1- Before calling me crazy or posting worse comments please read throughout the whole idea (and I do beleive its not that crazy :D )
2- Again, throughout the whole thread keep in mind that Mindë is not a god in any way, just the essence of life on Athas(see below) much like the sun is not a god either but it does contain ( or may be entirely made of) raw power. -Prestine Tower, sadira, need I say more?- ( In this rule, there's my interpretation of the Sun of Athas)
3- So the Sun is also an essence but of something else which is strongly related to Mindë but how so? Not much was understood
4-creature = all animals(monsters,reptiles etc), humans(humanoïds) every being without the Plant template(although plants with a certain inteligence COULD be considered animals in this thread,)
My theory of Mindë is -to me- the result of Athas being so unique in History and event.
Lets start from the begining. We all know thanks to The Wonderer's Chronicles that Athas was a "water world" (historians called it the BlueAge)and that the only intelligent race was the Rhulisti. Those halflings were godless, no worshipers what so ever. But they revere one thing; Life and more in the sense of respect for it.
Here is where I should tell you "Who" Life is!!
Mindë(pronounced Min(as in) d-th(wispered-like) ey( as in ay in day)
So Mindë is the essence of life. Mindë is life. The essence means that Mindë is not a god, Më (abreviation of Mindë throughout the thread) has no Abilities ( str, dex, con, etc.). Më cannot destroy in any way (but the sun can; unintetionnaly throught its rays althought not in the BlueAge). Më is in every molecule in Athas and is part ethereal and solid ( fluide also called "water"), Thus Më cannot be measured in size nor weight. "Being" in every molecule, Më is present in all;a.k.a. lava, crystals, mountains(rocks etc), all fluides in existance(obviously), in all creatures; althought for some reason Më is transformed when part of creature composition( that's why millenia later, defilers will have a much harder time -more levels- defiling their "essence" to empower their spells) Undead are not creatures in this thread.( Neither ¨Më or the Sun are present in undead -negative energies are-)
To make it short Mindë is the 5th element-THE ESSENCE OF LIFE.
Më is not a plane of existance (like the other 4) so there is no trace of the 5th element in the Inner planes but Më is link to it.( some sort of strong symbiosis) The first known are of course Earth, Air, Fire and water. If you consider the Cosmos part of the Inner planes it would be the 6th. Although Më is not in the Inner planes,-like I said- she is link to it and considered here more important then the cosmos so this is why M
Mindë is my idea. It doesn't exist at all in the official product of DS I just think it would explain a lot and COULD be official
thank you!!
--it doesn't seem to work well, in my opinion, introducing things like this NB
Originally posted by Nero's Boot
I know you're not trying for an "overgod" concept, but this seems like a deity to me; one of the most refreshing concepts for Dark Sun was that it had no gods, be they over-, greater, intermediate, lesser, or demi-.
--it doesn't seem to work well, in my opinion, introducing things like this NB
I just wanted to theorise why Athas is much different from other setings. How come sorcerers can tap the life force to fuel their spell ? How come we never experienced this sort of sorcerer in other seting? How can "life" be fueled as spell energy if its just a normal "thing" (like any other world). If life is a "natural" aspect of Athas then why are the Inner planes so linked to Athas's Dying effect. (Athas is the only known setting with its own Inner plane)
The idea of Më is not a foolish notion. In my example it link everything in DSAnd why is Më a god? (Athas, Inner Planes, Sun, SKs, magic, Rhulitic rituals, Why the greenage and after the result of the cleansing wars) It cant just be a "natural" result.
Why is Më a god? She/it's not a god and never will be considered as such. You wont see me worship life.(although I do respect it)
Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
How come sorcerers can tap the life force to fuel their spell ? How come we never experienced this sort of sorcerer in other seting? How can "life" be fueled as spell energy if its just a normal "thing" (like any other world).
Because that's just the way magic works on Athas! Like how in Krynn, magic draws on the three moon gods (thus making Krynnish mages a type of cleric!), or the way the mages of Aebrynis (the Birthright campaign setting) draw upon the power of Nature; it's just a function of the setting.
