Ecl - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Ecl

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Oct 01, 2003 16:32:27 Thank Gods someone explained what on earth was that misterious "ECL" I swear I was about to go nuts... trying to guess what was it....

Does a ECL 3 it means that I'll have to conquer 4 levels just to get to the first Cass Level??
#2
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Oct 01, 2003 17:57:52 ECL, LA, CL, EL and other alphabet soup is all explained, quantified and very well defined in the 3.5 FAQ for D&D, up on the D&D Website.

To answer your question - no. If you have, like the thri-kreen, an ECL of 3 (2 HD +1 LA), then if you started with only that (no class levels) you would automatically start with 3000 XP (minimum for 3rd level). You would then need another 3000 (current ECL of 3 x 1000 xp) XP to aquire your next level (class level).

A character starting out as above, but is also a 1st level psychic warrior would start with 6000 xp (2 HD + 1 LA + 1 lvl PsyWar = 4th level, or 6000 xp). That character would need 4000 (current ECL 4 x 1000) xp to make level 2.
#3
zombiegleemax
Oct 01, 2003 22:00:35 Is it fair with other players that start with normal characters that doesn't have ECLs ??
A 1st level human fighter would have 0 xp at the begining.... how could that be balanced with a thri-kreen ECL 3??? (That starts with 3.000 xp??)

Starting to get dizzy...
#4
flip
Oct 01, 2003 22:15:40
Originally posted by Fabrício Madruga Lopes
Is it fair with other players that start with normal characters that doesn't have ECLs ??
A 1st level human fighter would have 0 xp at the begining.... how could that be balanced with a thri-kreen ECL 3??? (That starts with 3.000 xp??)

Starting to get dizzy...

The entire point of is it to be balanced. Unless you're a really inconsistant DM, you don't do what you described above ... you don't allow thri-kreen into the party until the rest of the party is at third level. Just like I wouldn't allow a 3rd level fighter into the party if everyone else is 1st level. (Unless I had really specific reasons for doing so, of course)

ECL is intended as, among other things, a gauge of just where you should be allowing certain races to enter in. Unlike in DS(12) where thri-kreen were allowed in from your starting level, and were incredibly unbalanced.

For all intents and purposes, ECL means that your character is that level. And ECL 6 Thri-kreen (LA +1, 2 kreen HD, 3 class levels) is a 6th level character, and would function in a party of 6th level characters just fine.
#5
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Oct 02, 2003 0:08:11 As flip said. Also, I usually (for any d20 game) let my players choose their races, then I use that to determine the starting level (or ECL) for the campaign working off of the ECL of the races chosen. For example: If I started a Dark Sun campaign where there was a Mul, Thri-Kreen, Half-Giant and two Humans, I'd look at the highest ECL (Thri-Kreen & Half-Giant) which is 3, and then I'd see that the two races with the highest ECL's have starting Hit Dice as well. So I'd start at level 3, but not below it. This means that the Humans have to not only make their characters, but also advance them 2 more levels beyond the first, and the Mul has to only advance his character to level 2. The Thri-Kreen and Half-Giant don't get a class level until after the game's started and they advance to their ECL of 4.

With Dark Sun in particular, I tend to start people off at level 3 when I begin my campaigns - it's just easier that way, however I only let them get the starting money of a 1st level character, which helps with giving the feel of the difficulty and harsh nature of Athas - however it's amazing how fast players can get their characters to acquire wealth when that is what they focus on.
#6
zombiegleemax
Oct 02, 2003 8:21:05 Hum... got it!

My DM was using some aproximated rule for these special cases..
Even being ECL 3 I would start with 0 xp as others...

The diference between my character a normal was that as I attained 1.000 xp I just gained a HD (without even having a class), while others gained a Level on their respective classes...

I would only be 1st leve (some class) when attained 4th character level:

1 character level 1HD
2 character levels 2HD
3 character levels (acquired some special race abilities)
4 character levels 1st class level (finally..)
#7
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Oct 02, 2003 11:41:59 The difference in XP should be 1,000 x (starting HD + LA). 1st level Thri-Kreen Psychic Warrior, for example, needs 4,000 XP to get to level 2 (ECL of 5), while a 1st level Half-Elf Psychic Warrior needs a mere 1,000 exp to make level 2. So to make the same character level, the Thri-Kreen needs an extra 2,000 XP. If you started the Thri-Kreen at 0 XP, you'd be punishing it, as the Thri-Kreen would need 10,000 XP to make level 2 Psychic Warrior, instead of only 4,000. It's the same situation of whenever you apply any templates that raise a characters' Level Adjustment (like Vampire, Ghost, Lich, Celestial, Fiendish, Half-Dragon, etc.) - their Level Adjustment goes up, and they get set to the very lowest amount of XP required to make their new ECL before moving on. And before you ask - yes, Level Adjustments stack.
#8
zombiegleemax
Oct 02, 2003 13:13:33 Thanks! :D

