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Archliches in GH?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Oct 27, 2003 10:48:55 Are there any archliches (good-aligned human liches) or baelnorn (elven liches) in GH?
If there are, can any point me to the correct reference material?
The reason I'm asking is because I have Monsters of Faerun (boo and hiss if you must) and I thought it'd be cool if there were already some good liches in GH rather than me having to introduce one from scratch.
Thanks all.
#2
cwslyclgh
Oct 27, 2003 20:02:08 I don't know about good human liches, but I do know of at least 1 non-evil human lich (Lyzandred the Mad, LN wizard 20 lich)
#3
zombiegleemax
Oct 27, 2003 20:33:26
Originally posted by cwslyclgh
I don't know about good human liches, but I do know of at least 1 non-evil human lich (Lyzandred the Mad, LN wizard 20 lich)

Right on. Way to cite precedent.
#4
Argon
Oct 27, 2003 21:22:53 Good Liches ? If you want to have one create it from scratch. A little imagination goes a long way.
#5
grodog
Oct 27, 2003 23:59:56 Here's a list of all the liches I know of, taken from Jason Zavoda's index:

Acererak {Devourer}(Lich)(Male)[NPC]
Asberdies (Lich)[NPC]
Azalin (Lich)[NPC]
Dahlvier (Count)(Lich)[M18][3eM18][NPC]
Darkstar (Dracolich)[NPC]
Dragotha (Dracolich)[NPC]
Drokkas (Lich)[NPC]
Gloomwhisper (Dracolich)[NPC]
Haas'Baalbar (Lich)[NPC]
Hathamriz (Lich)[NPC]
Imprimus (Smirtch the Gloam)(Lich)[NPC]
Karzalin (Lich)[M18][NPC]
Krakev (Lich)[NPC]
Lerrek (Lich)[C19][NPC]
Lyzandred (Lich)[NPC]
Maerynae {Merynae}(Marquess)(Suel Lich)[M17][NPC]
Ranial (Lich)[NPC]
Rexifer (Lich)[NPC]
Vecna {Chained God}{Dying King}{Maimed Lord}{Whispered One}
(Lich)[Deity][NPC]
Zhawar Orlysse (Lich)[M25][NPC]

I don't know all of these liches myself, so others will have to say if any of them are benign or olven....
#6
zombiegleemax
Oct 29, 2003 5:30:07 According to MM under the description of becoming i lich it says something like: "the undertaking of becoming a lich is extremely evil and can only be done volentarily by the subject". So if you wish to go by the book, then there are no good liches in GH.
#7
zombiegleemax
Oct 29, 2003 11:35:54
I don't know all of these liches myself, so others will have to say if any of them are benign or olven.... [/b]

Or you could ask:

"Are you a good Lich . . . . or a bad Lich"

Can one be classified as the Wicked Lich of the West.
#8
cwslyclgh
Oct 29, 2003 12:22:23
Originally posted by ElMuf
According to MM under the description of becoming i lich it says something like: "the undertaking of becoming a lich is extremely evil and can only be done volentarily by the subject". So if you wish to go by the book, then there are no good liches in GH.

Flavor text is written to be ignored ;)

seriously, since there are no ramifications for changing your alignment in D&D whos to say that a once evil mage who became a lich could not have had a change of heart latter on.
#9
zombiegleemax
Oct 29, 2003 13:07:59 I don't like the idea of good undead, unless the condition is forced upon them. I think that the state of undeath is considered an abomination my most good entities and would not be entered into voluntarily.
Scott
#10
cwslyclgh
Oct 29, 2003 13:39:31 the Starwars trillogy teaches us that no matter how bad you are there is always hope of redemption...

think of Darth Vader... a wizard could fall from grace like Anykin Skywalker, and become a lich... why could he not after centuries on "the dark side" come to the realization that he had been wrong, and change his goals to try and helping the world?
#11
zombiegleemax
Oct 29, 2003 19:44:36
Originally posted by cwslyclgh
think of Darth Vader... a wizard could fall from grace like Anykin Skywalker, and become a lich... why could he not after centuries on "the dark side" come to the realization that he had been wrong, and change his goals to try and helping the world?

Umm... 'cause it's cheezy and lame?

Besides which, the inherent nature of the undead is evil. You are imbued with evil energy. Although I don't mind the notion of someone fighting against that nature, I would only allow it as a rare instance, and certainly not a permanent change, since eventually the evil would win.
#12
zombiegleemax
Oct 31, 2003 12:22:22
Originally posted by cwslyclgh
seriously, since there are no ramifications for changing your alignment in D&D whos to say that a once evil mage who became a lich could not have had a change of heart latter on.

