Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Oct 24, 2003 15:49:59	What do you suppose that this Prime world would be like if the Planescape Factions suddenly sprang to life as the foremost philosophical groups here?
#2 jasperdm Oct 24, 2003 16:11:49	I'd go nuts trying to decide whether to follow my gaming life and become a Guvner, or my religious beliefs, and go with the Dusties... In all seriousness, the whole world would be not be that different, IMHO, alot of the factions match up with real-world religions, how hard would it be for, by example, a Gnostic to become a Dustman? Or a Christian to become a Godsman? Or nihilist to become a Sinker...not that much. Rememebr, each faction walks over so many religions and political attitudes...
#3 zombiegleemax Oct 24, 2003 20:06:01	What would be more interesting would be if the world found a large, easily accessable portal to Sigil.
#4 Shemeska_the_Marauder Oct 24, 2003 21:48:49	Well hopefully this isn't treading on too many toes here, and no offense meant, so mods keep that in mind before you shut this down if we discuss real world religions etc. I think it would be more likely that Mormons rather than Christians would trend more along the lines of the Godsmen, looking at respective philosophies and all. To some extent the Ciphers would fall into some branches of Christianity, though there is that aspect of the Athar that can be taken as a shade of Judeo-Christianity. I'll throw the floor open to anyone else to play around with this. Me personally I'd be inclined to go Cipher or Athar. More likely Athar than Cipher. Unless my namesake on the boards here was involved. ;)
#5 zombiegleemax Oct 24, 2003 22:36:22	I always saw a strange connection between some of the more Eastern taoist philosophies and the cipher mantra. Perhaps that merely my perspective. I even adopted a few expressions from eastern sources and incoporated them into the cipher faction (the only one that springs to mind was "If you understand, things are just as they are. If you do not understand, things are just as they are." (edit) Just remembered another one: "Though one man conquers a thousand men a thousand times in battle, he who conquers himself is the greatest warrior." (Buddha) (edit again) Remembered another, a joke told by other factions about Ciphers: Q: How many ciphers does it take to light a torch? A: A tree in a golden forest. (In case you couldn't teel, I gave the ciphers more developement than any other faction in my game).
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 25, 2003 1:49:36	I couldn't wait until the first McDonald's opens in Sigil.
#7 sildatorak Oct 25, 2003 2:56:48	In this post, please note that I disregard the mind's eye. That is because I hate them very much. I think I may hate them more than I hated the Signers because they corrupted my beloved Godsmen (would it be Godsfolk or Godspersons in 3e?) Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder I think it would be more likely that Mormons rather than Christians would trend more along the lines of the Godsmen, looking at respective philosophies and all. Mormons are Christians, but I think we know what you mean. To some extent the Ciphers would fall into some branches of Christianity, though there is that aspect of the Athar that can be taken as a shade of Judeo-Christianity. I'd agree about the Athar. Particularly if you look at post-Constantine Rome for examples of Christianity interacting in a polytheistic world. Belief in an unknowable higher power, treating other worshipped beings as imposters/demons, etc, it all works out. I don't know about the Ciphers, though. I would think that the Believers of the Source are more in line with Christianity (trials and temptation make you stronger when you overcome). I'd also say that the Harmonium and Sons of Mercy line up with some branches of Christianity, too. Some parts of doomguard and bleaker philosophy line up well with Buddhism, but I'd be hesitant to place either firmly under that banner. The doomguard's "everything is fleeting" philosophy lines up more, but the bleakers' attempts to come to terms with the pointlessness of existense are more similar to some of the actions. The Free League is agnosticism (not really a religion but a religious stance). Dustmen could be tweaked a little to fit into any of the religions with a Karmic cycle and reincarnation. The concept that you need to free yourself of emotion and attachment to transcend this world sounds very Hindu/Buddhist to me, but these two categories have a huge amount of variation within them (Hinduism is actually a British category from the imperial age to categorize native practicioners in India, in case anyone cares). Ciphers seem to me to fit into Taoism or some branches of Buddhism. Sensates, Anarchists, Sign of One, Fated, Guvners, Sod Killers, and Xaositects are the factions that I would say don't really fit into any religions I can think of. On second thought, I can see the Frat. of Order as being Confucianists, though it is a pretty loose fit.
