In order to take the Wizard of High Sorcery PrC, you have to be able to prepare 2nd level spells.
Since there is no way sorcerors can take the prestige class, does that mean even White robed wizards would hunt them down and kill them? Or do you actually think they would just try to "prevent" them from using their spells?
Just wondering your thoughts
First, and probably the most simple, sorcerers are treated as before and given the choice of joining the order and those that do, take the test and are members (no stats to back this up, no feat, no class, just a membership card).
Second, still pretty easy, but a little bit of a pain, sorcerers can take take the test, pick the feat Arcane Preparation (from FRCS, & T&B) and use the generalist wizard option (AoM sourcebook) and take the prestigle class.
I am sure there are more options but these two come to mind.
Right when the Gods left, the clerics and wizards have the option to convert to the "new" magic.
When the Gods come back, the mystics and sorcerors have the option to convert to the "old" magic if they want.
Now that all four magic-users are available, do people think that sorcerors should always have the option to convert whenever they feel like it? Same goes for mystics, clerics, wizards. To me, and this might just be my opinion, I see it as a bad thing if one class can just convert whenever they feel like it into a new one.
I understand why they could when powerful events happened, but now that all four classes are available, I dont think its right.
More comments always appreciated.
Maybe let older sorcerors and mystics to convert, if they "had" to start out as their class, or were even old enough to originally be of an old class, had to switch to the new one, and then wanted to switch to the old one again after all the events happened.
But new, or young, sorcerors, wizards, clerics, and mystics I don't personally think should just be able to switch their class whenever they feel like it. I think it takes away from some of the work a person did in putting effort and time into a class and then just deciding "I'd rather be the other one", Woosh! they are the other class.
But new, or young, sorcerors, wizards, clerics, and mystics I don't personally think should just be able to switch their class whenever they feel like it. I think it takes away from some of the work a person did in putting effort and time into a class and then just deciding "I'd rather be the other one", Woosh! they are the other class.
There are rules for this in the DLCS. To sum up: First of all the caster needs to experience some sort of epiphany. Such as a Mystic being touched by the gods and deciding to be a cleric. When he gains his next level he takes a level in cleric and casts spells as a 1st level cleric. When he levels again he trades in his levels in mystic for levels in cleric. The rules go into a little bit about how to go from sorceror to wizard, wizard to sorceror, etc etc. But its not something that a character can do every other day.
FR
Originally posted by darthsylver
Second, still pretty easy, but a little bit of a pain, sorcerers can take take the test, pick the feat Arcane Preparation (from FRCS, & T&B) and use the generalist wizard option (AoM sourcebook) and take the prestigle class.
I would highly advise against the Arcane Preparation feat in Dragonlance.
Think about what it represents. It's more than a mechanic. It signifies where one's magic comes from. Note that all spellcasters who cast "on the fly" are ambient spellcasters, and that all who prepare magic gain magic from the gods.
Let's say, for example, that a sorcerer takes the feat. One of two things could happen in a game. First, the sorcerer may draw his magic from the moons. He would be the only sorcerer to have done this, and may be looked at in an odd light from the WoHS. I'm not sure if they would welcome him or not. I would imagine that they would since he would gain his magic through High Sorcery, but would want to study how he cast magic.
This option, of course, goes against what a sorcerer is in Dragonlance, and would be considered non-standard.
The second (and more likely) option is that the sorcerer prepares Wild Sorcery (not so wild, eh?). Yes, he casts arcane spells with preparation. Yet he still draws his energies from Wild Sorcery, rather than High Sorcery. This would still make him a renegade.
Either route, the sorcerer still casts magic innately, and does not carry a spellbook. Unless he gains his magic from High Sorcery, it's the life of a renegade for him.
Originally posted by True_Blue
As Weis has said that sorcerors are renegades, does that mean all sorcerors are hunted down and killed?
Imo, this is not something to be concerned about, at the moment, from an in-world point of view in present day Krynn.
Mostly I think this due to the fact that the Orders have to get reorganized, which would take time to do.
They just don't have the ability to go hunting anybody down.
Of course, this will eventually lead to a power struggle between the two groups (what else could happen?
Now, in previous Ages, I'm of the opinion that it was likely that some sorcerers existed, and they didn't know it was sorcery. Either way, they were treated as renegades by the Orders.
