Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 brimstone Oct 22, 2003 13:56:01	So...I was checking out Amazon.com today and I saw that Key of Destiny finally shows up on the pre-order list...but it has a street date of December '03. Is this accurate!? If so, that's a shame. Any news on the DM Screen yet?
#2 kalanth Oct 22, 2003 13:59:55	I was curious about the Monsters Manual for Dragonlance. When is that hitting the market.
#3 Dragonhelm Oct 22, 2003 14:09:20	Key of Destiny has been pushed back to December. DL DM Screen should be November. Bestiary - I'm guessing December.
#4 themind Oct 22, 2003 15:19:40	Thats a shame. Ive been waiting for Key of Destiny and the DM screen to come out for some time now. Well, now i dont have to keep looking at the store every so often.
#5 kalanth Oct 22, 2003 15:47:45	That is a big shame. I am not in the industry, so there is no way for me to understand fully, but I would figure the DM Screen to be the easiest thing to make in all of the D&D stuffs. Why is it always one of the last things out? Oh well. And December for the Bestiary? Big suck there, I kept hearing November, now I have to wait a bit longer. Does anyone have any links that show some of the nice features of the books (and screen)?
#6 daedavias_dup Oct 22, 2003 16:04:56	To me, it doesn't matter when they come out, but the fact that they are coming out in the first place. Although I am anxious to buy those three products(and the Towers book), I like the fact I can save up the money to do so(and refine my map conspiracy theory). So they are late, WHOOPIDY DOO!!! At least we are getting DL products in the first place.
#7 kalanth Oct 22, 2003 16:18:10	Don't get me wrong, my complacency comes from anxious anticipation. I agree that it is nice that we are inevitably getting the Dragonlance stuffs.
#8 iltharanos Oct 23, 2003 2:36:31	Let's not forget that Sovereign Press is at this moment cranking out products for their other RPG (Sovereign Stone). Perhaps that is a partial explanation for any delays in the Dragonlance line.
#9 baron_the_curse Oct 23, 2003 4:09:42	The thought that Sovereign Stone would take precedence over Dragonlance is simply preposterous! Good day, sir!
#10 silvanthalas Oct 23, 2003 7:56:17	Time to update my upcoming product listing again...
#11 zombiegleemax Oct 23, 2003 9:04:09	I am just as anxious for these products to be released but I also do not think that this strategy is smart fopr Dragonlance/Soverign Stone. People are going to get tired of waiting for these products and may not want to buy them when they finally are released. We have waited almost 15 or so years for these products, they need to be mindful of that and release the products when they say they are going to.
#12 Dragonhelm Oct 23, 2003 9:12:18	Guys, please don't be down on Sov. Press. This isn't anything they're doing on purpose. Some delays came up which couldn't be helped, and they're just doing their best to not only crank out the products, but get back on schedule. Also, as was mentioned, they do have the Sovereign Stone line, and they also work on other projects beyond (i.e. Margaret is an author). So please be patient, guys. I know it's rough to wait, but when you see what is to come, you're just going to love it.
#13 zombiegleemax Oct 23, 2003 9:21:23	Dragonhelm, you speak as if they dont already have these products ready to ship, all printed up and waiting to go. People are going to loose interest if this type of behavior is kept going. Customer satisfaction should be the main focus of every business and the problems of the company should not affect their fan base.
#14 brimstone Oct 23, 2003 9:52:15	Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn Dragonhelm, you speak as if they dont already have these products ready to ship, all printed up and waiting to go. That has to be the most asinine comment I've ever seen. What the hell makes you think that?
#15 brimstone Oct 23, 2003 10:18:27	Oops...double post thingy.
#16 Dragonhelm Oct 23, 2003 10:41:23	Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn Dragonhelm, you speak as if they dont already have these products ready to ship, all printed up and waiting to go. If they were ready to go, don't you think they'd be in stores already? People are going to loose interest if this type of behavior is kept going. Customer satisfaction should be the main focus of every business and the problems of the company should not affect their fan base. Imagine, then, if you got a product from them that was on time, but was rushed, or incomplete. People would definitely complain, and would lose interest. Many game companies have delays. I've been waiting for Mindshadows from Green Ronin since July, but now it looks like it will either be the end of this month, or next month. Yes, I'm disappointed in the delay, but I know it will be worth it. Yes, the products are a month or two behind, but compared to some game companies who have had delays of 6 months up to a year, that's miniscule. Remember, we're still in the early months of Sov. Press' production of Dragonlance. I'm sure they're still working on getting everything down, especially considering how much WotC is involved. Consider this a growing pain, and nothing more.
#17 baron_the_curse Oct 23, 2003 13:02:57	I have to agree with Dragonhelm, albeit grudgingly, I want these products now! But I understand his point. I’ve been waiting for some game products from Eden Studios for months now. Game Trade has then listed as “release” several months ago while Eden Studios website has them listed under “in progress”. But Soveriegn Press won't make us wait that long...
