads. Originally posted by Samwise 2. What does it achieve to discuss it? Venting. People like to do it. Especially Greyhawkers. Originally posted by Samwise This is the GH forum. How about talking about GH directly? And not in comparison to others, but as GH itself. If there is something in another setting that you like, talk about incorporating it into GH if you wish, but the negative comparisons are pretty much a general waste of time. If negativity is your problem then so is hypocrisy.
#5 zombiegleemax Sep 29, 2003 16:57:08	As Samwise said, its all a bit pointless IMHO. I'd rather see people put the energy into interesting GH posts not bash FR after all why vent when a smug feeling of superiority over the Elmunchkin lovers is all you need :D Also the last realms bashing thread got closed down pretty quick so I guess the moderators opinions on all this is pretty obvious.
#6 samwise Sep 29, 2003 19:01:33	"Because, like it or not, people in the GH forum have always, and probably will always complain about other settings. Delglath started this thread to put all the complaints in one place so people wouldn't have to worry about running into rants in all the other threads." So yet ANOTHER thread. "Venting. People like to do it. Especially Greyhawkers." But it isn't venting. It's useless distraction. "If negativity is your problem then so is hypocrisy." It isn't. But apparently like so many others, civility is one of your problems.
#7 samwise Sep 29, 2003 19:03:36	And the number one reason it is a waste of time . . . Originally posted by StevieS Also the last realms bashing thread got closed down pretty quick so I guess the moderators opinions on all this is pretty obvious.
#8 zombiegleemax Sep 29, 2003 22:13:35	Originally posted by airwalkrr Delglath started this thread to put all the complaints in one place so people wouldn't have to worry about running into rants in all the other threads. Err... I did it because I was tired of seeing it always crop up in every damn thread. And if you couldn't tell, I was being just a tad facetious about it. In other words, I agree with Samwise that it's a waste of time and energy. And the thread got closed down because of Yamo the Humourless.
#9 zombiegleemax Oct 01, 2003 1:43:39	meh
#10 ranger_reg Oct 04, 2003 20:53:22	As an open-minded diverse gamer who plays Greyhawk (although not as often), Forgotten Realms, and Dragonlance, I find it hard to believe that the majority of Greyhawk fan community are ignorant and prejudicial to other game settings. To have pride in your interest is one thing, but bashing other interests does nothing to advocate your own. Find another means, or I will report this to the moderator.
#11 zombiegleemax Oct 05, 2003 8:39:29	Originally posted by Ranger REG Find another means, or I will report this to the moderator. Man that's lame.
#12 zombiegleemax Oct 05, 2003 13:27:08	Heheh, figured I'd pop in and say that Greyhawk for me is just my favorite, I don't make it a point to bash other settings and I use them (well, the ones I have anyway) frequently. And as for the guy who said he'd report the thread...get a life, its not like anyones making real world rascist comments or anything, we're talking about fake worlds...so there's really no big deal in my opinion...
#13 ranger_reg Oct 05, 2003 15:30:05	I simply do not wish to feel unwelcome or discriminated on this forum as you have just shown me, Coldpenguin625, just because I happens to play other settings besides Greyhawk. Mind you, I want Wizards to aggressively maintain this product line by putting out more products including a Greyhawk Campaign Sourcebook, and not let RPGA take over it, regardless of their current status. No offense intended, Erik Mona. However, you are entitled to your own personal opinion.
#14 zombiegleemax Oct 11, 2003 2:48:20	You know, this was supposed to be a little bit of harmless fun. Some of you are making it into a full-blown scandal. At least give me some credit for putting a more positive spin on this idea and focusing it more on Greyhawk.
#15 zombiegleemax Oct 11, 2003 6:47:12	BOO-HOO! The off button is always available y'know. Originally posted by Ranger REG I simply do not wish to feel unwelcome or discriminated on this forum as you have just shown me, Coldpenguin625, just because I happens to play other settings besides Greyhawk.
#16 zombiegleemax Oct 12, 2003 10:45:27	Not a scandle, it just gets old hearing the bashing from the puristic sense. I simply fail to understand, even with the umpteen hundred posts about it, why almost any GH discussion boils down to a bashing of some other setting, mostly FR. Bash FR in the FR forums. Or better yet, turn the vented frustration into a little more of positive and productive output. Its simply so trying when more than half the threads contain some negative and derrogatory coments meant to push GH higher up the ladder (which is fine) and push every other setting down (which is not). Praise at the expense of something else is not priase at all. It also has a very negative impact on the community itself that short-sightedness may fail to notice. I know people who feel the GH community itself to be full of anti-[insert any other campaign setting], so much so that they are turned off of community participation, even if they are avid GH fans.
#17 zombiegleemax Oct 12, 2003 20:25:22	Originally posted by Mach2.5 I know people who feel the GH community itself to be full of anti-[insert any other campaign setting], so much so that they are turned off of community participation, even if they are avid GH fans. Although I personally dislike FR, I've learned not to disparage against it. I do still joke about hating it and make the odd derogatory comment, but mainly I do so in all good humour. At the moment, I'm only anti-hag. And that's only because Aeolius has discriminated against a derivation of my favourite word. ****tard :D
#18 Aeolius Oct 12, 2003 21:04:40	Originally posted by Delglath At the moment, I'm only anti-hag. And that's only because Aeolius has discriminated against a derivation of my favourite word. tard :D To each their own.
#19 heretic_apostate Oct 12, 2003 23:09:52	I think that Greyhawk is a very valuable setting, one I like to data-mine. Especially for the gods (I much prefer the neutral god of magic to FR's Mystra, though the whole Weave/Shadow Weave thing is cool). I data-mine many settings: Forgotten Realms, Birthright, Dark Sun, Planescape, Dragonlance, Kingdoms of Kalamar, and even Greyhawk. No setting totally satisfies me. I also data-mine various roleplaying systems: d20, GURPS, SWRPG, and Alternity. I want to develop a system that feels right to me. Will I ever get it finished? Nope. But it costs less than buying a bunch of game cartridges, or watching a bunch of movies... Dang, why aren't there any gaming groups in my area?!?!
#20 mr._vandermeer Oct 13, 2003 7:20:50	"data-mining" I had never heard of the word, but I do that too. I have used Greyhawk as a basis for many years though.
#21 zombiegleemax Oct 14, 2003 10:16:31	When I first started up with 2nd edition I played FR. When 3rd edition came along my group started to play that, and I've never regreted that. In my opinion FR is to detailed, there regions got more source materials than whole of Greyhawk combined. I also like Greyhawks "grey zone" ie wherever there is evil there ain't a überbuffed Elminster/whatever helping the pc's or kicking evils butt. The exceptional überpower forces in FR tends to **** me off, and I find it to be no fun at all. Besides I find the story behind Greyhawk much more intriguing, and leaves more to the imagination. You can also be evil without meeting a 40th lvl epic character whooping you around like a barbie doll. FR might be a nice setting to begin roleplaying in since it is such a load of source material for it, but after I've played Greyhawk setting I won't touch it with a 10foot pole.