Soverign Press's official stance is simply that they won't say anything one way or another, preferring to leave it to the judgement of the DM.
I asked Jamie Chambers of Sovereign Press about psionics since 3e psionics are so different, and he said that Sovereign Press will not address psionics either way in their products, leaving the decision up to the DM.
Note: The mental powers you are referring to is the power of Mentalism, part of the divine magic of Mysticism. That's not psionics.
My personal opinion is to allow the psion. I like giving players the freedom to play the type of character they want.
If you do allow the psion, be careful on how you present him in-game. How would the Wizards of High Sorcery view the psion? How would divine magic users view the psion? What about the other organizations, such as the Knights of Solamnia?
Also ask yourself how psionics fit into the grand scheme of things. Is it a power granted by the gods? Did the Greygem awaken the inner potential of a person?
There's a lot to think about. However, the inclusion of a psion (especially if the other players don't know what he is) can add a lot to one's game.
Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
grrr for dragonhelm (also known as he-who-doesn't-answer-emails... :fight!: ) jumping in right as I post.
*uses power of Mentalism*
*waves hand in air*
This is not the Solamnic Knight you are looking for. Move along...
Sorry, I've been a bit busy of late. Yes, I did receive the e-mail and the private message. Sorry for not getting back to you. Look for an e-mail back tonight.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
*uses power of Mentalism*
*waves hand in air*
This is not the Solamnic Knight you are looking for. Move along...
Sorry, I've been a bit busy of late. Yes, I did receive the e-mail and the private message. Sorry for not getting back to you. Look for an e-mail back tonight.
naw, it's cool man. you know i gotta give you a lil grief. I understand busy-ness.If you do allow the psion, be careful on how you present him in-game. How would the Wizards of High Sorcery view the psion? How would divine magic users view the psion? What about the other organizations, such as the Knights of Solamnia?
this is a very good outlook though keep it in mind
I have to agree with Serena though; Psionics don’t come from being better than anyone around them. That’s like saying Clerics are the only people that will reach their perspective heaven because they share a closer link with the gods. It’s just not true.
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
I for one am going to exclude psionics entirely.....as it always had been done in the past. But that's only one reason I'm going to do that.
I've always had a problem with the exclusion of psionics on Krynn. The 2nd edition sources stating that psionics do not exist never gave any reason for their exclusion. So excluding it because of those sources is a waste, I feel. But then again, if there is a good reason, some tale, some flavour behind its exclusion, then thats cool. I much prefer what has been done with the DLCS, that is, leaving it up to the DM.
Another reason would be because I just can't seem to see them meshing well with the already established world that had not been created with psionics in mind. Reason three.....I just can't stand psionics....I know alot of people like them, but in my mind I just don't see themin medieval fantasy....they seem way too sci-fi to me.
As for not meshing with DL, I disagree. The only difference between a psion and a mystic using the sphere of mentalism or meditation is the execution of their power, not the result. I don't see it as much of a leap to take from mystics (or monks for that matter) to psions. Both seek to better themselves by drawing from power within. So, you may ask, why bother with both. Different feel, different execution of power, more variety for the player.
If you want medieval flavour, try reading the Lone Wolf series. The Kai Lords were basically an order ranger/monk types with psionic ability (depending on how you advanced your character).
Kinda like throwing the Force into LoTR...laughable. Then I could go on to say that I have given psionics in DL the benefit of the doubt and allowed a psionic character. It was a multi classed monk/psychic warrior. He manifested his power on the wicker dragon during that whole incident, helping it to look more alive to scare the draconians. While it was a fun undertaking....the psi character just didnt mesh well.....and the player and I designed a heroic death for the character. It just didnt work in my game.
Lastly, I've always considered Star Wars more of a fantasy epic than sci-fi. Replace xwings with astral ships and the death star with some epic magical artifact, and hey presto. So something like the force (telekinesis, hmm, how did Saruman take Gandalf's staff in the movie), or even the telepathy Galadriel uses during LOTR does not seem so out of place.
Practically-speaking, at least before psionics devolved into just another kind of spell-like ability in 3E, they created too many issues to fit comfortably within the setting.
Since Krynn has (in recent history) experienced two periods of reduced magic (the first being the loss of clerical powers after the Cataclysm, the second being the early Age of Mortals), it would seem irrational to suggest that psionics existed before. Surely *somebody* would have stumbled across long before now.
It is reasonable to suppose that Chaos's rampage is what helped spark the emergence of Sorcery and Mysticism. Wild Sorcery has always been associated with chaotic forces. And even Mysticism draws on unstructured flows of divine energy. This also explains why Mysticism was not discovered during the three centuries between the Cataclysm and the War of the Lance.
