Racial Hit Dice - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Racial Hit Dice

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
true_blue
Oct 08, 2003 18:12:16 I noticed in the DLCS that minotaurs don't have racial hit dice, like they do in Savage Species. I figured that was because they wanted them to be more of a "regular" race that people can play, just like elves, kender, etc.

I was wondering if anyone else ever thought about taking away racial Hit Dice from like draconians, to make them more of a playable race.

I'm playing around with the idea of making medium creatures not having racial hit dice, and they gain all their HD from class levels. This would make certain races, like draconians, more playable. They would still have an ECL, but it wouldnt be so big.

If someone played a Large or more creature I could see how racial Hit dice would be applied, but i'm still not satisfied on the ECL system.

Having a racial hit dice gives creatures HD, skills, feats, and BAB, but none of the special features of a class. To me this hinders a lot of races.

Just wanted to know people's thoughts on getting rid of some of the racial hit dice. Comments always welcome.
#2
cam_banks
Oct 08, 2003 19:32:23 Racial hit dice help to smooth out the fact that certain races have an assortment of powerful abilities. The level adjustment covers a lot of those, but some of them could be considered as "class features" of the racial hit dice. You can see this represented in Savage Species and the monster classes, too.

If you dropped the racial hit dice of baaz and kapaks, you'd also have to either re-evaluate the level adjustment or eliminate one or more of the draconian's abilities.

A clever mix of the "racial levels" from Arcana Unearthed and some tinkering with the racial abilities could allow you to present a baseline draconian which advances in a specific draconian's racial levels. In other words, come up with a generic draconian race, write up some 3-level baaz and kapak classes a la Arcana Unearthed, and you're set. Your characters can identify as whichever draconian species they like but won't actually be a full member of the draconian type until they acquire all of those racial levels.

Take a look at Dragonhelm's Dragonlance racial level write-ups at www.dl3e.com for more ideas.

Cheers,
Cam
#3
zombiegleemax
Oct 08, 2003 20:35:41 Actually, I've been working on some monster classes, ALA Savage Species, for the Draconians. Here they are:

Aurak Monster Class

Silvak Monster Class

Bozak Monster Class

Baaz and Kapak Monster Classes

Edit: Finished all the classes. here's the last two.
Enjoy! it took me a while to do these, especially the aurak and silvak ones.
#4
cam_banks
Oct 09, 2003 8:41:47
Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
Actually, I've been working on some monster classes, ALA Savage Species, for the Draconians. Here they are:

Some of those look as if they have non-standard progressions for attributes such as base attack bonus, etc. Is that largely because they're incorporating level adjustment?

Cheers,
Cam
#5
zombiegleemax
Oct 09, 2003 11:49:10 The nonstandard progressions are necessary in order to take into account the creature's level adjustment. At the end of the monster class progression, the PC should be just about the same thing you see for the monster when you open up the MM.

Giving them the normal advancement for the monster type, you would end up with a more powerful creature when you take into account level adjustment. (This most often creates levels in which the monster player gains no hit dice or saving throw adjustment.)
#6
zombiegleemax
Oct 09, 2003 12:28:17 Kraven's right. Also, you have to take into account Feats as well. Your BAB, saves, skills, and feats all increase based upon Hit Dice, not levels, when dealing with Monster levels. So you can have a level 10 aurak, for instance, and only have 6 hit dice, which translates to a BAB of +6, Base saves (All) of +5 (iirc), 6 levels of skill points, and 3 feats (1 starting, 1 at the 3rd hit dice, and 1 at the 6th). Lastly, for the most part, weapon proficiencies are thus:

All creatures are proficient in their natural weapons.
All humanoid-shaped creatures (even dragon types, like draconians) are proficient in simple weapons.
Creatures are proficient in the weapons given in their stat blocks (like greatswords for Silvaks).

That's it. For armors, they have proficiencies in the highest armor type given in their stat blocks.

That clear it for you, Cam?
#7
cam_banks
Oct 09, 2003 12:47:31
Originally posted by Magus_Extreme

That clear it for you, Cam?

Yep. I didn't have a copy of Savage Species nearby, or I would have saved the two of you the trouble of responding.

