Best way I know how is to talk about Athasian gods.
So I am re-reading Troy Denning's Prism Pentad (you know Denning; he along with Tim Brown created Dark Sun). Around 1/3 of the way into Verdant Passage, we have our main characters Agis and Sadira running from some Tyrian templars in UnderTyr. Along with Sadira's teacher, the preserver Ktendo, they find an area of UnderTyr called the Crimson Shrine. When Agis and Sadira ask Ktendo what the place is, he informs them that it is a temple to a long forgotten god (a feathered serpent god) and is guarded by Crimson Knights (wraiths). Not only that, Ktendo also informs them that the Knights guard the shrine "due to the extreme faith in their god".
Is there anything else to this? Who knows....
Comments?
Quote from DSMC II Wraith entry. The Crimson Shrine is also mentioned there. The text takes no stand as towards the actual existance of gods, only faith in them. It is however, the wraith's faith in a *cause* that sustains it - not a *god*. There are examples of other wraiths whose cause is not a god.
Jon, very true, I agree. However Ktendo in the novel seems very knowledgable of the wraiths. He says they worshipped a god. He also says that this god was far more powerful than the Sorcerer Kings.
Perhaps he is not making reference to a trye god, perhaps this Feathered Serpent god was a powerful Nature Master.
Thoughts?
I have read all the "no gods on Athas" threads on the old list (the archive is great for that stuff).
Still, although I can't come up with more evidence than what I have already presented, I still think its possible that there were gods on Athas. I have yet to see this mysterious "evidence" of no-gods.
The non-presense of something does not conclude that it does not exist.
I'm more of a "Cosmic Abondenment" theorist myself. I like to think there might have been gods in the past but they forsook Athas for some reason.
Perhaps he is not making reference to a trye god, perhaps this Feathered Serpent god was a powerful Nature Master. Thoughts?
The Quatl, or feathered serpent, holds a key role in Draji mythology.
I have yet to see this mysterious "evidence" of no-gods.
Sorry, but I take the opposite stance. Lack of evidence disproves, it never proves. The Saragar supplement though is what I like to think of when wondering wether or not gods existed. Since that city harkens back to the Green Age (the age when such deities would have existed) and yet shows no signs at all of any kind of divine worship, then either A: no gods existed durign that time, or B: Saragar has erased all signs of former deitific worship. Since, under scientific thinking, you need actual evidence to prove something exists, and on Athas such evidence is not found, the logical conclusion then is that gods don't exist.
I've toyed around with the opposite line of thinking several times attempting to incorporate the adandoning diety line of thinking, but I've never heard nor come up with any decent way to incorporate it into the established history, or a decent way to deal with the actual ramifications. So its not just stuborn refusal. I'm always open to suggestions that can change my thinking so if you have a method of introducing dieties, by all means, share it. Even if it gets ripped apart, you never know.
I was wondering where most of the info on the Elemental War was? I think the idea of Athasian Elements fighting the upstart para-elements intriguing. Also Prime Elements and their opposites at least give us some kind of deity type roles (for clerics and holy warriors).
Originally posted by GFORCE99
Kind of off topic, but I started this
I was wondering where most of the info on the Elemental War was? I think the idea of Athasian Elements fighting the upstart para-elements intriguing. Also Prime Elements and their opposites at least give us some kind of deity type roles (for clerics and holy warriors).
Earth, Air, Fire and Water has a minimum amount of info about it. Better to grab Manual of Planes and use your imagination, working out such beings. And of course you can publish it, so we can use it as well (hint, hint...)
Faith in non-existent deities is probably the most likely. If that faith is strong enough it can produce spells and can certainly give rise to temples or attendat undead.
Let's not forget the Spirits of the Land. These could easily have been mistaken for gods in the past (my ssurran conversion takes this angle, with ssurran druids claiming they worship ancestral tribal gods that are really Spirits of the Land).
And then there is that ever-relevant bit in Terrors of the Dead Lands that mentions the kreen Great One and the rhulisti avangion (if that's what it is). These two are presented as having followers/worshippers who derive power from their worship. Could legendary heroic figures like these not have been seen as gods? Maybe the lion-headed figure worshipped across the Tablelands was a primordial epic-level beasthead giant (assuming you ignore that silliness from Prism Pentad about beastheads).