Logic cannot be fully applied to a fantasy setting; if it is, the internal consistency of the setting breaks down. Many things have happened in the history of Athas (such as the growth of the Athasian sun) that, if we applied scientific-style logic, Athas should have been destroyed by now. But it hasn't, so one must assume that scientific logic can be safely thrown out the window.
--in a world with magic, physics no longer necessarily apply NB
Athas is cut off in more ways than that, too. As far as I know, there are only two ways off the rock: Dregoth's portal and the Githyanki portal. Other than that, there is no way off of Athas.
But this was not always the case, if you follow other campaign worlds. For example, Planescape makes mention of "the willowy elves from Athas" that are "dangerous" that habitate a plane. Don't know about you, but I would place bets that those dudes are decendents of Coranuu (the original one), who managed to run all the way to the outer planes to escape Albeorn.
So there are ways to exit Athas, but none are easy or obvious. In other words, Athas was cut off on purpose. Your idea for a higher power is as good an explanation as any, but, to keep it in line with the world, why not claim it as a "Spirit of the Land" on a much, much grander scale.
Personally, I'd like to just think that something about Athas scared the rest of the multiverse enough that they locked it away and made sure that getting there, getting out, or coming back, was extremely difficult. Locking out other powers is an interesting twist.
Originally posted by Dawnstealer
Your idea for a higher power is as good an explanation as any, but, to keep it in line with the world, why not claim it as a "Spirit of the Land" on a much, much grander scale.
Minde2
I’ll try to clarify things by using a metamorphosis of Athas into a human body.
1--The planet Athas is now a physical form of a human So Athas = human body
2—On Athas, what we thought, for a long time, gave life to the world, was water. For quite a long time scientist thought that blood, gave life to the human body. So Athas’s water(solid form of Më)= life blood of a human.
3--- Recently, those same scientists discovered that it wasn’t the blood itself that gave life to the human form, but the DNA which was in it.(for this example, lets extrapolate and forget for now that DNA is in all cells) So the human DNA = the ethereal form of Më: the essence of life(which in the Blue age, the biggest concentration of this essence of life was found in the oceans)
4--- Later the scientists studied that DNA and discovered why humans were different from each other: except for the rare twins triplets etc… Following the same evolution, during the Blue age, the Rhulisti discovered what created all those different races living in the oceans. So, the Essence of life = Më’s DNA: later called the building blocks of life by the future masters of a ritualistic art: the Rhulisti.
P.S. As a reminder: As DNA “is” not aware of what it is creating during its evolution sequence, neither is Mindë throughout the history of Athas. So Më’s essence of life and the human DNA are quite similar: they both create (unaware of the fact), defend themselves by a process called evolution, evolve (in the sense of getting better in all ways) using the same process, etc, etc.
5---The same way scientists can now manipulate the DNA of Humans, The Rhulisti Life –shapers found a way to manipulate Më’s “DNA” which they called : the Building blocks of all life.
6--- The same way scientists are now able to create living creatures (or even part of them) by mixing some DNAs(or not), The Life-shapers created all sorts of physical “living-beings/things” with a “science” called “Ritualistic manipulations”.
So why not call Mindë the Greater Spirit of the Land????
Because:
A--- "Spirits of the Land" are elementals aware of themselves with abilities of their own(str, dex, con, int, etc) Not Më
B---They are creatures(elementals) Not Më
C---More so, they can act as some sort of "demi-god"(I know they're not) because they can bestow spells to druids. Not Më
D--- The only similarities between Më and the SotL are that SotL can be ethereal: part of the land thus, untouchable (unless the land itself is destroyed) or, solid: when it manifest "physically". Më, is both at the same time(its solid form is liquid: water---ethereal form is the essence of life of Athas)
So you see, Më cannot be a spirit o t land. It is not even aware of its own existence. It just happensto be part of Athas's creation(similar to the after effect of the "Big bang" life creation evolution of our own cosmology; or what ever created Athas in the first place)
7--- Following the example: the blood system (Më), defends its human host(Athas) against “viruses” (brown tide) and such,with natural defences ; a.k.a. white corpuscles ( Spirits of the land). Nothing magical or god-like in there( neither should there be found any here) Simply said: Mindë is merely the fantansy planet’s DNA (building BLOCK of life—taken in the WotJC)
Anathema: Unaware of Më’s natural defence, the Rhulisti created the Pristine Tower which killed the brown tide. Did the SotL helped in any way?? No one knows and never will. The SotL will never speak of this. As a matter of fact they are the only ones who know the existence of Më. Nowadays Më is so weak(for obvious reasons) it can no longer create life, like it use to do in the Blue Age, only sustain it(again unaware completely) so no evolution is possible on Athas . That’s why it is slowly dying: one of the reasons anyway.