But psionics is not traditionally associated with chaos. Of course, the 3E psionics system so closely resembles the spell-casting system that the difference between a Sorceror, Mystic and a Psion is functionally neglible, so it probably could work.
From more of a "canon" point of view, psionics doesn't fit DL so well, unless you used the psionics rules for portions of mysticism. There's already four types of magic, so a fifth power would be a bit much.
However, I am a fan of psionics, and I do think they could be included if presented in a certain way.
My current theory is that psionics came about at the same time as sorcery and mysticism. The power of Chaos amplified those two magics.
In the case of psionics, I feel that the power of Chaos changed a few individuals in subtle ways. The change was caused by the same power that created various races in the past (i.e. kender, minotaurs), although the change was much more subtle.
During the early Age of Mortals, those who had these powers were afraid of being discovered by the dragon overlords or the Knights of Takhisis, so they kept their powers hidden. As such, they never fully organized, or began any formal training.
And it goes on from there. This is, IMO, a great way to introduce psionics, keep the feel of psionics, and maintain world flavor without overpowering anything.
Anyway, that's just one thought. I'd like to hear others.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
In the case of psionics, I feel that the power of Chaos changed a few individuals in subtle ways. The change was caused by the same power that created various races in the past (i.e. kender, minotaurs), although the change was much more subtle.
Anyway, that's just one thought. I'd like to hear others.
That's along the same lines as I see it. The greygem was responsible for accelerating an evolutionary process amongst certain individuals. This process, eventually, would allow ancestors of these individuals to gain access to higher portions of their their mind, those not used by the average mortal. This in turn brought about an understanding of the ontological, the relationship of mind, body and soul, the nature of being. From this understanding comes the realisation of the power of this relationship, and the ability to make manifest their will.
Now, this differs from mysticism. Mysticism has always existed, and in this explanation, is the divine spark gifted to all as a result of being the creation of the divine. While this power requires a great faith and is powered by heart and soul, it is still only the chanelling of a power that already existed, that in a sense, does not really belong to the individual.
So, the two have different power sources. Mysticism is a gift from the gods (although it still must be understood and harnessed correctly), while psionics is a substitue for the divine spark, that comes about through a greater understanding of the metaphysical. It is truly the power of the individual, and given time will rival the power of the gods themselves.
Originally posted by Kalthasian Talanward
I've always had a problem with the exclusion of psionics on Krynn. The 2nd edition sources stating that psionics do not exist never gave any reason for their exclusion. So excluding it because of those sources is a waste, I feel. But then again, if there is a good reason, some tale, some flavour behind its exclusion, then thats cool. I much prefer what has been done with the DLCS, that is, leaving it up to the DM.
As for not meshing with DL, I disagree. The only difference between a psion and a mystic using the sphere of mentalism or meditation is the execution of their power, not the result. I don't see it as much of a leap to take from mystics (or monks for that matter) to psions. Both seek to better themselves by drawing from power within. So, you may ask, why bother with both. Different feel, different execution of power, more variety for the player.
Lastly, I've always considered Star Wars more of a fantasy epic than sci-fi. Replace xwings with astral ships and the death star with some epic magical artifact, and hey presto. So something like the force (telekinesis, hmm, how did Saruman take Gandalf's staff in the movie), or even the telepathy Galadriel uses during LOTR does not seem so out of place.
Okay...I simply stated my personal reasons for not using psionics in MY game......I dont care what other people use in theirs. And yes...there was 2E source material that explained why psionics dont function on Krynn....due to a dampening field around the planet....It may be a cheap excuse....but it is an excuse....or then again...it could be simply said that psionics just dont exist(which I like better) which is just the same as saying orcs dont exist on Krynn...which is accepted very easily. And lastly....all that about replacing the death star with an epic magical artifact and astral ships and such.....thats why I like DL compared to other fantasy worlds.....they dont do too much like that.....it doesnt get too ridiculous.....its more believable than most D&D worlds.
Originally posted by Serena DarkMyst
Okay...I simply stated my personal reasons for not using psionics in MY game......I dont care what other people use in theirs.
Understood. My comments, in response to your comments were simply to convey MY feelings on the subject.
And yes...there was 2E source material that explained why psionics dont function on Krynn....due to a dampening field around the planet....
Was this in Krynnspace? I'm pretty sure I own the rest of the material but I don't have that book.
And lastly....all that about replacing the death star with an epic magical artifact and astral ships and such.....thats why I like DL compared to other fantasy worlds.....they dont do too much like that.....it doesnt get too ridiculous.....its more believable than most D&D worlds.