Cheers,
Cam
#8
zombiegleemax
Oct 09, 2003 13:26:28 :D Anytime, Cam. I'm just glad i could get these classes out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 true_blue Oct 08, 2003 18:12:16	I noticed in the DLCS that minotaurs don't have racial hit dice, like they do in Savage Species. I figured that was because they wanted them to be more of a "regular" race that people can play, just like elves, kender, etc. I was wondering if anyone else ever thought about taking away racial Hit Dice from like draconians, to make them more of a playable race. I'm playing around with the idea of making medium creatures not having racial hit dice, and they gain all their HD from class levels. This would make certain races, like draconians, more playable. They would still have an ECL, but it wouldnt be so big. If someone played a Large or more creature I could see how racial Hit dice would be applied, but i'm still not satisfied on the ECL system. Having a racial hit dice gives creatures HD, skills, feats, and BAB, but none of the special features of a class. To me this hinders a lot of races. Just wanted to know people's thoughts on getting rid of some of the racial hit dice. Comments always welcome.
#2 cam_banks Oct 08, 2003 19:32:23	Racial hit dice help to smooth out the fact that certain races have an assortment of powerful abilities. The level adjustment covers a lot of those, but some of them could be considered as "class features" of the racial hit dice. You can see this represented in Savage Species and the monster classes, too. If you dropped the racial hit dice of baaz and kapaks, you'd also have to either re-evaluate the level adjustment or eliminate one or more of the draconian's abilities. A clever mix of the "racial levels" from Arcana Unearthed and some tinkering with the racial abilities could allow you to present a baseline draconian which advances in a specific draconian's racial levels. In other words, come up with a generic draconian race, write up some 3-level baaz and kapak classes a la Arcana Unearthed, and you're set. Your characters can identify as whichever draconian species they like but won't actually be a full member of the draconian type until they acquire all of those racial levels. Take a look at Dragonhelm's Dragonlance racial level write-ups at www.dl3e.com for more ideas. Cheers, Cam
#3 zombiegleemax Oct 08, 2003 20:35:41	Actually, I've been working on some monster classes, ALA Savage Species, for the Draconians. Here they are: Aurak Monster Class Silvak Monster Class Bozak Monster Class Baaz and Kapak Monster Classes Edit: Finished all the classes. here's the last two. Enjoy! it took me a while to do these, especially the aurak and silvak ones.
#4 cam_banks Oct 09, 2003 8:41:47	Originally posted by Magus_Extreme Actually, I've been working on some monster classes, ALA Savage Species, for the Draconians. Here they are: Some of those look as if they have non-standard progressions for attributes such as base attack bonus, etc. Is that largely because they're incorporating level adjustment? Cheers, Cam
#5 zombiegleemax Oct 09, 2003 11:49:10	The nonstandard progressions are necessary in order to take into account the creature's level adjustment. At the end of the monster class progression, the PC should be just about the same thing you see for the monster when you open up the MM. Giving them the normal advancement for the monster type, you would end up with a more powerful creature when you take into account level adjustment. (This most often creates levels in which the monster player gains no hit dice or saving throw adjustment.)
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 09, 2003 12:28:17	Kraven's right. Also, you have to take into account Feats as well. Your BAB, saves, skills, and feats all increase based upon Hit Dice, not levels, when dealing with Monster levels. So you can have a level 10 aurak, for instance, and only have 6 hit dice, which translates to a BAB of +6, Base saves (All) of +5 (iirc), 6 levels of skill points, and 3 feats (1 starting, 1 at the 3rd hit dice, and 1 at the 6th). Lastly, for the most part, weapon proficiencies are thus: All creatures are proficient in their natural weapons. All humanoid-shaped creatures (even dragon types, like draconians) are proficient in simple weapons. Creatures are proficient in the weapons given in their stat blocks (like greatswords for Silvaks). That's it. For armors, they have proficiencies in the highest armor type given in their stat blocks. That clear it for you, Cam?
#7 cam_banks Oct 09, 2003 12:47:31	Originally posted by Magus_Extreme That clear it for you, Cam? Yep. I didn't have a copy of Savage Species nearby, or I would have saved the two of you the trouble of responding. Cheers, Cam
#8 zombiegleemax Oct 09, 2003 13:26:28	:D Anytime, Cam. I'm just glad i could get these classes out.