8--- Following the example, the BLOODY heart of a human is vital for its survival. In Athas, during the Blue Age, the heart was at the base of the jagged Cliffs; the same region where, in the Green age, Rajaat thought he had found a source of power and thus studied how to use it. Unlike the Rhulisti, Rajaat tried to use the essence of life in a way it wasn’t meant to be: To have instantaneous results (magic, rather then long and strenuous ritualistic manipulations) The result?? He almost killed himself trying to draw raw power in Më’s heart. The process transformed the region and broke the “chain reaction”of the building blocks creating chaos in what will later be known as the Swamp below, the misty border.
9--- I could go on and on……. But I think you get the idea.
P.S. Again, this is purely my own idea of explaining the unique traits of Athas it has nothing to do with the official material. Although, I used the canon material to create this idea J
Personally, I'd like to just think that something about Athas scared the rest of the multiverse enough that they locked it away and made sure that getting there, getting out, or coming back, was extremely difficult. Locking out other powers is an interesting twist.
That's interesting!!! Have you ever put any more thought in this idea you could share with us!!
honestly for me it doesn't matter if Me is a God, a Greater Overlord Nature Spirit or a space hamster ;) BUT I find your idea quiet interesting. I just don't want to use it because I'm already mastering a campaign on the As-sa'a setting (a world described in a french magazine).
I speak about this setting because the essential idea is the world a dead god (precislier a regenerating god)... Ok... and the first source of inspiration of this setting are some touareg myths. I don't know exactly which... but I could find them (maybe, if it interests you).
Maybe you could find in any other ideas or arguments to defend your Me.
Comments?
Nefal
Originally posted by Gr8Scott
Jihun, I like it a little odd but intriguing, I may borrow it with your permission
My plot on officially making Mindë canon material is slowly working
:D Nha!! seriously, I suppose your speaking for your own Athasian campaing and not an official accessory!!! If so...I would be kind of flatered if you'd consider my idea of Mindë in your campaing--You have my permission--
If you have any question about The Essence of Life , feel free to send me a PM or post it here.
Originally posted by Nefal
Hi!
BUT I find your idea quiet interesting.
Thank you
I just don't want to use it because I'm already mastering a campaign on the As-sa'a setting (a world described in a french magazine).
no prob
I speak about this setting because the essential idea is the world a dead god (precislier a regenerating god)... Ok... and the first source of inspiration of this setting are some touareg myths. I don't know exactly which... but I could find them (maybe, if it interests you).
It may. But if it's to hardious for you to find them, dont bother since i realy dont know if the idea of a regenerating dead god or anything related to it would, to my liking, MATCH Mindë's feel.
And thanks again...
En l'occurence je n'ai pas, en ce moment, la référence sous la main... mais ces mythes pourraient être intéressants pour expliquer les relations qu'entretiennent les habitants d'Athas avec Mindë (rites, cultes, croyances, etc.) Par extension, la place qu'ils occupent dans l'écosystème. Il pourrait être aussi envisageable de penser que ces habitants ont conscience de l'existence de Mindë aux travers de formes ou de concepts vagues ("la nature") qui sont devenus des lieux communs. Tout aussi concevable pourraient être une volonté de revitaliser cette entité... sans pour autant la rendre automatiquement régénérante.
