Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Argon Nov 05, 2003 22:56:55	I decided to start this thread because of all the gnome bashing going on. So I decided to try and get a positive response instead of a negative one. So here are the ground rules: The race must be GH specific (the standard phb races count). The race can also include a subspecies instead of the core race (such as Oeridians, Suel, Baklunish, etc). Ok I like my version of Trolls on Oerth, but since I can't include my homebrew version of Oerth races. I would have to say Hobgoblins because of thier lawful society and ability to organize battle worthy troops. I also like Dwarves because of their stoic society and rigidness in statue and determination. Dwarves and Hobgoblins what a beautiful thing. Ok now the rest is up to all you posters out their!
#2 zombiegleemax Nov 05, 2003 23:51:51	the Trollborn out of the Viking's Campaign Sourcebook of 2nd Ed. were pretty tight (I'd consider them Flan or Oeridian based out of one of the 3 cold barbarian domains), but I'd have to go with Suel of the Scarlet Brotherhood variety! Nah, just kiddin.. hrmm Yuan-Ti (they are a Greyhawk original later borrowed by Dark Sun IIRC) Non-Greyhawk I'd take Spelljammer's Vodonai hands down. Abyss
#3 zombiegleemax Nov 06, 2003 5:01:27	The Oerids are by far my favourite race. They were once under the yolk of the suel, a mere slave race, to end up dominating a region larger even than the Suel Imperium. There are no areas of the Flanaess that their influence has not touched. Though their kingdom is in ruins, it still yet influences half the known world and it's not about to die without a ****-fight
#4 Greyson Nov 06, 2003 10:43:29	My favorite is the Oeridian race of humans too. Yes, they pushed the Suel across the Flanaess and made other cultures feel their wrath. And they have also shown a self-sacrificing and loyal temperment, especially in Perrenland, Furyondy and Keoland. But mostly, I like the warrior spirit of the Oeridians. As noted above, that element of their character is a result of their experiences with other cultures, often bad experiences. But they have proven in the past that they can be very organized and capable governors and rulers.
#5 Argon Nov 07, 2003 18:50:20	The Oeridians are cool especially since much like the ancient romans they were willing to incorporate other cultures into their own. I took out the aweful line about the Oeridian people looking for magical armor and weapons. I figure being under the control of a magical empire like the Suel would make them not really like the Hecate that much. Any other Greyhawk race out their people come on I'll even except the Drow even though they don't exist IMC.
#6 zombiegleemax Nov 08, 2003 1:23:45	Originally posted by Delglath The Oerids are by far my favourite race. They were once under the yolk of the suel, a mere slave race, to end up dominating a region larger even than the Suel Imperium. I think you need to check the world maps. The Suel Imperium was HUGE, possibly bigger than the entire flanaess.
#7 zombiegleemax Nov 08, 2003 1:27:01	Anyway, my favorite human subrace is the Flan. The flan have this mystery about them, ancient empires now vanished type of thing. They are also the definite underdogs of the setting, and IMO the only true bastions of goodness left in humanity, mixing with them in the flanaess is what saved the other humans from total corruption.
#8 zombiegleemax Nov 08, 2003 6:48:31	Originally posted by Greyhack I think you need to check the world maps. The Suel Imperium was HUGE, possibly bigger than the entire flanaess. It was teency compared to the Flanaess. Please do check the map and get back to us about it. I love being proven right
#9 zombiegleemax Nov 08, 2003 15:12:43	I've outlined the ancient suel empire in red. If you squish the flanaess all together, taking out the water bodies, you can see that the imperium is damn close to being the same size. Note also that the suel definitely had some holdings in what is now the Yeomanry as well as the Amedio jungle, but I'm not clear as to the extent or boundaries of these. In any case, the imperium was by no means "teensy"
#10 zombiegleemax Nov 08, 2003 20:40:47	Originally posted by Greyhack I've outlined the ancient suel empire in red. Err... you've outlined the Empire of Zindia. The old Suel Imperium ends at the mountain range in the middle of that picture.