There is another entry in TotDL (maybe same one as above) that mentions people following an entity that grants them spells. It leads them to the City of Strong Walls, iirc. Can't remember the name but it comes across as some kind of evolved spirit or godling. Could this be a named Spirit of the Land that is worshipped as a god?
And what about fiends? We know that they can reach Athas with difficulty - maybe in the Green Age a fiend or two was worshipped as a god?
Hmmmmm....
The Oba - this case is the most simple, the templars of the oba (able to cast divine spells) try to spread their faith around athas.
Dregoth - the dragon-king who desire to become god. the official line suppose redicolus act as creating the dray (as in dragonlance, yuk) and trying to build an army. i suggest more sophisticated act - dregoth should send templars as a mission, but the templars wouldn't cast spells by calling for Dregoth, but calling another name - a name unknown to athas and the SM. this way, the SM would be mazed, and wouldn't understand what stand before them - is the ancient god of athas rise up at last (hey, the latest events could support that).
Kalid-ma - this could be a ravenloft-dark sun cross-over (use your imagination...)
Tithian - bounds to the curlean storm, tithian may communicate with the new curleanian mages - at last he can grant spells to his templars...
There was a line in one of the old 2e supplements that said very clearly that Athas has never had gods. The ancient temples and faiths that existed are probably down to a few causes.
This would be from the Revised edition that most DSers hate and side step on a regular basis right?
I knew about this one, I have read it, I was waiting for someone to reference it.
Besides this reference, is there any other evidence of no gods? I mean besides "no evidence concludes no gods" theory.
On another note, I really like the ideas coming out about the Spirit of the Lands and Terror of the Dead Lands material. Really good stuff. I especially like the New Age gods of Dregoth and Tithian.
Isn't it funny when we are not given gods by the deities of TSR/WOTC we event our own? Good stuff!!!
This would be from the Revised edition that most DSers hate and side step on a regular basis right? I knew about this one, I have read it, I was waiting for someone to reference it.
Besides this reference, is there any other evidence of no gods? I mean besides "no evidence concludes no gods" theory.
More people have problems with the recent history elements of the Prism Pentad implemented in the Revised Boxed Set than with the content that seperates the Revised Boxed Set from the Prism Pentad. Seeing this particular piece of information (There are no gods...) does not stem from the Prism Pentad heavily influenced parts of the Revised Boxed Set, I would say it is fairly legitimate, and it definitely is ground for rejecting the H0 hypothesis of "Athasian Gods exist or have existed". You only need one contradictory element to ascertain something is not 100% applicable - and a god can not be claimed to exist unless 100% of our evidence supports that fact. We have a contradictory element from a canon source. Thus you cannot scientifically claim that athasian gods exist or have existed.
Thus you cannot scientifically claim that athasian gods exist or have existed.
Of course, to each his own. If you feel the need for deities in your own personal Athasian campaign, by all means, include them. Post up how in fact you introudeced such an element into your game (of course, you must expect at list a little flame or two about anti-cannon material, but such is the way of the world we live in).
More people have problems with the recent history elements of the Prism Pentad implemented in the Revised Boxed Set than with the content that seperates the Revised Boxed Set from the Prism Pentad
i don't understand what you mean, can you explain it in another words (what are your problems with the revised boxed set)?
I agree with Jon in that many of the complaints stem from one of two sources: either the person hated the fact the some of the SKs and Borys were killed off, or hated the fact that change itself was introduced rather than persistent stagnation. At least, that's how it seems from my end of things.
In any case, why do I bring up Athasian gods? I don't know, I guess its because it is a glaring difference between DS &the rest of the RPGs out there. Yet I see many DSers still feel the need to have "higher powers" such as the Prime Elements and the nemesis the Para-Elements. Even the SKs fill this role.
Also, I feel that there are sources of Athasian gods, albeit random that too quickly dismiss.
Ok, well I started this mess. I think thats all for now. I post more when I find some other glaring examples during my re-read of Prism Pentad.
opinion" versus "published fact", where both are contradictory.
Point me to an official source that states "Real gods exist or have existed on Athas" - then we have a contradiction in "published facts".
Sure the Revised Edition says otherwise to the Pentad, but aren't they both published? At least the Pentad is written by Denning. That means something (I think).
Anyways, this is what I meant by opinion" versus "published fact", where both are contradictory.. My opinion and yours is different on this matter. Denning and revised are both published and different. The beauty of Dark Sun.
