Or was it destroyed? Considering the level of magical and psionic might required to blot out entire races (as was done during the Cleansing Wars), did both sides in the Wars make a conscious effort magically to literally destroy all steel, in an attempt to cripple the fighting effectiveness of their enemies?
As was stated in the original DS box set, the reason Tyr's army was so feared was not that it was well-trained or that it held more potent templar officers...but that it had a high quantity of steel weapons. Tyr held the only iron mine known on Athas, and as such, it held a huge advantage.
So, could the Champions've wiped out most iron ore in an attempt to cripple the armies of the nonhumans? Could the steel and iron that remains be that which was held by the humans?
--or am I totally off-base here NB
There was a large amount of metal on Athas before and during the Cleansing Wars. However, early on, when the Champions began to complete their wars, they also began to look at each other, their vast armies, and tried to cripple their fellow Champion's ability to wipe them out - one of these was to use magic to destroy the metal weapons and armor of the other Champions' armies. Kalak hid the iron mine near Tyr, to hopefully gain an advantage, while the others settled into their own cities. Some of the Champions horded the steel in their own vaults, out of fear that their people might attempt to rise up and possibly kill their leader.
Originally posted by Nero's Boot
...but where did all the metal on Athas go to? Is there some motherlode of metal arms and armor waiting for an epic Athasian PC to find?
Or was it destroyed? Considering the level of magical and psionic might required to blot out entire races (as was done during the Cleansing Wars), did both sides in the Wars make a conscious effort magically to literally destroy all steel, in an attempt to cripple the fighting effectiveness of their enemies?
As was stated in the original DS box set, the reason Tyr's army was so feared was not that it was well-trained or that it held more potent templar officers...but that it had a high quantity of steel weapons. Tyr held the only iron mine known on Athas, and as such, it held a huge advantage.
So, could the Champions've wiped out most iron ore in an attempt to cripple the armies of the nonhumans? Could the steel and iron that remains be that which was held by the humans?
--or am I totally off-base here NB
your theory is quite good and it made me think but is there in any DS product a spell transforming it to dust or could a desintegrate( psionic version) destroy iron??
I also know that somewhere in the DS product ( Cant remember witch one ) I read that most of the iron ( not in ore state) had rusted to dust.
According to this, I suppose there are still metal veins in the mountains, but they are hardly accessible, or it's clarity or amount makes it not appropriate to mine out. Actually it is a nice DS campaign idea, which evolves around a newly discovered metal vein...
--granted, my oxydation-fu is weak, so feel free to contradict me NB
Originally posted by Nero's Boot
Then where'd the metal go to? If the mines were stripped clean, then that by necessity means that a crapload of metal is waiting somewhere in the Athasian wastes. Considering how dry the Athasian ecosystem is, it's unlike much rusting would've occured, so it must be out there somewhere.
--granted, my oxydation-fu is weak, so feel free to contradict me NB
It went into the weapons and armor of the armies. The armies went to battle. And the dead bodies with the equipment remained there. The winners not scavenged all the metal, as that time they tought it is not neccessary, as metal is abundant. (In Greyhawk, nobody takes the simple dagger of the fallen enemy, as it is commonplace). So they simply rusted away there. (The Cleansing War took a long time, but the Champions haven't aged, so they didn't have to hurry.)
But it just one thing. I feel here you confuse two terms: not available, and not existing. On Athas metal is not available. It doesn't mean that it doesn't existing. You are right, there are stores of metal on Athas, especially in the ruins. During the Cleansing War they could be garrisons, where arms and armor was stored, or smithies. (Just think about Kemalok -of course a stock like that is very rare). Other, already manufactured metal (wepons, armor) could be lost as I described above. Even if they not rusted away, they are in the earth on long-forgotten battlesites, or rivers washed them away, into the sea which later becomed the Sea of Silt -again, this stock is not accessible. Raw metals can be destroyed, or sealed deep into mountains during 'destroy mining outpost' actions. So actually there is a plenty of metal on Athas, but in such forms or places which are not known, not accessible or not usable for the current Atahsian population.
Originally posted by Nagypapi
As I get the impression of the DS materials: metal was simply used up.
That's my impression as well. In the first boxed set, the Wanderer says something like, "I think by the standards of our ancestors, Tyr's iron mine would be a pitiful thing, not worthy of mining." But that's all that's left; the more plentiful veins have been mined away already.
Originally posted by Nero's Boot
Then where'd the metal go to? If the mines were stripped clean, then that by necessity means that a crapload of metal is waiting somewhere in the Athasian wastes.
Two words: Rust Monsters.
But yeah, one of the big bonuses to exploring ancient ruins is the possibility of finding steel weapons, armor, tools, etc. The well-known ruins would have already been picked clean, of course.
Originally posted by MrSpatula
Two words: Rust Monsters.
I think it would need quite an invasion of rust monsters to make all the metal of the Green Age Athas to disappear...;)
Now, as culture on Athas has been around for so long, it could well be that most surface deposits of metal ore have already been used up, and (as corrosion is not dependent on water alone) what had already been produced might have indeed simply rusted away.
Still, of course, that does not explain why Tyr's military advantage had been considered so great just because it had source of iron/steel, but that is quite a different topic, isn't it? ;)
Originally posted by Phoenix_Down
I get the impression Athas was never very big to begin with... Consider how far the SK's built their kingdoms from the center of civilization, the pristine tower. Not too far.... which makes me wonder how far one would have to travel accross the sea of silt before finding themselves in the tyr region...
I have in my possession The DSR4 accessory called Valley of dust and fire. In it there's a map of the Silt sea region (with Ur Draxa right in the middle.)To answer your question, One wouldn't have to travel very far to cross the Silt sea ( depending on where he is on the other shore.)an its not as if it was impossible specialy in the green age which boats must have been very commun. the shortest route woul be from the Great salt Flat and from there through The Silt Archipelago and 180 km later your on the other shore. 270km south/east from Ur Draxa. A fiew km from this shore, there's a forest that seem to sretch beyond the map's border.