#8 Shemeska_the_Marauder Oct 25, 2003 3:10:35	Originally posted by Sildatorak Mormons are Christians, but I think we know what you mean. Well if we go purely on the philosophy of Mormonism versus most branches of Christianity, Mormonism is about as connected to Christianity as Islam or Judiasm are. There's some splits in doctrine that are pretty profound. I didn't say what I did above lightly or offhandedly. No offense meant, but those key differences are still profound. I mentioned the Godsmen for Mormonism because of the mormon idea of becoming a deity of your own universe, literally, after you die. It may not be presented in LDS missionary material or commonly mentioned outside their faith itself, but its there. Add to that you must be married to another mormon for this to happen, etc (though I'm not as well educated on that last aspect). If anyone here does know, please educate. I don't care to get bogged down in a debate about the various fractious factions of the Abrahamic religions and their various and sundry wacky offshoots, but if you're curious do some digging on the topic. It leads to the rather odd assertation that in many ways Adam = god in the LDS church. *shrugs and steps off the soapbox* We now return you to your normally scheduled rant on the factions. hmm... still lacking something of normality... hmm... ah *Is vain, shallow and mean to you all*
#9 incenjucar Oct 25, 2003 3:21:35	When it comes down to it, no faction would perfectly fit in any one RL faith.. more likely, they would start their own, with some adopting more Terran ideas than others. Few would accept pure monotheism, I'd think, which would put them at serious odds with most Terran primes. *awwws at 'Shemmy'... silently, of course*
#10 sachiel Oct 26, 2003 1:12:01	Now if we're talking socio-political as opposed to theological, I often compare the USA to the Harmonium. *grin* In the sense that, we are right, so if you don't agree with us, you have to be wrong. The part about beating sense into those that are wrong is optional of course...
#11 incenjucar Oct 26, 2003 1:52:43	Well, that's one group, at least. Sensates would probably be limited to tantric people, at least the 'true sensates', rather than the hedonistic nutballs which can be found -anywhere-. The punk and anarchist groups will take up a faction or three... The Mercykillers... would end up vigilantes... The Dead would all go hide in the desert to get away from the goth posers.... :D
#12 zombiegleemax Oct 26, 2003 10:51:29	For some reason, I have a feeling that the Signers would all get thrown in the looney-bin
#13 lord_of_the_ninth_02 Oct 26, 2003 11:24:50	'Course the xaositects and half the bleakers would also be in insane asylums too. I'd say the Christians would a mix up of Athar, Harmonium and maybe the Godsmen (but I never really saw them as having this aspect any more than any other religion). They have their god which they cannot know anything about (not even his real name half the time, I mean is he God? Is he Jehova? Is he Wah-Yeh?), and the belief that other gods are somehow an insult to their god (this is the Athar), then there's the whole "we need to save these people, whether they like it or not" mentality that the Christians are so famous for (harmonium), and then you have the other stuff. Fated are either Lawyers or criminals (and some work for the IRS, but I'll bet this is less common than in Sigil because they get to keep less of the money). Everybody who isn't somehting else is an Indep, even if they aren't entirely aware of it (that's why no one can ever stop the indeps).
#14 zombiegleemax Oct 27, 2003 2:51:27	What would be really interesting? How the Sigilians (and the Lady) react to the Sigil's brand new Super Walmart.
#15 zombiegleemax Oct 27, 2003 3:45:41	Wal-Mart wouldn't be allowed in Sigil. It's pretty clearly stated that the Lady keeps Dieties and even some powerful demons, etc. out of Sigil. Wal-Mart surpasses most cannon creatures and organisations in sheer evilness and power. They'd be banned.
#16 sildatorak Oct 27, 2003 13:13:21	Walmart in Sigil would be great! You could pay for a 12 gauge with about 10 gold pieces if they were still using the earth economy, plus you could get yourself a reloader, black powder, and a bunch of cold iron and silver shot. I bet the yugoloths would take it over in no time since it could impact the bloodwar so strongly.
#17 zombiegleemax Oct 28, 2003 15:15:06	Originally posted by Tertek For some reason, I have a feeling that the Signers would all get thrown in the looney-bin Speaking as a person who is as close to the signer philosophy in real life as one can get, YES, getting thrown in the gatehouse is a BIG fear of mine. But then, getting past feeling insane is the first step, I suppose...