Smile
You dismissed Ktendo's comment as misplaced faith. Thats opinion.
I rank an objective standpoint (i.e. the Revised Boxed Set) higher than a subjective viewpoint from an NPC whose motives we do not know, nor if his information is correct.
Originally posted by GFORCE99
Not that I want to have this thread to become agonizing, but the Prism Pentad, which started this post to begin with, has a character stating there was gods. You dismissed Ktendo's comment as misplaced faith.
Stated in character in the prism pentad.
There's a huge difference between what characters say in a book, and what's stated by the narrator.
If the narrator states something, than we hav eno choice but to accept it as a statement of fact.
If, however, the narrator states that a character says something, than the statement of fact is that the character made a statement. That statement, however, is from the perspective of the character, and is therefore biased by what the character knows or thinks he knows.
Ktendo was not present during the Green age. He cannot make authoritiarian statments of fact about that time period, like the Sorcerer Kings might. He can convey what he belives that he knows but he is at best a secondhand source of information.
Thank you for sharing your opinions.
What I'd rather see than the debate, is methods of introducing such an element that fits with the setting itself from those who feel that dieties are a 'must have' for their campaign. As I said, I couldn't find any logical way to introduce that element, but I'm sure its not impossible.
We all know that the Gray seperates the astral from the prime making divine channeling nearly if not dead impossible. The question his; was it always the case?? But then if we are using cosmopologies what about the plane of dreams (dreamers of athats only -remember the Gray??-). It surely exist since dreamtravel is possible to psions ( I know what your thinking; DreamPrists?? God-like beeing in the dream sphere?? Even the Plane of Dream in a DS setting is out of place right?) Maybe but it could exist!
Well, its just a thought on the spot realy
care to coment?
Why should we?
IMHO: part of Athas' uniqueness comes from the 'no gods' setup. Of course everybody plays as he/she wishes. But if somebody absolutely can't be without gods, and it is so important, he/she can play in a wide amount of other worlds.
First off, there is evidence (depending on who you trust) that there WAS gods.
Second, even though many ppl don't want gods in Athas, they fill in the empty space with Elemental beings that are essentially the New gods.
I will agree that regardless if there were or werent gods in the past, there are no gods now on Athas.
That's the bit I was going on about (sorry for dragging up an old thread) - it's about the only place I can recall that a revered entity is explicitly named.
Also, take a look at the flibook illustration of the work on Kalak's Ziggurat in "Freedom". You can make out murals of what look like divine figures locked in combat, commanding the weather, dispensing bounty to followers etc. I could make out three or four distinctly identifiable beings.
Originally posted by Kamelion
Also, take a look at the flibook illustration of the work on Kalak's Ziggurat in "Freedom". You can make out murals of what look like divine figures locked in combat, commanding the weather, dispensing bounty to followers etc. I could make out three or four distinctly identifiable beings.
They can be high-level elemental priests, templars, or psions. Historical figures and legends from the Green Age. A 15th level psion's abilities are really godlike for a 1st or 2nd level commoner, but even for a 3rd level psion. So they can be viewed with great awe by the population.
why can't we just agree to disagree???
You don't want gods...you want gods...its all good. Why are arguing over conjecture?
Peace out brother!
why can't we just agree to disagree???
Probably because you continue with pointing to source material and seeing gods where others don't. If you want to end the discussion at a stage of "agree to disagree", then don't come up with more vague arguments in favor of your view. People have a funny tendency to respond to such posts.
I think most of us can agree to the fact that there was once (and could be still) belief in gods on Athas, but from a canonical standpoint, it is most unlikely that these gods existed as divine entities per the D&D rules for gods.
It should be noted that the only "gods" in the net project that ever manifested in physical form were not real gods, but were worshipped as such. One was an elemental (cleric/psionicist), another a powerful beasthead-giant (the lion-headed warrior mentioned in City By The Silt Sea), and yet another was an outsider (a fiend) trapped on Athas.
Sadly, the Athasian Faiths and Mythology project was never completed, and it was lost eons ago. It could be possible it's lying around somewhere on an ancient unmarked floppy disk, but alas, I have been unable to find it despite numerous attempts. Hope this has been of interest.
Originally posted by GFORCE99
why can't we just agree to disagree???
You don't want gods...you want gods...its all good. Why are arguing over conjecture?
'Cause... umm...
Originally posted by GFORCE99
Ok, so I like creating turmoil on the Dark Sun list.