#18 daedavias_dup Oct 23, 2003 13:38:29	Originally posted by Baron the Curse I have to agree with Dragonhelm, albeit grudgingly, I want these products now! But I understand his point. I’ve been waiting for some game products from Eden Studios for months now. Game Trade has then listed as “release” several months ago while Eden Studios website has them listed under “in progress”. But Soveriegn Press won't make us wait that long... So far I have found one company that has released EVERY product on their scheduled release date, and that is Alderac Entertainment. However, they have two months between each book release and most of the books aren't that great in the first place. This is what happens when schedule takes precedence over quality. We all can expect quality from Sovereign. ...I just hope my map conspiracy didn't lead to the DM screen being pushed back, that would make me feel terrible. It would explain a little, since SP would have to get the rights to release the map in one of their products(a complete version of the one already contained within the pages of the DLCS), and they would have to have it printed for inclusion. Hopefully I am not building up the hopes of anyone here.
#19 frostdawn Oct 23, 2003 14:45:01	My 2 hopes for the new supplementary books and KoD adventure are that the background story/timeline of Dragonlance isn't repeated 2 or 3 times in each book like in the Dragonlance Campaign setting and Age of Mortals. And while the outside borders of the pages from the 2 existing books look nice and everything, they are essentially a waste of space where more source material could be printed. Those are my only real gripes. Other than that, I'm really happy that we now have Dragonlance as a playable campaign again. Sorry if I sound like a whiner, just voicing my concerns is all.
#20 zombiegleemax Oct 23, 2003 19:00:55	I hope that companies will learn from the mistakes of the now defunct Image comics. They were late in getting their products out on the shelves all of the time and their fan base got tired of it. They stopped buying the products. Dragonhelom, if these books were not already printed up, how would the cover and the number of pages and the retail prce that is suggestged already be out for people to know?
#21 baron_the_curse Oct 23, 2003 19:09:05	Amaron, that’s easy. Because is drafted that way. They first decide how many pages the product is going to have, if is going to be hardcover or softcover, black and white or color and so on. If is decided that the product will have 120 pages then the authors have 120 pages to work with, no more and no less. Base on this they come up also with the retail price.
#22 Dragonhelm Oct 23, 2003 21:31:14	Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn I hope that companies will learn from the mistakes of the now defunct Image comics. Image Comics is still around and kicking, and doing much better than they were in their early days. They were late in getting their products out on the shelves all of the time and their fan base got tired of it. They stopped buying the products. That is one of many reasons. Take the carbon copy characters (i.e. Roman (Namor) ), poor writing in their early days (i.e. Youngblood), and a number of other factors as well. Dragonhelom, if these books were not already printed up, how would the cover and the number of pages and the retail prce that is suggestged already be out for people to know? As Baron says, it's drafted that way. There's a number of factors involved in producing a book. You have your outline, then you have to hire people to write the book. Some parts are hired out, depending on the talents available. Then you have art orders as well, design and layout, editing, etc. etc. Plus, since DL is licensed, everything has to be approved by WotC. I'm sure I've missed a few steps in there as well. As for art, cover art is often one of the first things produced, since that's the image that is advertised the most. For example, the cover to Towers of High Sorcery was done a long while back - at least to this GenCon (if not the one before???). I do understand where you're coming from. I was a big fan of the Hellshocke limited comic book series back in the day, and was so dissapointed in the delays and eventual cancellation of the subsequent Hellshocke ongoing series after 3 issues. As I mentioned above, I've been waiting since July for Mindshadows. So have faith. Sovereign Press is just going through some initial growing pains for now, but it will get better.
#23 baron_the_curse Oct 23, 2003 22:00:10	... Hellshock... now that was a true shame... great story, great art, it just never got done.
#24 zombiegleemax Oct 23, 2003 22:13:55	Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn Dragonhelom, if these books were not already printed up, how would the cover and the number of pages and the retail prce that is suggestged already be out for people to know? Have faith Amaron. Key of Destiny will be worth the wait. You might even find that it gives you more than you bargained for. Trust me. *walks away whistling innocently*
#25 randpc Oct 24, 2003 0:07:37	Originally posted by Kai Lord Have faith Amaron. Key of Destiny will be worth the wait. You might even find that it gives you more than you bargained for. Trust me. *walks away whistling innocently* And the competition to kidnap and ransom Kai Lord for info shall begin. In my dreams that's a hint that we might see a decent map included....unfortunately I doubt my dreams will be fulfilled anytime soon. Perhaps the books have been delayed for editing reasons? God knows that's one area they havent exactly excelled in as yet.
