What is it that distinguishes the Ravenloft setting from all of the other settings for D&D? In your opinion, or your experience, what sets it apart from other games? How does its darkness differ from the darkness in other games?
I was thinking tonight that it appears to me that the writers of Ravenloft materials were striving to create a certain brand of darkness.
It also appears to me that Ravenloft's darkness is found in the details. These details relate very closely to those necessary for really good ghost stories. For example, Ravenloft seems to dwell on a physical darkness: night-time blackness, mists, dripping water, the creak of things on the stairs that are moving and yet unseen. It is a place where fields and woods may be found, but with something rotten squirming underneath the facade of beauty, of normalcy, of sanity. Ravenloft appears to be based on the places where terrible things once happened; you know, the places in which screams are soaked into the walls and old blood haunts the ground, forbidding any real growth or hopes for the future.
Likewise, Ravenloft seems to dwell on a spiritual darkness, if you will: mental anguish, fears of real and imagined terrors, and suspicions of all kinds. It seems that a claustrophobic air hangs, just waiting for the DM to use it.
The terror of monster creatures, I fear, may not be enough to truly grip my players. But I think that if I can get a grasp on the setting, I can find other things for my players to fear, like the people they pass on the streets, or each other, or their own fears. I'm just wondering if I'm on the right track; with the amount of reading I've been doing for homework, I just can't be sure.
Just check my campaign posts here on the board for more examples.
peace,
MSD
Originally posted by Lord of the Ninth
read the first part of Bram Stoke's Dracula (where Harker is still in Transalvania), that's pretty much what you're going for in RL (you can get Dracula on projectgutenberg.org).
Not Dracula... No... Anything but that...
I have indeed read Dracula, twice, and I have found it confoundingly boring both times through. But I see why you recommended it, since much of Ravenloft seems to be taken from Dracula (and Dr. Mordenheim being a very close ripoff of Dr. Frankenstein). I'll keep the nuances of the setting in mind.
Think of the fairly recent movie the Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Parts of that movie come very close to "ravenloft-ness". Despite the fact the protagonist faces off against an evil ghost (and the witch that commands it) its shot in some beautiful locations with lavish costumes which contrast with the grey scenes and darkness. If you pump up the beautiful then the dark stands out all that much more when it arrives.
That said there are two critical (IMO) elements a good Ravenloft camapaign swirls around.
First the camapaign is about human evils (the seven deadly sins are a good place to start from when designing the personality of any significant villian). The monsters, when not human themselves, generally can pass as human. And, the most important part, your players need to feel "pity" or "sympathy" for them (the villians) on some level. Beholders and Mindflayers are naturally just "evil" and thus not good choices for gothic villians. They just get born that way (evil). There is almost always a reason why the RL villian goes bad, and it should tug at the hearts of the players.* To use the Sleepy Hollow movie as an example the stepmother was wronged by the VanTassel family and evicted from her home as a child to go live in the creepy forrest making room for new (better connected) tennants. All before the heros were even born, which takes me to...
The second pole is that the history counts in Ravenloft. Why things happen is complax beased on a dance begun generations back between the movers and shakers. Without a rich backstorry of people wronging each other the game degenerates into "the hereos go hunting the next night terror". Van Richten, the Elminster of RL, didn't beat back the tide of darkness because he could cast 10th level spells or was the chosen of a goddess...he succeeded because he meticulously researched the past (and subsequently weaknesses) of his enemies. To establish a good RL campaign you need an elaborate storry where the lies are slowly pulled away a layer at a time by the PCs to get to a pearl of truth at the center. The PCs can't storm the bad guys lair with their swords and spells...because they don't really get to know who the bad guy is till at the very end. Again in Sleepy Hollow it looks for awhile like Christina Ricci's character is behind everything. PCs who take things at face value, shoot first and ask questions later inevitably screw things up terribly.
Bottom line: the feel of "classic" Ravenloft is (1) foulness sometimes lurks in beautiful things and (2) untangling who might be foul is invariably burried in the secrets hidden in the past of the prominent NPCs.
-Eric Gorman
* The one exception to this is the human antagonist who is born a monster at heart. Like Dominic D'Honaire. There the agonizing question is "why did he/she turn out that way?"...or perhaps more sinisterly "why did we turn out okay and not like him"...or sliding into paranoia "who else is like that and how would I recognise them...
Actually the best way to get the feel of the setting is to read the first section of the RLCS. They also mention several books in that section that are considered Gothic Horror.
As for history... I confess that I like the sound of what you said. I am a history buff of sorts and I can see where it can come in handy in gaming. I didn't think that it would have such a hand in RL but in a way, it does - or it can. I will be sure to keep it in mind.
Thank you for your thoughts. =)
Lord of the Ninth - You know, the last teacher I had to read Dracula for loved the book, and I didn't have the heart to tell her how much I disliked it. It was enough that she liked it (and that she gave me an A).
In truth, I much preferred Frankenstein to Dracula. I had seen Frankenstein on television as a blocky, green, slow-moving monster who could do nothing more than groan, and all of the Halloween masks followed suit. How shocked was I to discover that the Frankenstein of Shelley could speak more eloquently than most learned folk, that he had a depth of feeling that brought forth instant sympathy, because so much of his feelings were tied up with sadness. The complexity of Shelley's doctor and his creation are given no justice in modern portrayals and their intricacy easily surpasses Dracula's in my eyes.
I've read a decent amount of gothic horror. I just wanted to know what folks here thought and felt, because such opinions have a certain immediacy that gothic horror stories lack.
I have not turned to Dracula, but I have turned to what I feel is the best horror novel I've ever read - It by Stephen King. There are so many great devices used in that book to maximum effect, and to wit I noted a few just from memory:
* Nothing is quite as scary as a coincidence, because when one is already afraid, nothing feels like a coincidence.