Best way I know how is to talk about Athasian gods.
...You asked for it.
Originally posted by GFORCE99
I am always amazed at the anti-god stance that so many DSers take.
[...] I still think its possible that there were gods on Athas. I have yet to see this mysterious "evidence" of no-gods.
Its not a matter of evidence but of rules (for a lack of a better word). Every book states that there are no gods on Athas. We also know that fiends will be an integral part of Athas from now own with Dregoth Ascending. If you accept that last design implementation from the original TSR team, you have to accept the previous one on gods.
Originally posted by GFORCE99
You dismissed Ktendo's comment as misplaced faith. Thats opinion.
Sure the Revised Edition says otherwise to the Pentad, but aren't they both published? At least the Pentad is written by Denning. That means something (I think).
Ktandeo's comment is ambiguous, an easy read can make you lean one side or the other. But at that moment in your questionning there is only one element left to consider: the rule that there are no gods on Athas. The balance is thus tiped in the direction that that comment was not about real gods but made-up gods. Aldo Ktandeo as no way of knowing that.
Originally posted by Flip
There's a huge difference between what characters say in a book, and what's stated by the narrator.
If the narrator states something, than we hav eno choice but to accept it as a statement of fact.
If, however, the narrator states that a character says something, than the statement of fact is that the character made a statement. That statement, however, is from the perspective of the character, and is therefore biased by what the character knows or thinks he knows.
Flip says it better than me.
Originally posted by Nagypapi
Sometimes it astonish me how hardly people try to put gods on Athas somehow.
Why should we?
IMHO: part of Athas' uniqueness comes from the 'no gods' setup.
I totally agree with Nagypapi. I'm an agnostic (its probably more than you really want to know about me, but bare with me for argument's sake) and thus for me the real world religions and their gods are pure inventions. It shows you that humans in a world totally devoid of magic can invent it for themselves and fervently believe in it.
If athasians can do the same it makes them more real as a people than, say, if they had real gods in their past that have gone away. This is important because its an ungowing trend in DS: basic mechanical inventions were widely used by society (water pumps, magnification gogles, central heating) before the Time of Magic; halflings had organic tech before psionics and magic.
What these examples say, and the worship of non-existant gods fit in with them, is that, just like real-world humans, athasians can exploit any real-world concepts and integrate them on a massive scale in their society, just like we did in our history.
Originally posted by Kamelion
Also, take a look at the flibook illustration of the work on Kalak's Ziggurat in "Freedom". You can make out murals of what look like divine figures locked in combat, commanding the weather, dispensing bounty to followers etc. I could make out three or four distinctly identifiable beings.
Murals like these can be found on Earth, does it mean that the gods of old were real? What happened to them, did they die out?
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
I think most of us can agree to the fact that there was once (and could be still) belief in gods on Athas, but from a canonical standpoint, it is most unlikely that these gods existed as divine entities per the D&D rules for gods.
...
Murals like these can be found on Earth, does it mean that the gods of old were real? What happened to them, did they die out?
If you go by the published material, they never existed at all.
There is a better depiction of the murals on the ziggurat in the top-right illustration on the poster map of Tyr from the 1st boxed set. It shows 10 distinct figures (although the top 4 are little more than anthropomorphic blobs). Taken with the stuff from the second boxed set on Godshold, it seems to me that the murals on the ziggurat represent some portion of the pantheon of Green Age gods that were gathered at Godshold. I'm not proposing that these gods were real or anything, just trying to gather together game information on who these alleged divinities were. I intend to take a deeper look at Godshold sooner or later as part of my Scorched Plateau stuff - in detective mode right now ;)
Those figures could be ANYBODY with any amount of raw supernatural power.
As has been stated ad nauseum, legendary heroes are frequently deified after their deaths... Think about Herakles, from Greek mythology.
They don't even have to have been terribly powerful. If they left enough of a legacy, they could easily have had myths built up around them.
Romulus and Remus, for another example.
However there are god-like powers evident in the DS world. The sorcerer kings bestow spells upon their templars, spirits of the land empower druids and the elemental planes charge clerics. Specifically in the case of sorcerer kings this was due to a living vortex attaching itself to them. The vortexes are now no longer living but its presumable that an equally powerful being in the green age could have attracted a vortex (the avangion and/or the thri kreen leader). That would be a viable way for them to grant powers to their followers and would substitute for god worship.