#26 carteeg Oct 24, 2003 7:14:13	Maybe they needed the extra time to give more details on the orc civilization, the story of the survival of Soth's pet Tarrask, and the rules for how to use the three moon phase chart to govern lycanthrope changes. :D
#27 Dragonhelm Oct 24, 2003 7:16:37	Originally posted by carteeg Maybe they needed the extra time to give more details on the orc civilization, the story of the survival of Soth pet Tarrask, and the rules for how to use the three moon phase chart to gover lycanthrope changes. :D Okay, who spilled the beans? ;)
#28 carteeg Oct 24, 2003 7:49:04	Ummm.... Bob Novak, and it's also in Joe Wilson's book. [* Sorry, everyone. I couldn't resist. ;) *]
#29 cam_banks Oct 24, 2003 9:31:14	Originally posted by Kai Lord Have faith Amaron. Key of Destiny will be worth the wait. You might even find that it gives you more than you bargained for. Trust me. *walks away whistling innocently* And if that's too much for you, you can always make slight adjustments so that it's exactly what you bargained for. *walks away winking conspirationally* Cheers, Cam
#30 daedavias_dup Oct 24, 2003 12:02:13	Originally posted by Dragonhelm Okay, who spilled the beans? ;) *raises hand sheepishly* They made me do it. They tickled me...a lot...it was horrible...I lasted three days...
#31 kalanth Oct 24, 2003 14:19:38	After the Towers of High Sorcerery book that is supposedly in January, what else is projected to be released? Personally, I would love to see books that take the place of the old box sets that were dedicated to just the Dwarves or just the Minotaurs.
#32 zombiegleemax Oct 24, 2003 15:03:28	Originally posted by Kalanth After the Towers of High Sorcerery book that is supposedly in January, what else is projected to be released? Spectre of Sorrow, Price of Courage, and the War of the Lance Companion to name a few.
#33 zombiegleemax Oct 27, 2003 16:16:53	As good DMs, we should be able to run wonderful endless campaigns without the products that have not been released. If it takes SP another year or so, I'm still glad they put out what they did. I have patience, with that and also knowing I am a good GM and can run campaigns until we recieve their products. To the guys and gals at SP, you are doing a great job, I say take your time to get it right. If you rush things, it will just give some more people something to b!tch about. Soth
#34 nicodemus_dup Oct 28, 2003 1:58:40	Originally posted by Kai Lord Spectre of Sorrow, Price of Courage, and the War of the Lance Companion to name a few. Spectre of Sorrow? Price of Courage? Are these the remaining parts of the adventure modules or are these books detailing organisations (Knights of Solamnia, ...) ?
#35 silvanthalas Oct 28, 2003 6:51:23	Originally posted by Nicodemus Spectre of Sorrow? Price of Courage? Off the top of my head, these are parts 2 and 3 of the AoM books that starts with Key of Destiny.
#36 zombiegleemax Oct 28, 2003 8:49:49	When is the holy order of the stars SUPPOSED TO BE RELEASED?
#37 Dragonhelm Oct 28, 2003 9:19:25	Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn When is the holy order of the stars SUPPOSED TO BE RELEASED? Holy Orders of the Stars should be released in 2004. I do not have an official date yet.
#38 kalanth Oct 28, 2003 9:35:02	Originally posted by Soth As good DMs, we should be able to run wonderful endless campaigns without the products that have not been released. If it takes SP another year or so, I'm still glad they put out what they did. I have patience, with that and also knowing I am a good GM and can run campaigns until we recieve their products. To the guys and gals at SP, you are doing a great job, I say take your time to get it right. If you rush things, it will just give some more people something to b!tch about. Soth I agree, but it nice to know that we can get excited with future materials being released. I almost cried, I was so happy, when I first touched my DLCS. What stopped me? The clerk showed me a DLCS (which I had to buy) that was printed upside down and backwards. That, my friends, is a collectors item.
#39 zombiegleemax Oct 28, 2003 19:17:36	I hope that it comes out soon! How many of you feel the same way a bout these products?
#40 elf_nfb Oct 29, 2003 7:11:27	Originally posted by Soth As good DMs, we should be able to run wonderful endless campaigns without the products that have not been released. Soth But what about us lazy half*****ed DM's. Don't we count? ;) Seriously though, I'm disappointed in the push back but I can wait. I'm a fairly new DM and still don't have a handle on creating my own adventures (not to mention a lack of time) so I rely on others to come up with the grand stories. This way I can concentrate on new a various ways to kill my players!
#41 zombiegleemax Oct 29, 2003 7:47:24	Well hell, if you really want to kill your players, just have a cult start pushing a 'new' deity into Takky's old role. Some deity like, oh, I don't know... Nyarlathotep.
#42 zombiegleemax Oct 29, 2003 16:33:17	but what about we DMs who have work or school and dont have time to make up adventures. What are we suppose to do, sit on our hands?
#43 daedavias_dup Oct 29, 2003 17:06:35	Originally posted by Amaron Blackthorn but what about we DMs who have work or school and dont have time to make up adventures. What are we suppose to do, sit on our hands? Agreed.
#44 zombiegleemax Oct 29, 2003 17:41:16	I think this has been mentioned in another thread, but you could always adapt adventures from modules made for non-DL stuff. Not too much needs to be changed to make them work, as I recall, so that should save some time in the campaign-readying process. The Book of Challenges, also, is a nice place for all-purpose ideas to throw into an adventure or base one around. I'm very fond of that book.
#45 zombiegleemax Nov 09, 2003 16:33:55	well at least we have a projected release date for these products.
#46 zombiegleemax Nov 09, 2003 16:34:13	well at least we have a projected release date for these products.