The Wizards of High Sorcery, as a whole, might not go hunting down sorcerors who are renegades, but what happens if a White Rope PC comes across a renegade, should they just let him go and do magic because "we aren't structured yet"? I'm just wondering what people think a White Robed PC should do in the situation.
Would each sorceror have the opportunity to switch to wizard whenever they are found out? I don't know if I like that a sorceror can change automatically just to be part of the Tower. I wouldn't mind seeing a prestige class for sorcerors that they can be an affiliate of the Towers of High Sorcery, something maybe like the Auxilary Mage for the Solamnics. I think this would be better than each sorceror, when they are found out, automatically getting to experience a Soulfoge and switch to a wizard.
I would highly advise against the Arcane Preparation feat in Dragonlance.
Think about what it represents. It's more than a mechanic. It signifies where one's magic comes from. Note that all spellcasters who cast "on the fly" are ambient spellcasters, and that all who prepare magic gain magic from the gods.
Let's say, for example, that a sorcerer takes the feat. One of two things could happen in a game. First, the sorcerer may draw his magic from the moons. He would be the only sorcerer to have done this, and may be looked at in an odd light from the WoHS. I'm not sure if they would welcome him or not. I would imagine that they would since he would gain his magic through High Sorcery, but would want to study how he cast magic.
This option, of course, goes against what a sorcerer is in Dragonlance, and would be considered non-standard.
The second (and more likely) option is that the sorcerer prepares Wild Sorcery (not so wild, eh?). Yes, he casts arcane spells with preparation. Yet he still draws his energies from Wild Sorcery, rather than High Sorcery. This would still make him a renegade.
Either route, the sorcerer still casts magic innately, and does not carry a spellbook. Unless he gains his magic from High Sorcery, it's the life of a renegade for him.
O-kay, as far as your first response in saying that this option (Arcane preparation) goes against everything that a sorcerer in DL is, you are correct. But being a WoHS also goes against everything that a sorcerer in DL is.
On your second response, it is not that the sorcerer prepares wild sorcery, it is that he has learned the more rigid and strict way to prepare magic as set down by the gods. In taking this feat he has effectively agreed to abide by the rules thereby preparing all his spells before hand in the ways of a WoHS. This would be a complete change in the way that the sorcerer sees magic, as it should be if he decides to become a WoHS.
As far as arcane preparation representing where one's magic comes from I disagree. If we were using saga rules for sorcerers then I would agree with you. The way I see arcane preparation is that is evens the playing field for sorcerers vs. wizards as far as metamagic feats go. Anytime a spontaneous caster applies a metamagic feat to a spell (even one so small as spell thematics, which does not raise the spell slot, and basically does nothing, just makes the spell look cool) it makes that spell into a full-round action. I see sorcerers as being able to cast spells with 2 or even 3 metamagic feats applied and still being able to get the spell off in less than a second, because they could do this in saga rules. Granted it was harder and cost more, but because the spell was free-form it was possible.
For instance the quicken spell feat that everyone complained about not being used thanks to the haste spell, well slap this feat onto a spell by a spontaneous caster. The feat makes it a free action spell, but the fact that it is a metamagic feat makes the spell into a full-round action, whereby the caster has gained nothing with this feat where he should have gained a second action.
As far as the WoHS seeing sorcerers as renegades then yes in previous ages, sorcerers would be renegades. However as the gods themselves must convince mortals they are here to stay then so must the gods of magic. It would be kind of hard to convince someone who uses magic, to worship a god of magic whose followers destroy the very thing you, and probably alot of your friends, are.