My slant is that gods dont and have not existed on DS but belief in higher beings has and does. These higher beings are not gods in the classical sense as in other worlds but for all intents and purposes are the Athasian equivalent. So no gods but there is god worshiping....go figure
So no gods but there is god worshiping....go figure
Funny, that's how I see our world. :p
A few things I've been kicking around.
The Cult of Badna.
After Abalche-Re's death and following the turmoil in Raam, a few members of the Order of the Hardened Mind (a semi-formal group of earth clerics and psychic warriors) infiltrated the Queen's Palace to loot the treasure troves. During a running fight with some of the warlord groups who were doing the same thing, they all came to one of the lowest levels, a great underground cavern steam and boiling mineral pools. During the final fighting between the Mind and the warlord troops, the mists became thick and tangible, wrapping around the combatants and holding them fast.
A face filled with rage and ruin appeared to form from the steam as words of great power echoed throught the cave. "You have laughed and you have mocked me. Never again. You have denied and you have disgraced me. Never again. You have brought naught but suffering and misery and death to those few who had not forsaken me. Never again."
In an instant, the mists swirled about the men, ripping and tearing at limbs, severing heads from bodies, and flinging gore about the cavern. Nearly half the men were torn to pieces. The rest felt overcome with fear at what they thought to be their inevitable demise.
The ethereal visage changed, its eyes calming, the voice growing tender and compassionate. "You who still breathe are my chosen. I grant you life this day that you may surrender it unto me. You will call me Lord and bring others to me that they too may know me as Lord . . ." The mists became intangable once again, releasing the men it held fast. They quickly dropped to the ground in penetant obedience. At long last, one of the Order of the Hardened Mind dared speak.
"Master, by what name does our Lord chose to be known?" he said with as much humility as he could muster. The answer came as thoughts into the mind. Badna. The being the people of Raam dismissed for so long as their Queen's imaginary concoction to control her citizens. Now there was proof of Badna's presence and of his power. And woe to those who say otherwise for his followers have been granted powers unlike any other.
(Mechanics) Badna is something of a mystery. He effectively doesn not exist until he chooses to manifest himself. He can control the mists of the Great Chamber for any number of effects (hold person, shield, various fist spells, etc, anything you can think of). He is not a god, as he so claims, but he can grant those who follow him a special gift. Those chosen by Badna as worthy worshipers can gain several of his mist manifesting abilities. How he grants these is entirely unknown, unless of course, Badna is ancient enough to have a link to an elemental vortex himself. Badna and his followers have taken over the Palace itself and offer protection to those who show true faith in him. The Palace is run by the former members of the Order of the Hardened Mind who offer clerical services and training in the ways of being a psychic warrior. Unlike the other camps, they are not actively raiding Raam to increase their holdings, yet through the influx of followers, they are steadily growing beyond the Palace and Temple grounds. To those who chose to venerate Badna, the followers are kindly and offer more than simple aid. To those who denounce Badna, only death awaits. The Cult of Badna is still quite small compared to the camps of the Night Runner elves, House M'ke, and the Noble Houses, but they are well fortified. Interstingly enough, the Cult has turned away or slain many of Abalach'Re's former templars; apparantly, many of the old guard never had any real faith in the teachings of Badna, even as they enforced his worship on the populace under the Queen's ruling.
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
Funny, that's how I see our world. :p
Well if a god in the D&D omniverse requested all his followers to live like paladins and the only spell he blessed them with was "Spread warm fuzzies" and banned any planar travel to promised eternal paradise untill death....I wouldnt think he'd end up with a lot of followers with the other gods to choose from :p
Here on the other hand.....
"Evil corruption started spreading across the inner planes, threatening to destroy the Balance. Gods banded together and banished it to its own plane. Of course, the Blight wasn't the only thing that was banished and few mephits were trapped there as well. Mephits wanted more than just the total blackness of the now-banished blight so they tried making worlds (Guthay, then Ral (another argument grew out of that one: was Ral the larger moon or was Guthay? Or was Athas a moon of one of them?)), both failures. Then they made Athas.
Mephits aren't wont to work together, so the world was constantly at war with itself, but continued down the path towards creation arriving at Athas as it was in the Blue Age. The Mephits, trapped along with the Blight and always seeking greater power, wanted subjects. They went about creating animals, simple at first, but then rising in complexity until they finally created Halflings (to worship them and turn them into gods). Didn't work, but the mephits became elemental lords (mainly due to the total lack of predators they would have had to face in their native environment)."