#11 zombiegleemax Nov 08, 2003 20:45:11	Emperor Norton declares this boundary dispute unworthy of debate, as gnomes are by far the most engaging of all the races.
#12 zombiegleemax Nov 09, 2003 4:00:26	Originally posted by Delglath Err... you've outlined the Empire of Zindia. The old Suel Imperium ends at the mountain range in the middle of that picture. There's no source to back that up. My logic here is that the Suel have a couple seafaring gods, why would a landlocked society have such deities? I offer that the realm now called Zindia was once part of the Imperium.
#13 zombiegleemax Nov 09, 2003 8:05:10	Originally posted by Greyhack There's no source to back that up. My logic here is that the Suel have a couple seafaring gods, why would a landlocked society have such deities? I offer that the realm now called Zindia was once part of the Imperium. Err... yeah there is, where do you think I got the name 'Empire of Zindia' from? I didn't just pull it out of a hat or make it up. Aside from that, it's only logical and fits with all of the previous work done on Greyhawk. There aren't any nations that span mountain ranges, all have been encapsulated within them. And if you're including the seas around the Sea of Dust, just because the Suel pantheon has sea gods, then the same applies to the Flanaess, which only makes it a much greater disparity since the Flanaess has a much bigger coastal area, meaning it touches on more seas and oceans. And anyway, even if you include Zindia, it still wouldn't be as large as half the Great Kingdom dominated (at its height) areas of the Flanaess. Essentially everything east of the Lortmils, south-west of the Griffs and south of the Yatils, was once occupied by Great Kingdom forces. That's a much larger land-mass than even Zindia and the Suel Imperium combined.
#14 Aeolius Nov 09, 2003 12:05:42	Originally posted by Delglath And if you're including the seas around the Sea of Dust, just because the Suel pantheon has sea gods, then the same applies to the Flanaess, which only makes it a much greater disparity since the Flanaess has a much bigger coastal area, meaning it touches on more seas and oceans. And thus the next GH hardback should be entirely devoted to the Oceans of Oerth. :D
#15 zombiegleemax Nov 09, 2003 13:59:52	I meant only that there is no source to say that the empire of zindia was not part of the suel imperium, and im not granting them the seas, simply port cities, the idea that a culture with no access to ports would have multiple sea related gods is just silly.
#16 zombiegleemax Nov 09, 2003 21:24:09	Originally posted by Greyhack I meant only that there is no source to say that the empire of zindia was not part of the suel imperium, and im not granting them the seas, simply port cities, the idea that a culture with no access to ports would have multiple sea related gods is just silly. On the first point, that there is no source to say that Zindia wasn't a part of the Suel Imperium, the obvious counter to that is that there is no source to say that it was, which makes the point entirely moot. However, I think there are stronger, more suggestive, arguments to say that the Suel Imperium was bordered on three sides by mountains. On the second point, I don't disagree but I also don't quite understand the point of pointing it out. Yes... the Suel Imperium had sea ports... umm... so what? The coast along the Solnor has almost triple the area and most likely that many more ports. Anyway, the Suel were just ignorant, arrogant white-folk. They could hardly compare to the beauty, ferocity, and sheer brilliance of the Aerdi :D
#17 Argon Nov 09, 2003 23:56:59	I think Greyhack's point is that it would make sense if Zindia was under Suel rule. Because of the numerous Suel ocean gods. I can buy that one, I can also buy the idea that at one time the Oeridians had conquered more territory than their former Suel masters. Overall both the Baklunish and Suel empire were grand indeed. Yet when they fell the Oeridians found little resistance to their rule. I think this was as much a fault of the Suel people as it was great planning by the Oeridians whom were ready when it was their time to shine. Ok now let's get off the Oeridian vs. Suel size debate and back to your favorite GH race and why? I would like to make this thread newbie friendly as well. Maybe after a while their skin will thicken a little and they will realize that their is no reason to be afraid of posting in here at all.