If all the dragons had your patience... (sight...)
#9
xlorepdarkhelm_dup
Oct 02, 2003 15:41:21 No problem, I had to browbeat my players with this a bit, luckily one of them is also a DM, and the two of us are the closest to "rules lawyers" there are (only because we actually read the rules, as opposed to others in the group that don't bother reading the books at all - I kid you not - I have a player in my group that doesn't even read the book to make a charater - he gets someone else to look it up for him).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Oct 01, 2003 16:32:27	Thank Gods someone explained what on earth was that misterious "ECL" I swear I was about to go nuts... trying to guess what was it.... Does a ECL 3 it means that I'll have to conquer 4 levels just to get to the first Cass Level??
#2 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Oct 01, 2003 17:57:52	ECL, LA, CL, EL and other alphabet soup is all explained, quantified and very well defined in the 3.5 FAQ for D&D, up on the D&D Website. To answer your question - no. If you have, like the thri-kreen, an ECL of 3 (2 HD +1 LA), then if you started with only that (no class levels) you would automatically start with 3000 XP (minimum for 3rd level). You would then need another 3000 (current ECL of 3 x 1000 xp) XP to aquire your next level (class level). A character starting out as above, but is also a 1st level psychic warrior would start with 6000 xp (2 HD + 1 LA + 1 lvl PsyWar = 4th level, or 6000 xp). That character would need 4000 (current ECL 4 x 1000) xp to make level 2.
#3 zombiegleemax Oct 01, 2003 22:00:35	Is it fair with other players that start with normal characters that doesn't have ECLs ?? A 1st level human fighter would have 0 xp at the begining.... how could that be balanced with a thri-kreen ECL 3??? (That starts with 3.000 xp??) Starting to get dizzy...
#4 flip Oct 01, 2003 22:15:40	Originally posted by Fabrício Madruga Lopes Is it fair with other players that start with normal characters that doesn't have ECLs ?? A 1st level human fighter would have 0 xp at the begining.... how could that be balanced with a thri-kreen ECL 3??? (That starts with 3.000 xp??) Starting to get dizzy... The entire point of is it to be balanced. Unless you're a really inconsistant DM, you don't do what you described above ... you don't allow thri-kreen into the party until the rest of the party is at third level. Just like I wouldn't allow a 3rd level fighter into the party if everyone else is 1st level. (Unless I had really specific reasons for doing so, of course) ECL is intended as, among other things, a gauge of just where you should be allowing certain races to enter in. Unlike in DS(12) where thri-kreen were allowed in from your starting level, and were incredibly unbalanced. For all intents and purposes, ECL means that your character is that level. And ECL 6 Thri-kreen (LA +1, 2 kreen HD, 3 class levels) is a 6th level character, and would function in a party of 6th level characters just fine.
#5 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Oct 02, 2003 0:08:11	As flip said. Also, I usually (for any d20 game) let my players choose their races, then I use that to determine the starting level (or ECL) for the campaign working off of the ECL of the races chosen. For example: If I started a Dark Sun campaign where there was a Mul, Thri-Kreen, Half-Giant and two Humans, I'd look at the highest ECL (Thri-Kreen & Half-Giant) which is 3, and then I'd see that the two races with the highest ECL's have starting Hit Dice as well. So I'd start at level 3, but not below it. This means that the Humans have to not only make their characters, but also advance them 2 more levels beyond the first, and the Mul has to only advance his character to level 2. The Thri-Kreen and Half-Giant don't get a class level until after the game's started and they advance to their ECL of 4. With Dark Sun in particular, I tend to start people off at level 3 when I begin my campaigns - it's just easier that way, however I only let them get the starting money of a 1st level character, which helps with giving the feel of the difficulty and harsh nature of Athas - however it's amazing how fast players can get their characters to acquire wealth when that is what they focus on.
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 02, 2003 8:21:05	Hum... got it! My DM was using some aproximated rule for these special cases.. Even being ECL 3 I would start with 0 xp as others... The diference between my character a normal was that as I attained 1.000 xp I just gained a HD (without even having a class), while others gained a Level on their respective classes... I would only be 1st leve (some class) when attained 4th character level: 1 character level 1HD 2 character levels 2HD 3 character levels (acquired some special race abilities) 4 character levels 1st class level (finally..)
#7 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Oct 02, 2003 11:41:59	The difference in XP should be 1,000 x (starting HD + LA). 1st level Thri-Kreen Psychic Warrior, for example, needs 4,000 XP to get to level 2 (ECL of 5), while a 1st level Half-Elf Psychic Warrior needs a mere 1,000 exp to make level 2. So to make the same character level, the Thri-Kreen needs an extra 2,000 XP. If you started the Thri-Kreen at 0 XP, you'd be punishing it, as the Thri-Kreen would need 10,000 XP to make level 2 Psychic Warrior, instead of only 4,000. It's the same situation of whenever you apply any templates that raise a characters' Level Adjustment (like Vampire, Ghost, Lich, Celestial, Fiendish, Half-Dragon, etc.) - their Level Adjustment goes up, and they get set to the very lowest amount of XP required to make their new ECL before moving on. And before you ask - yes, Level Adjustments stack.
#8 zombiegleemax Oct 02, 2003 13:13:33	Thanks! :D If all the dragons had your patience... (sight...)
#9 xlorepdarkhelm_dup Oct 02, 2003 15:41:21	No problem, I had to browbeat my players with this a bit, luckily one of them is also a DM, and the two of us are the closest to "rules lawyers" there are (only because we actually read the rules, as opposed to others in the group that don't bother reading the books at all - I kid you not - I have a player in my group that doesn't even read the book to make a charater - he gets someone else to look it up for him).