Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 retsamerol Oct 26, 2003 2:11:29	Any idea how she qualified for Knight of Sword with 1 level mystic, 3 levels rogue, 2 levels fighter and 1 level crown? That gives BAB +5 by my count. Speaking of Knightly progression? What's the recommend way to go about it? Do you spend a lot of time in lower orders or do you blast through it? And should you do pure cleric before or do you do one level of cleric and the rest fighter? Thanks
#2 cam_banks Oct 26, 2003 8:03:10	Originally posted by retsamerol Any idea how she qualified for Knight of Sword with 1 level mystic, 3 levels rogue, 2 levels fighter and 1 level crown? That gives BAB +5 by my count. Yeah, her stats aren't quite right. The Solamnic prestige classes are something of a maze of requirements - in fact, to get to Crown Knight, she'd have had to rely on rogue levels to do it, which although is just fine by me, doesn't sit well with people who associate rogues with thieves. To qualify for Sword Knight, she also needs Will +4, which she won't get with Mys1/Rog3/Ftr2/Crown1. Add an extra level of mystic, and she'll get both the +6 BAB and the Will +4. Speaking of Knightly progression? What's the recommend way to go about it? Do you spend a lot of time in lower orders or do you blast through it? And should you do pure cleric before or do you do one level of cleric and the rest fighter? Thanks All Sword Knights need at least 1 level of Crown and all Rose Knights need at least three levels of Sword, so those are pretty much fixed. How you get to Crown and how you qualify for Sword, on the other hand, is at least somewhat flexible. I think Cleric4/Crown3 gets you into Sword Knight speedily, with more spellcasting than a Ftr4/Crown1/Cleric 2 (which is the other speedy way into Sword). Cheers, Cam
#3 retsamerol Oct 27, 2003 4:03:11	cool. one more thing, is there a restriction on patron diety? it says that kiri-jolith grants the spells in the flavour text, but the game requirements don't outright state it. so could you have a cleric of mishakal in the solamnic upper ranks?
#4 cam_banks Oct 27, 2003 8:13:11	Originally posted by retsamerol cool. one more thing, is there a restriction on patron diety? it says that kiri-jolith grants the spells in the flavour text, but the game requirements don't outright state it. so could you have a cleric of mishakal in the solamnic upper ranks? The Knighthood's patron deities are Habbakuk and Kiri-Jolith, although Habbakuk has taken a back seat more or less. Paladine would also be appropriate prior to the Chaos War for Sword Knights, but no - clerics of Mishakal, Majere and Branchala would be out of luck. They make fine Solamnic auxiliaries, however. Cheers, Cam
#5 zombiegleemax Oct 27, 2003 10:02:09	Check out the sidebar on a Sword Knight's duties. Kiri-Jolith is pretty fervently mentioned as their deity of choice (it actually says revere Kiri-Jolith and all good deities or something like that, but they basically get powers from Kiri). I also think it mentions somewhere that each of the orders actually has a specific patron deity, too. Doesn't grant spells or anything, but just sort of a 'favored' one. Habbakuk for Crown, Kiri-Jolith for Sword, and Paladine for Rose. Ofcourse, this gets difficult post-Chaos war, since Paladine's out and all. Just some interesting tidbits. A Sword Knight revering Habbakuk would be cool, I think. Just like a Ranger launching into the Knighthood would be interesting (revering Habbakuk as a nature deity).
#6 kalanth Oct 27, 2003 10:08:25	Originally posted by Cam Banks All Sword Knights need at least 1 level of Crown and all Rose Knights need at least three levels of Sword, so those are pretty much fixed. How you get to Crown and how you qualify for Sword, on the other hand, is at least somewhat flexible. I think Cleric4/Crown3 gets you into Sword Knight speedily, with more spellcasting than a Ftr4/Crown1/Cleric 2 (which is the other speedy way into Sword). It also depends on how high you want to go. The PC in my game that became a knight did not pass his quest to gain entry to the Rose knights, and since he is a race other than Half-Elf and Human (and I am still pretty harsh on the Half-Elfs), he is not being given a second chance. So his character progression will now look like this. Ftr 4/ Mystic 4/ Crown 2/ Sword 10 He was actually quite happy being in the Sword, but wanted to be the first in his family ancestry to go beyond the order of the Sword.