True... but changing alignment on i whim to get the cool combo smells a little like roll playing. Not to say an evil lich could never ever change its ways but it should be the rarest of sights. Its just like I told one of my players once: "No... you can´t start as a paladin with the intention of becoming a fallen paladin/blackguard". It´s just not sound roleplaying.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Oct 27, 2003 10:48:55	Are there any archliches (good-aligned human liches) or baelnorn (elven liches) in GH? If there are, can any point me to the correct reference material? The reason I'm asking is because I have Monsters of Faerun (boo and hiss if you must) and I thought it'd be cool if there were already some good liches in GH rather than me having to introduce one from scratch. Thanks all.
#2 cwslyclgh Oct 27, 2003 20:02:08	I don't know about good human liches, but I do know of at least 1 non-evil human lich (Lyzandred the Mad, LN wizard 20 lich)
#3 zombiegleemax Oct 27, 2003 20:33:26	Originally posted by cwslyclgh I don't know about good human liches, but I do know of at least 1 non-evil human lich (Lyzandred the Mad, LN wizard 20 lich) Right on. Way to cite precedent.
#4 Argon Oct 27, 2003 21:22:53	Good Liches ? If you want to have one create it from scratch. A little imagination goes a long way.
#5 grodog Oct 27, 2003 23:59:56	Here's a list of all the liches I know of, taken from Jason Zavoda's index: Acererak {Devourer}(Lich)(Male)[NPC] Asberdies (Lich)[NPC] Azalin (Lich)[NPC] Dahlvier (Count)(Lich)[M18][3eM18][NPC] Darkstar (Dracolich)[NPC] Dragotha (Dracolich)[NPC] Drokkas (Lich)[NPC] Gloomwhisper (Dracolich)[NPC] Haas'Baalbar (Lich)[NPC] Hathamriz (Lich)[NPC] Imprimus (Smirtch the Gloam)(Lich)[NPC] Karzalin (Lich)[M18][NPC] Krakev (Lich)[NPC] Lerrek (Lich)[C19][NPC] Lyzandred (Lich)[NPC] Maerynae {Merynae}(Marquess)(Suel Lich)[M17][NPC] Ranial (Lich)[NPC] Rexifer (Lich)[NPC] Vecna {Chained God}{Dying King}{Maimed Lord}{Whispered One} (Lich)[Deity][NPC] Zhawar Orlysse (Lich)[M25][NPC] I don't know all of these liches myself, so others will have to say if any of them are benign or olven....
#6 zombiegleemax Oct 29, 2003 5:30:07	According to MM under the description of becoming i lich it says something like: "the undertaking of becoming a lich is extremely evil and can only be done volentarily by the subject". So if you wish to go by the book, then there are no good liches in GH.
#7 zombiegleemax Oct 29, 2003 11:35:54	I don't know all of these liches myself, so others will have to say if any of them are benign or olven.... [/b] Or you could ask: "Are you a good Lich . . . . or a bad Lich" Can one be classified as the Wicked Lich of the West.
#8 cwslyclgh Oct 29, 2003 12:22:23	Originally posted by ElMuf According to MM under the description of becoming i lich it says something like: "the undertaking of becoming a lich is extremely evil and can only be done volentarily by the subject". So if you wish to go by the book, then there are no good liches in GH. Flavor text is written to be ignored ;) seriously, since there are no ramifications for changing your alignment in D&D whos to say that a once evil mage who became a lich could not have had a change of heart latter on.
#9 zombiegleemax Oct 29, 2003 13:07:59	I don't like the idea of good undead, unless the condition is forced upon them. I think that the state of undeath is considered an abomination my most good entities and would not be entered into voluntarily. Scott
#10 cwslyclgh Oct 29, 2003 13:39:31	the Starwars trillogy teaches us that no matter how bad you are there is always hope of redemption... think of Darth Vader... a wizard could fall from grace like Anykin Skywalker, and become a lich... why could he not after centuries on "the dark side" come to the realization that he had been wrong, and change his goals to try and helping the world?
#11 zombiegleemax Oct 29, 2003 19:44:36	Originally posted by cwslyclgh think of Darth Vader... a wizard could fall from grace like Anykin Skywalker, and become a lich... why could he not after centuries on "the dark side" come to the realization that he had been wrong, and change his goals to try and helping the world? Umm... 'cause it's cheezy and lame? Besides which, the inherent nature of the undead is evil. You are imbued with evil energy. Although I don't mind the notion of someone fighting against that nature, I would only allow it as a rare instance, and certainly not a permanent change, since eventually the evil would win.
#12 zombiegleemax Oct 31, 2003 12:22:22	Originally posted by cwslyclgh seriously, since there are no ramifications for changing your alignment in D&D whos to say that a once evil mage who became a lich could not have had a change of heart latter on. True... but changing alignment on i whim to get the cool combo smells a little like roll playing. Not to say an evil lich could never ever change its ways but it should be the rarest of sights. Its just like I told one of my players once: "No... you can´t start as a paladin with the intention of becoming a fallen paladin/blackguard". It´s just not sound roleplaying.