Pourquoi ne pas baser une campagne sur la revitalisation de Mindë... il a existé par le passé des moyens pour la corrompre, pourquoi ne serait-il pas possible de renverser le processus (sans pour autant tomber dans la campagne "tout le monde est beau, tout le monde il est gentil")
Quelques réflexions...
Nefal
Smething I once hinted at was the "Spirit of Athas". It was the lifeforce of the world. It was alive but could not direct itself. It needed someone to guide it and its actions. I hinted (just to mess with players) that psionic powers were clerical in nature. The "fifth" basic element was spirit or the will and the way.
It made them go "huh?" and I never went back to it. Then came out the cleric's book and I just let it drop entirely.
You took the idea and ran with it. I like it.
Originally posted by Gr8Scott
Thanks Jihun, could you Email me some of your Ideas? I'll Also use you in my Campaign I. E. Jihun-Nish Elven Chieftain of >? Tribe. I like to utilize all for my Athasian World
e-mailing you any info on Mindë would be quite difficult because all the info is in my head(what I wrote a long time ago was mostly lost. That said I'd rather answer your questions witch I'll be honest could be made up on the spot.
Has for my Jihun-nish charachter,
1-- I'll ask you not to use him in your campaing(at least not until you have read its story because...
2--- you dont know nothing of him so how could you use the charachter ;) because you see....
3--Jihun-nish(Distant male) is not an elf but a Rhul-thaun(I'm still wondering where you got the idea he was an elf)
Other then that, ask me questions and I'll gladly answer them. And thanks again for your interest in Mindë.
1-- I'll ask you not to use him in your campaing(at least not until you have read its story because...
2--- you dont know nothing of him so how could you use the charachter ;) because you see....
3--Jihun-nish(Distant male) is not an elf but a Rhul-thaun(I'm still wondering where you got the idea he was an elf)
I looked at your picture, made an assumption of race, Which happens a lot on Athas. Hey, I just like to make the flavor better, not to insult. my new Gf is a Pharmacist and the 1st thing I told her was Dark Sun IS a priority and I read something of it before bed everynight. That being said, I just want to contribute to Athas to the BEST of my abilities. Using a name or character is STRICTLY to HONOR those of us that LIVE on ATHAS. NO OFFENSE intended. I would love to read on your Character
Originally posted by Gr8Scott
I looked at your picture, made an assumption of race, Which happens a lot on Athas.
I see. Well you'll probably agree with me thats with a lack of Rhul-thaun pics to choose from , I decided the (wild-looking) elf could come close to what Jihun-nish might look like. Until Dawnstealer draws me a portrait of Jihun-nish(when I'll be sure to know what he looks like and what I want him to do in the pic.
........ That being said, I just want to contribute to Athas to the BEST of my abilities. Using a name or character is STRICTLY to HONOR those of us that LIVE on ATHAS. NO OFFENSE intended. I would love to read on your Character
None taken. I just feel if someone uses the name Jihun-nish(or any other known char name for that mater) and *tag* it to one of his own char., How will he see the REAL char once he reads about him?? See what I mean by that. It kind of steal the *magic* out of it somehow.
Scott
Originally posted by Gr8Scott
Jihun, The idea is he's your Character, My Players in my campaign only hear of him and where he is and of course any info you allow me to have. I just want to add flavor to my gaming experience. I believe that the more we add, the more we can enjoy. your character(s) are an integral part of Athas. ALL of you are wlcome and desired in my Campaigns as I just want to "HONOR" you by including your names and characters in the Storyline.
Scott
What time line are you campainging in??(in Tyr's free years please)
this is important because I have a timeline in Jihun's story and depending on WHERE you are in time, the more you could know.
Where is your campaign taking place??(Tyr region, hinterlands, any chance in going near the Jagged Cliffs--if so, when--???)
--me likey Minde NB
Originally posted by Nero's Boot
Ah, I understand your view of Minde better now! So, the way you view it, Athas itself is non-sentient but alive, and the spirits of the land are like white blood cells, keeping the ecosystem "pure"? Interesting. Neat way to bring in an overgod without actually bringing in an overgod...
--me likey Minde NB
Yes, yes and yes and..
Thank you.