#7 retsamerol Oct 27, 2003 12:50:54	That's another little point. The flavour text says that only recently have halfelves been allowed, and that they almost let a dwarf in, but decided against it. So does that mean that one of the hidden req's is human/half-elf? Wasn't there some 1/2 kender that was accepted as training? (I think it's the short story Kender Soup, but can't cite book) Also, the flavour text says that the Sword Knights pay homage to kiri-jolith and other gods of good. I can't find anywhere that Habbakuk is signalled out. They do make mention of Valthonis, but he's mortal. So it seems like they either only worship Jiri-Jolith and no others (including Habbakuk), or knights are free to worship any god who's a lg cleric alignment (ie. kiri, hab, mish, or majere). Personally, the second option seems more befitting of the revised measure... Oh... and how does Fighter 2/Crown 1/Cleric 4 compare to Crown 3/Cleric 4? It looks like you get an extra feat in exchange for slower initiative. Only downside I can see is you spend less levels as a Knight, but I'm not aware of any knight rank rules...
#8 cam_banks Oct 27, 2003 13:22:15	Originally posted by retsamerol That's another little point. The flavour text says that only recently have halfelves been allowed, and that they almost let a dwarf in, but decided against it. So does that mean that one of the hidden req's is human/half-elf? Wasn't there some 1/2 kender that was accepted as training? (I think it's the short story Kender Soup, but can't cite book) A gully dwarf was made a squire by Gunthar uth Wistan, too, believe it or not. Of course, by that point in his long life the Grandmaster was a few pouches short of a kender. I think assigning a racial limit would be just fine - there really aren't any elven, dwarven or (heaven forbid) ogre Solamnic knights, and if there were any they'd be unique and probably constitute a DM-sanctioned exception. Also, the flavour text says that the Sword Knights pay homage to kiri-jolith and other gods of good. I can't find anywhere that Habbakuk is signalled out. They do make mention of Valthonis, but he's mortal. So it seems like they either only worship Jiri-Jolith and no others (including Habbakuk), or knights are free to worship any god who's a lg cleric alignment (ie. kiri, hab, mish, or majere). Personally, the second option seems more befitting of the revised measure... The knights revere all of the gods of good, but that's different from having a patron deity. All clerics require service to one and only one deity, which rules out the "I am a cleric of good" angle supported by the core D&D rules. Clerics of good deities get along fairly well with other good clerics, so there's no real problem with Solmanics having assistance from clerics of Mishakal, Majere, etc. However, all flavor text and rules vagaries aside, a Knight of Solamnia who takes levels in cleric in order to progress as a Knight of the Sword should choose Kiri-Jolith or Habbakuk. Oh... and how does Fighter 2/Crown 1/Cleric 4 compare to Crown 3/Cleric 4? It looks like you get an extra feat in exchange for slower initiative. Only downside I can see is you spend less levels as a Knight, but I'm not aware of any knight rank rules... Ftr2/Clr4/Crown1 gets 2 bonus fighter feats while Clr4/Crown3 gets heroic initiative and the Diehard feat, so the only real tradeoff there is how committed your character is to the qualities of the Order of the Crown. You can assume by the number of levels you have in the Crown PrC that the knight has progressed a certain degree towards the ideals of the Order, even if there are no associated titles or additional ranks. It's a moot point when you switch to Sword Knight, at any rate. Cheers, Cam
#9 zombiegleemax Oct 27, 2003 13:37:19	Remember that if you don't get Diehard as a Crown Knight, you'll need to take it if you want to get into Sword. So you pay for it, one way or another. I did: Cleric 3 / Fighter 1 / Crown 1 Being trained as a fighter has its perks, I think. That bonus feat is also really helpful. I personally think it's worth it to keep going in Crown after that point, then into Sword, making it look something like... Cleric 3 / Fighter 1 / Crown 3 / Sword 3 And then continue with Sword, or advance to Rose. The thing about Habbakuk is mentioned near the back of the book, I think. At least, if it's not in the Knight of Solamnia section. I don't have my book on me...
#10 daedavias_dup Oct 27, 2003 14:04:21	*technically off-topic* If you think of it in the right sort of way, there is a silver dragon Knight of Solamnia...(*psst* try and guess what I mean ).
#11 brimstone Oct 27, 2003 14:53:05	Originally posted by Daedavias If you think of it in the right sort of way, there is a silver dragon Knight of Solamnia...(*psst* try and guess what I mean ). Arlena Plata...aka, D'Argent. :D
#12 zombiegleemax Oct 27, 2003 20:28:12	Which book(s) is D'Argent a knight in? I'm only starting to sift through the 5th age novels I missed, so I am curious where I can catch up with some of the characters, such as D'Argent and Gilthanas. sorry, off topic i know, but curiousity.
#13 daedavias_dup Oct 27, 2003 22:12:23	Originally posted by Winterknight Which book(s) is D'Argent a knight in? I'm only starting to sift through the 5th age novels I missed, so I am curious where I can catch up with some of the characters, such as D'Argent and Gilthanas. sorry, off topic i know, but curiousity. She is one at the end of Oddyssey of Gilthanas and also in the Dragons of a New Age trilogy.