Solamnics - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Solamnics

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kalanth
Oct 23, 2003 14:53:57 Ok, I was just reading one of my DL novels and something popped into my head that I never really thought of before in the D&D game. Exactly when does a Solamnic (and a Nerakan for that matter) become an officer? Is it like the US military, where there is a special training for officers and enlisted? Or is it that when you reach a certain character level (or branch of the knighthood) you become an officer. Also, is there a set name for each officers rank (i.e. Captain, Major, Lt. Colonel, etc.)?
#2
zombiegleemax
Oct 23, 2003 16:03:31 Hi, well to tell you the truth, I don´t really know the answer to your question, but I can tell you that it is likely that a solamnic can advance in hierarchy acordingly to ther level. Just remember that the NPCs and the PSs (not the players) do not know what a level is. They know that they are more experienced and that they might be more prepared for more difficult situations.

The three knigthly orders have a hierarchy of their own. A knight of the rose is superior to knights of the sword, for instance (or that is what I have always thought so).

On the other hand, a character will not advance in hierarchy only because of their levels. A drill "sargeant", or whomever acts like a tutor to new "recruits" may be of an advanced level and yet not wanting to get so involved with knightly matters and thus prefering not to advance in hierarchy.

Well, this is only a opinion based in common knowledge and not based in informations purely from the official novel, but I guess that, if not opposed to what the great Authors of our most beloved novels have already stated, then you can use any advancement rules you wish, as long as they keep a logic that would suit a noble warrior organization (never forgetting that they are very political).

Hope I´ve helped you somehow!

#3
kalanth
Oct 23, 2003 16:18:27 You have helped, actually. I too believe the same of the Rose vs. Sword vs. Crown ideals (supported by the fact that one must progress from crown to sword to rose). In esscene, it comes down to this, I will use a US military based rank structure (thanks to your suggestion of using whatever system I feel) when it comes to the Knights unless some other individual (usually Dragonhelm in these cases, so I noticed) comes along with a more divine answer. To break it down further, I would place the Crown as the enlisted members, and then you would go through OTS (Officer Training School) when you achieved Sword. If you were entered to the Rose order, you would be about the equivalent of an O-6 in the military (Colonel, or Captain ), and progress through the General ranks in there. Promotions would be based on actions, deeds, and valor, instead of character levels, and each time you level and report a writen submision to the knightly counsel you are considered for promotion. The ten levels of the PrC in the Crown can cover the ranks of E-1 through E-9, long as you make rank. Anyone (as in the real military) can be considered for OTS as well. I think my players (and the one lone KoS) would like the idea of becoming a Drill Instructor (or Training Instructor if you are Air Force).
#4
dragontooth
Oct 23, 2003 16:38:10 Well I look at it like this All the Knights of Solamnia are officers. The reason I say this is in the time of war the Solamnics have regular army units that aren't Solamnic Knights. Yes the Rose are higher then the Sword, and Sword is higher then the Crown.

Also in the Legend of Huma, Huma mentions that all Knights have to take a leadership role within their unit. I think its at the very beginning of the book.
#5
zombiegleemax
Oct 25, 2003 20:16:35 Remember that the Solamnics are a KNIGHTLY order and that until fairly recently, most of them were nobles.

In real world Medieval knightly orders, knights were typically above conventional soldiers. "Lower" ranks performing conventional military roles were held by common soldiers, with knights acting as commanding officers.

It has been mentioned in the novels that seniority affects chain-of-command in the Solamnic Knighthood. Older knights traditionally had more authority than younger ones. I seem to recall Tanis using this to pull rank in Time of the Twins.
#6
zombiegleemax
Oct 25, 2003 20:43:13 Though they did away with the level names in 3e, in the tales of the lance, and the dragonlance adventures books (2e & 1e, respectively), both list the titles of the ranks of the Knights of Solamnia. Command rank is probably based on those titles.
#7
zombiegleemax
Oct 28, 2003 0:36:52 The order of the Rose is definitely the one that should see the majority of command positions, as their having got that far is usually a sign of competence, valor, courage and temperance. If there are some self-centered, greedy or politically power-hungry knights, they should all be (with the rare exception - Soth comes to mind) in the lower orders, mainly Crown. I don't think the gods would care to put some of their power in the hands of such individuals, and Sword and Rose knights must be clerics to enter their respective orders.