* A player character party can be drawn quickly and closely together by fear, especially when they're in dread of the same things. They can also be held together by suffering, which then develops into friendship (if there was none present before).
* The simplest things can elicit powerful associations and reactions (fear being only one of them); the things of every day are what scare us the worst when things go wrong. Sounds, smells, landmarks, you name it.
* Regardless of how terrible a place is, there can be folks living in blissful ignorance of what stalks by night. That ignorance can compound problems manyfold, because "normal folks" aren't going to want to believe you, even if, deep down, they know something's wrong. They might turn a deaf ear, or throw you in jail when they do notice you. In a place consumed by evil, the folks who don't know about it can easily abet it.
* Sometimes the worst kind of monster is the one that can appear to be human (and, in some instances, give the appearance of sanity). Familiarity is powerful.
* A place does not have to be ugly to be frightening. Not all evil folks decide to decorate with skulls, after all, and sometimes the worst place is the one with beauty that works as a terrible mask for all the rottenness underneath.
* It is good for everyone to know everyone else in some fashion (by face, name, reputation, stories, etc.). That way if something happens (someone vanishes, turns up dead, etc.), the player characters feel, at least in some small part of themselves, a connection. Ahhh, the ties that bind. And in Ravenloft, which appears to have quite a few smaller settlements, this everyone-knows-everyone syndrome is entirely plausible. (Hell, I live in a place with roughly 200,000 people, in the right huge Los Angeles County, and it can still feel like I'm less than six degrees from anyone in the city limits!)
* It is good to remember the feel of a place, and to describe that presence as best as possible. Some places may seem dangerous but feel safe, while others might look ordinary but feel utterly wrong.
Funny, but it seems like I learned these things first from childhood, but never mind that.
I have had some ideas of how to start things out; I've envisioned a setting and some starting events. It will be fun to work on it. I am beginning to feel that I am on the right track.
The Others
The Ring
Dune (no joke the betrayal plotlines and ploitical manuvering in either movie or the book are excellent to show how the DL's act)
The Blair Witch Project
Blair Witch 2
Candyman ( just think you had no clue through the movie if there was a Candyman til the end)
Most Tim Burton works
there are others but this is just the ones off the top of my head...
The Fog - Great archetypal storyline, it demostrates how curses in RL come back to haunt the descendents of the curse-ees.
John Carpenter's The Thing - The gore isn't very Ravenloft-ish, but read between the splattermarks and see how paranoia and madness can sweep through isolated groups beset by "imposter" monsters.
Nightmare On Elm Street series - The scares are great, but the *real* Ravenloft element is how the adults in the background make things worse, willfully denying the truth. Ravenloft's NPCs tend to be skeptics, and playing up that state of denial can leave the PCs standing alone against evil ... or even running from the law, if the true villains set PCs up to take the blame for their crimes. (No magic to Detect Evil or otherwise identify the true culprits in RL, remember...? ;-D)
And Burton is a matter of course. =)
Rotipher - The first Nightmare on Elm Street still manages to spellbind me.
Oh, and I love your signature; it always makes me laugh.
Originally posted by KismetRose
Plunderer - Funny, but I greatly admire The Others and own it. I think The Ring is one of the best horror movies to be released in the last decade. I found things to admire about Blair Witch, too.
And Burton is a matter of course. =)
I always thought the ending to the others would make for a great climax to a campaign. Those who have seen this gem know what I refer too.
The ring was one of three movies that truly scared me. And the feel of that movie haunts me to this day. the other two movies that did the same were The Exorcist and.....
The Blair Witch Project...the sense of dread and not really knowing if there even was a witch or not did horrible things to the ol' mind...On top of that I live in a part of Missouri that greatly resembles the woods in the movie...
Another great thong to enhance the feel of the game is location I am planning to hold my Halloween RL game in an old hayloft on my wifes grandmothers place, where we have our horses. The place is old and only lit with one lightbulb plus I downloaded some soundeffects off of the Kargetines website and some soundbites from various horror movies that I will burn to cd an use in game. Needless to say this game will rock.
You don't need to go to such extremes but other things I have seen are dimly lit rooms (christmas and halloween lights), fog machines and various dark soundtracks add to the feel.
BTW two other movies would be:
Bram Stokers Dracula (screams ravenloft)
and
Donnie Darko (just wierd)
Originally posted by Plunderer_of_the_planes
I always thought the ending to the others would make for a great climax to a campaign. Those who have seen this gem know what I refer too.
The ring was one of three movies that truly scared me. And the feel of that movie haunts me to this day. the other two movies that did the same were The Exorcist and.....
The Blair Witch Project...the sense of dread and not really knowing if there even was a witch or not did horrible things to the ol' mind...On top of that I live in a part of Missouri that greatly resembles the woods in the movie...
Another great thong to enhance the feel of the game is location I am planning to hold my Halloween RL game in an old hayloft on my wifes grandmothers place, where we have our horses. The place is old and only lit with one lightbulb plus I downloaded some soundeffects off of the Kargetines website and some soundbites from various horror movies that I will burn to cd an use in game. Needless to say this game will rock.
You don't need to go to such extremes but other things I have seen are dimly lit rooms (christmas and halloween lights), fog machines and various dark soundtracks add to the feel.
BTW two other movies would be:
Bram Stokers Dracula (screams ravenloft)
and
Donnie Darko (just wierd)
THE OTHERS yes !
Boy was the ending a twist 
. That ending was a classic. 
Thumbs up... Siskel & Ebert style!~The Dark 1~
Better yet, read the original novel, The Haunting of Hill House by Shirley Jackson.
[And sheesh... should I have registered? I'm already trying to keep track of some half-a-dozen web boards as it is...]