My point in regards to that was that the story behind star wars is the classic fantasy epic. You know, good struggling against the vast forces of evil, the redemption of misguided souls and so forth. You could place the story in any setting and it lessons and morals would resonate the same. Believability in a fantasy world is such a subjective thing, given that it IS fantasy.
I have to say I'm actually rather surprised (and pleased!) to see so much support for psionics in Krynn.
For those that are interested in psionics in Krynn, I have a question. Would you be interested in an unofficial online guide for psionics in Krynn? If so, then what would you like to see in it?
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
For those that are interested in psionics in Krynn, I have a question. Would you be interested in an unofficial online guide for psionics in Krynn? If so, then what would you like to see in it?
Sounds Cool. I have a couple of ideas, although finding the time to get them onto paper (or in the computer) is challenging. I have an organisation, the Order of the Tempered Soul, which is home to the Mind Wardens (also known as the Soul Sentinels), a group concerned with protecting the free will of Krynn's inhabitants. The Mind Warden is a 10 level prestige class and is almost finished, just have to add a bit more history and a final balancing of their powers (maybe I could bounce a few ideas off people?). Also, the little snippet I posted above is part of a larger piece containing a fair bit of information on the nature of psionics on krynn, taking into account the reasons for offworlders losing their abilities and the mystery that is the Yaggol. This needs a bit more work, but once it takes on a coherant form, I'd be happy to post it for those who are interested.
I'd also be interested in any and all of the ideas others have.
Originally posted by Kalthasian Talanward
Sounds Cool. I have a couple of ideas, although finding the time to get them onto paper (or in the computer) is challenging.
Blimey.
I had a few notes, but it sounds like you have such a supplement already written (at least in your head).
I would encourage you to take the time, write it down, and send it in to the Nexus. We'd be happy to post it.
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
I would encourage you to take the time, write it down, and send it in to the Nexus. We'd be happy to post it.
I did just that with the previous incarnation of my idea, but I never got any feedback, but as they say, if at first you don't succeed.......
oh well i get the basic idea anyway
that crap about being better . . . that was aimed at being better than normal human/(insert optional race here) limitations
anyway while we are on the subject of psions check this out - 3rd paragraph http://www.nuklearpower.com/redmage30.php
Psionic opponents also become important, or else the psion will go unchallenged (relatively) and dominate the campaign (in the sense that everyone and his brother will be wanting to know about this strange power.)
I would most likely restrict the class to humans. (The other races have their own quirks, and psionics is more of an inborn ability than a "class" per se.)
Although a campaign centered around the "first psion" would be pretty cool. Maybe he could be an alien (or child of an alien). With a new location in space, the possibilities for new monsters and abilities in the Age of Mortals are endless. Or he could be a mutant, transformed by the world-bending power of the new dragons.
There's a lot to think about there.
---
I just gotta say, (even though its probably not the place or time) I never liked the psychic warrior. Blending two classes makes little sense with 3rd edition's increased ability to multiclass, and, played right, a fighter/psion could spank a psychic warrior at most any level. (His base attack can be better, he can have more PSPs, and his power progression will only be slightly behind, if at all.)
Do the math.
that was a well written post good job
The big issue would revolve around defining them as "Sorcery" or "Mysticism", since creating a fifth type of magic would start to get a little absurd within the setting.
Perhaps Psychokinesis, Psychoportation and Metacreativity would be considered "Sorcery" (dealing with non-living things).
Clairsentience, Psychometabolism and Telepathy would by "Mysticism" (dealing with life).
Not that those distinctions have stuck anyway, even though they appear several times in the new rule books.
I'd be interested if someone who is not as lazy as me went ahead and did that...(wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more.)
But I don't know if the result would significantly weaken the class.
...(wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more.)
but it is nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more
i dont know about ruining the class though, you will have to try it out and see
Originally posted by Craven Moistmuffins
Yeah, they did kinda throw out those distinctions. I've been thinking of limiting sorcerers to elemental/nonliving magics, and mystics to "living" magics myself. This would kind of preserve the feel of the magic styles, but it means I have to rework the spellcharts.
This is a bit difficult in D&D, although not wholly impossible. For example, a pyromancer's fireball would only have to affect non-living materials.
Perhaps you could give a bonus to sorcerers if they use their magic on non-living things, and a bonus to mystics if they use their magic on living things (create a couple of feats, or a prestige class, etc.). This way, you don't limit the players, but you keep a bit of that SAGA feel.
Creating a spell list where all the PHB spells would be divided into the various realms of sorcery/spheres of mysticism would be time-consuming as well.
If anyone would like to continue discussing incorporating the SAGA feel with D&D mechanics, I would ask that a new thread be started.
maybe we should end it