Now the way I plan to play the coming ages is this. The WoHS are reconstituted but under a different name as this organization includes all arcane magic users not just wizards. Who knows, the Guild of Magical Artists, the Organization of Magical Practitioners of Ansalon, Magical Misfits of Krynn, who knows. All users of arcane magic are welcomed to join (not necesarily required to take the Prc class). Technically anyone who is not a member, is a renegade. There are sacademies for both schools of thought, prepared & unprepared. All members work side-by-side to find (Bards), observe (Wizards), and eliminate or convince to join (sorcerers) the organization, all rengades. All rengades will be handled just as in the past ages, white robes would watch & observe, Reds would probably destroy, and black would try to intimidate and use, or just plain out eliminate. Any and all perceived threats to magic will be dealt with accordingly. The test will still be given, but it will primarly focus on a person's ambition and goals in life, as well as their level of knowledge in their field of magic. Remember, sorcerers were given a test in the 5th age just as wizards were given a test in previous ages. Members are no longer restricted from multiclassing, as the world now has even more enemies to magical practitioners. Including a new and previously unknown creature know as a psion. This newfound co-operation between the different schools of thought have greatly increased the knowledge of magic (spells, feats) and has helped the organization find long-lost magical artifacts as well as to remove said items from irresponsible hands. It has also put the thorn knights on their guard as their old enemies (WoHS) are no longer stuck in a rutt, and have now become creative thinkers in the use of magic and combat tactics. The orders work more closely with the Knights of Solamnia, the Legion of Steel, as well as the Ergothian Shield (Knights of Ergoth) than in previous ages to help remove many of the evil elements from the continent of Ansalon.
In my world this organization does not exist on Taladas, only Ansalon. Taladas has had sorcerers & psionics, since the Scions were "put to the raft."
I am not sure if I will make a Prc class for the Ergothian Shield. I may just use a Prc class from Sword & Fist or some other source.
A wizard doesn't even have to do it. Sure, they would be giving up certain benefits, but nothing says that every Wizard of High Sorcery has levels in the PrC.
If a sorcerer wanted to join the order, all he would have to do is take the test and follow the rules. No dramatic changes are really necessary.
Of course, this also brings up the question of bards with spells beyond level 2...the book says they use primal sorcery, are they renegades?
Just out of curiosity, could someone refer me to where Wiess said that sorcerers were renegades? The DLCS and the AoM books seem to imply that no decision has yet been made on the issue by the new Council. (Since finding a head of the White Robes is the most important issue they face right now.)
I still don't know what to do when a PC asks me how they should deal with a sorceror. Especially white robes. In the past, renegades were given the choice to join or die. How do you give a magic user a choice, if there is no way they can join?
Since there is no way sorcerors can take the prestige class, does that mean even White robed wizards would hunt them down and kill them? Or do you actually think they would just try to "prevent" them from using their spells?
The sorceror can always undergo the procedure described in the DLCS whereby they relearn how to cast spells as a wizard and they can trade in their levels sorceror levels to wizard levels. So assuming that the Conclave brands all sorcerors as renegades, then a white robe would try to convince the sorceror to undergo the change to wizard.
FR
That's crazy, IMO. You have to be a renegade to have a decent familiar and bonus metamagic feats?
Sure, I guess you could take one level in it and then switch back, but then you are forced to be one level behind the ball.
I might have to play with that some in my game, I dunno.
Anyways, as far as what a wizard character who meets a sorcerer should do, the answer is obviously (from this discussion) no one knows. He will have to go by his gut.
If sorcerers are declared renegades, then every Sorcerer, Bard, and Aurak draconian (all can have spells of 3rd level and higher), would be hunted. Not only does this create a rather silly situation, but with the disorganization of the WoHS, a preemptive strike by the hunted magic users would mean the ultimate end of High Sorcery. The Wizards are outnumbered, out-leveled (except a rare few), and do not have the security of the towers to fall back on. The one disadvantage of the sorcerers, bards, and auraks would be disorganization, and a common enemy makes that disadvantage easy to overcome.
A proclamation alientating all of those people would be literal suicide, and wizards are smarter than that.
If there is this much confusion, a player cannot be faulted with any way he handles the wizard/sorcerer situation. I say let the player do what he thinks is right, until something official is proclaimed.
What do Solinari, Lunitari, and Nuitari want? They are, after all the Gods of magic, the ones the Wizards of High Scorcery answer to.
The Gods that formed The Wizards of High Scorcery because Wild Magic (read Scorcerers) nearly destroyed the world in ages long past. They deemed Wild Magic too dangerous, and unstable to use, so they tamed magic. Now Wild Magic is loose in the world again...
It seems to me that the the inevitable confrontation between Wild Scorcery and High Scorcery can only end in bloodshed. Though the Wizards of High Scorcery are anything but stupid, right now they are disorganized, towerless, but not powerless. The best course of action currently would be to watch the Scorcerers that seem to have particular power, mark them and wait... they will have to be the first to go once High Scorcery is back on it's feet. After that... oh what a war it will be.
Maybe it is time to close this page?