For the ranks thing you are free to do as you wish, but somehow I'm not sure contemporary titles fit a medieval military hierarchy quite perfectly. I don't know the history of these titles [to think that I study History what a shame ], but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't all be there ... commander would fit, but you should check the titles in the 1st Edition hardback for ideas. They could each be attributed to a specific position instead of a level, because as have been said before the position should reflect both the achievements of the knight and his willingness (not necessarily following political scheming, it could very well be just an affinity for leadership - or lack thereof) or his superiors' needs to have a position of command. I could very much see for example a Crown veteran in an important position because of his experience in the field and the good perception his superiors have of him because of his humility and lack of hunger for power.

And, concerning the Knights... I'm running a campaign set between the WoTL and the Chaos War (which won't happen as it did, but we all heard that one before;) ), and before the DLCS came out I did try to approximate the population of Ansalon's cities and keeps. I would like to have your thoughts on the High Clerist's Tower in particular. It wasn't occupied during the WotL but it looks like it could very well serve as a power base of the Order, or headquarters if you prefer, after the War. With that in mind, I thought that there could've been around 350 people in there at all time, counting those manning the Knight's Spur: around 100 knights proper, the same number of guards/recruits not knights per se, about 50 squires/pages, 15 pure clerics of the three patron gods of the knighthood, 20-30 craft/maintenance people, and 50 or so visitors and foreign people. I'm also interested in knowing how many people there are in Kalaman after the War. The DLCS says around 3000 but that's after the attack of the KoT, the Chaos War -and- the War of Souls. Would 5000 people before these events be a good guess?
#8
kalanth
Oct 28, 2003 9:25:37 You ask me, and intreging questions such as the rank structure of the Knight hood(s) are why we need books dedicated to just those things. I know I would buy a book dedicated to only the KoS, KoN, and LoS.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kalanth Oct 23, 2003 14:53:57	Ok, I was just reading one of my DL novels and something popped into my head that I never really thought of before in the D&D game. Exactly when does a Solamnic (and a Nerakan for that matter) become an officer? Is it like the US military, where there is a special training for officers and enlisted? Or is it that when you reach a certain character level (or branch of the knighthood) you become an officer. Also, is there a set name for each officers rank (i.e. Captain, Major, Lt. Colonel, etc.)?
#2 zombiegleemax Oct 23, 2003 16:03:31	Hi, well to tell you the truth, I don´t really know the answer to your question, but I can tell you that it is likely that a solamnic can advance in hierarchy acordingly to ther level. Just remember that the NPCs and the PSs (not the players) do not know what a level is. They know that they are more experienced and that they might be more prepared for more difficult situations. The three knigthly orders have a hierarchy of their own. A knight of the rose is superior to knights of the sword, for instance (or that is what I have always thought so). On the other hand, a character will not advance in hierarchy only because of their levels. A drill "sargeant", or whomever acts like a tutor to new "recruits" may be of an advanced level and yet not wanting to get so involved with knightly matters and thus prefering not to advance in hierarchy. Well, this is only a opinion based in common knowledge and not based in informations purely from the official novel, but I guess that, if not opposed to what the great Authors of our most beloved novels have already stated, then you can use any advancement rules you wish, as long as they keep a logic that would suit a noble warrior organization (never forgetting that they are very political). Hope I´ve helped you somehow!
#3 kalanth Oct 23, 2003 16:18:27	You have helped, actually. I too believe the same of the Rose vs. Sword vs. Crown ideals (supported by the fact that one must progress from crown to sword to rose). In esscene, it comes down to this, I will use a US military based rank structure (thanks to your suggestion of using whatever system I feel) when it comes to the Knights unless some other individual (usually Dragonhelm in these cases, so I noticed) comes along with a more divine answer. To break it down further, I would place the Crown as the enlisted members, and then you would go through OTS (Officer Training School) when you achieved Sword. If you were entered to the Rose order, you would be about the equivalent of an O-6 in the military (Colonel, or Captain ), and progress through the General ranks in there. Promotions would be based on actions, deeds, and valor, instead of character levels, and each time you level and report a writen submision to the knightly counsel you are considered for promotion. The ten levels of the PrC in the Crown can cover the ranks of E-1 through E-9, long as you make rank. Anyone (as in the real military) can be considered for OTS as well. I think my players (and the one lone KoS) would like the idea of becoming a Drill Instructor (or Training Instructor if you are Air Force).