And so on. In short, there are no gods on Athas, only elemental lords. All DS books are fairly clear on that.
For a last point, again, don't put too much faith in what artists draw. When they were told to draw a step pyramid, they likely just jumped in - at that point, the designers probably didn't know exactly how harsh they were going to make Athas.
In my Planescape days, mephits, especially dust mephits, were the biggest source of comic relief and the PCs were abused constantly by the torment of a small handful of reaccuring mixmatched mephit group (one of each of the cooler mehpits, bout 6 or 7 total).
Now, to think that these same comical little guys are the ones pulling the strings and slinging the major elemental mojo about, running things on the Athasian planes . . . sorry, but I'm laughing so hard right now tears are streaming from my eyes. Not that its a bad idea, in fact, I may just incorporate at least the mephit as Elemental Lord part, especially without changing their inheirent personalities
I thought the tour of Kemalock (City of the Ancient Dwarven Kings) has been a highlight so far of Crimson Legion novel (except of course the cool gladiator battles).
Originally posted by Cyrian
I actually have an old adventure called the Star of Badna that was posted to the list years ago. I can't for the life of me find anything in there that says who wrote it, only that it would be posted on "Nightfal's" webpage. And it's all in 2ed rules too, of course. I could send it to someone to post up if they want to check it out.
Well... actually I'm quiet interested! My player's are travelling to Raam and must admit I haven't yet any idea of adventure... I know I should better prepare my campaigns but players are sometimes stubborn and don't understand the sage advices of their master... they think they must go to Raam... and they do.
So thanks gladly for you help!! ;)
Nefal
HERE
Stumbled across it while looking for another site for another thread
Originally posted by Mach2.5
The Star of Badna adventure can be found here (not sure if the host is the creator as well).
HERE
Stumbled across it while looking for another site for another thread
Thanks once more Mach... you're really helpful! And this adventure doesn't seem too bad! The creator of The Star of Badna is Daniel Bandera...
Nefal
While there wouldn't have been any Dragons or Avangions around, there would have been epic elementals and spirits of the land.
They might have even claimed to be gods.
Taking the whole elemantal vortex thing with a grain of salt (see Dragon Kings), it seems likely that these early advanced beings might have attracted their attention as well, and therefore been able to grant spells to Templar-like agents.
This has the advantage of
(1) preserving the original flavor
(2) giving us more to work with in planning adventures linked to the distant past. How great would an epic adventure be that culminated in the release of an ancient "Diety?"
While there wouldn't have been any Dragons or Avangions around, there would have been epic elementals and spirits of the land.
They might have even claimed to be gods.
Taking the whole elemantal vortex thing with a grain of salt (see Dragon Kings), it seems likely that these early advanced beings might have attracted their attention as well, and therefore been able to grant spells to Templar-like agents.
This has the advantage of
(1) preserving the original flavor
(2) giving us more to work with in planning adventures linked to the distant past. How great would an epic adventure be that culminated in the release of an ancient "Diety?"
I think an individual on Athas would need something a bit more tangible than faith.
Note that I'm not arguing that there were gods on athas. I'm saying there weren't. I'm providing an possible addition to the story-line that is very much on line with the original and (if I do say so myself) has a lot of potential to be TIGHT!
1) Explain the unknown (God did it). The unknown is tied to uncertainty, which is tied to perceived risk and in some instances fear. Believing in an entity of higher being reduces the uncertainty and thus the perceived risk and fear.
2) Control others through fear (God will smite you if you don't do as he says/I say). If you proclaim to command forces people fear, and they believe it, you can gain power over them.
They had to get the idea from somewhere, don't ya think? Sure, there may have been religions in the green age, but gods.... I doubt. It just doesn't fit for Athas IMHO.
More to the point, is it reasonable that the feathered serpent was, in fact, an epic druid/psion (perhaps cleric/psion)?
Originally posted by Jon, Oracle of Athas
It could be one of several reasons, Stidwell. Yes, the feathered serpent *could* have been an epic druid. There are many possibilities. I reccomend you do a search on the word 'god' on these forums.
Problem with that is this:
"The search term you specified (god) is under the minimum word length (4) and therefore will not be found. Please make this term longer. "
Could try "gods" I guess.