#4 dragontooth Oct 23, 2003 16:38:10	Well I look at it like this All the Knights of Solamnia are officers. The reason I say this is in the time of war the Solamnics have regular army units that aren't Solamnic Knights. Yes the Rose are higher then the Sword, and Sword is higher then the Crown. Also in the Legend of Huma, Huma mentions that all Knights have to take a leadership role within their unit. I think its at the very beginning of the book.
#5 zombiegleemax Oct 25, 2003 20:16:35	Remember that the Solamnics are a KNIGHTLY order and that until fairly recently, most of them were nobles. In real world Medieval knightly orders, knights were typically above conventional soldiers. "Lower" ranks performing conventional military roles were held by common soldiers, with knights acting as commanding officers. It has been mentioned in the novels that seniority affects chain-of-command in the Solamnic Knighthood. Older knights traditionally had more authority than younger ones. I seem to recall Tanis using this to pull rank in Time of the Twins.
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 25, 2003 20:43:13	Though they did away with the level names in 3e, in the tales of the lance, and the dragonlance adventures books (2e & 1e, respectively), both list the titles of the ranks of the Knights of Solamnia. Command rank is probably based on those titles.
#7 zombiegleemax Oct 28, 2003 0:36:52	The order of the Rose is definitely the one that should see the majority of command positions, as their having got that far is usually a sign of competence, valor, courage and temperance. If there are some self-centered, greedy or politically power-hungry knights, they should all be (with the rare exception - Soth comes to mind) in the lower orders, mainly Crown. I don't think the gods would care to put some of their power in the hands of such individuals, and Sword and Rose knights must be clerics to enter their respective orders. For the ranks thing you are free to do as you wish, but somehow I'm not sure contemporary titles fit a medieval military hierarchy quite perfectly. I don't know the history of these titles [to think that I study History what a shame ], but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't all be there ... commander would fit, but you should check the titles in the 1st Edition hardback for ideas. They could each be attributed to a specific position instead of a level, because as have been said before the position should reflect both the achievements of the knight and his willingness (not necessarily following political scheming, it could very well be just an affinity for leadership - or lack thereof) or his superiors' needs to have a position of command. I could very much see for example a Crown veteran in an important position because of his experience in the field and the good perception his superiors have of him because of his humility and lack of hunger for power. And, concerning the Knights... I'm running a campaign set between the WoTL and the Chaos War (which won't happen as it did, but we all heard that one before;) ), and before the DLCS came out I did try to approximate the population of Ansalon's cities and keeps. I would like to have your thoughts on the High Clerist's Tower in particular. It wasn't occupied during the WotL but it looks like it could very well serve as a power base of the Order, or headquarters if you prefer, after the War. With that in mind, I thought that there could've been around 350 people in there at all time, counting those manning the Knight's Spur: around 100 knights proper, the same number of guards/recruits not knights per se, about 50 squires/pages, 15 pure clerics of the three patron gods of the knighthood, 20-30 craft/maintenance people, and 50 or so visitors and foreign people. I'm also interested in knowing how many people there are in Kalaman after the War. The DLCS says around 3000 but that's after the attack of the KoT, the Chaos War -and- the War of Souls. Would 5000 people before these events be a good guess?
#8 kalanth Oct 28, 2003 9:25:37	You ask me, and intreging questions such as the rank structure of the Knight hood(s) are why we need books dedicated to just those things. I know I would buy a book dedicated to only the KoS, KoN, and LoS.