I know only about him what is in the adnd RL campaign setting (that is realy minimal), what is in the novel of the Knight of the Black Rose, and what is in the 5thAge Saga materials.
I heard that there are TWO official version of that villain. A DL and a RL version. What is the truth? What did happened with Soth after the WoL? Where were he during the Chaos War?
I have not read yet the 3eDL, so i know nothing that what have happened on Ansalon since 31SC.
thanx, Arkozd
The difference on 'versions' of Soth is that officially, Soth went to Ravenloft and mucked around being a Darklord, and then came back. Tracy Hickman maintains that since Soth is one of 'his' villains, and that Ravenloft was also originally one of his creations (neither has orcs - I don't think he likes them), that Soth never went there. Or something. Unless you're playing around the time of the War of the Lance, and want to include him, it's not really an issue, and even then, it's up to the DM about what he did.
What sort of information were you after specifically? I think in Knight of the Black Rose it goes over his past quite a bit, since not everyone who picks upa Ravenloft book will have a clue who Soth is.
Really dead. He was killed by Takhisis during the War of Souls.
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Lord Soth was the one who could have stopped the first Cataclysm, but instead he chose to ignore the prophecy and was cursed to be a death knight, and to listen to the banshees of the people killed during it (or something to that effect).
Originally, Soth was suppose to have been drug to Ravenloft after killing Kitiara, and spent most of his time there fighting off Straud and looking for Kit. Tracy aparently thought twice about this, and said "nope, he just stayed at home the entire time after the WotL." I personally prefer the Ravenloft thing myself. I think Tracy's decision has to do with the fact he's not really popular on setting crossing. ANYHOW.
Here's the big spoiler. In the War of Souls series, he shows up again when Tak wants him to lead an army of the dead. Soth finally redeems himself by denying her and just becoming completely tired of all the fighting and stuff. Tak makes him mortal then drops Dargaard Keep on top of his ehad. What a way to go.
Dead????
NOOOOO!!!!!
So, i need such like information. But not that bad news
What had done Soth since the Chaos War until he died? And why killed him Taki? And what with his land?
I want to tell stories in 31SC. Maybe i will use the war of souls later, but it is not so important yet. (is it exist in adventure form?) I love the world of Ansalon without gods. Maybe i dont want to bring back Taki, (or Mina?). (while i like that what happened with the elves and also everything that happened on Krynn, except the returning of the gods. maybe i will give them a last chance in my campaign, but the main evil wont be Taki. It is boring.)
When he lived and returned? And while he was on a misty vacation why didnt the solamniacs get back their ancestral territories? I think they had enough time. (or the dark-knights could use the land around dargaard keep, or even Skie could concvere it.)
Arkozd
It's okay...the War of Souls doesn't take place until 38 SC, so you've got plenty of years there to still play with Soth.
As for what he's been doing officially...ever heard the song, "Soth, the Potted Plant"?
Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
Tak makes him mortal then drops Dargaard Keep on top of his head.
:OMG! Poor little Soth.
But i like the story. He coused the Cataclysm. Than he suffered for centuries, but he hadnt learned from his pre-mistakes. Than he suffered 10 times more on RL.
It WAS a good lesson for him. He knew maybe that one more mistake could couse even more suffering, maybe he knew that only a god could destroy him. He JUST suffers now in the Abbys. Only for eternety. Whit his own castle on his head. What a lucky guy.
1 minute silence for his dark soul.
Arkozd
Originally posted by Arkozd
He coused the Cataclysm.
Not really. The Kingpriest of Istar caused the Cataclysm. Soth could've prevented it, but he didn't.
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From the sound of your worry about the gods in Krynn, you seem mostly concerned with Takhisis being the 'high villain' and greatest evil. Well, worry no longer! At the end of the War of Souls, Takhisis met her own end, and is no dead as a doorknob. And keeping the balance, Paladine is now mortal. So now neither Takhisis nor Paladine head their respective groups, giving some time for other gods to shine.
And yeah. Poor Soth. But ultimately, I'd imagine he wanted to die, since a large part of the curse of being undead is being not totally dead. And if he's in the Abyss, it's sure as hell not Takhisis punishing him, hehe. Who knows? Maybe the other gods of evil will have mercy on him, since they weren't terribly fond of Takhisis at the end, either...
Originally posted by pddisc
Way to do a spoiler. Well done.
Well, _Dragons of a Vanished Moon_ has been out for nearly a year and a half now--it's pretty much passed the spoiler limit.
Matthew L. Martin
Originally posted by pddisc
The difference on 'versions' of Soth is that officially, Soth went to Ravenloft and mucked around being a Darklord, and then came back. Tracy Hickman maintains that since Soth is one of 'his' villains, and that Ravenloft was also originally one of his creations (neither has orcs - I don't think he likes them), that Soth never went there.
To clarify, Ravenloft as a campaign setting isn't really Tracy's 'creation'. He laid the foundations in the two _Ravenloft_ modules for 1E, but most of the setting material is the work of Bruce Nesmith, Andria Hayday, and other hands. Tracy's contributions come down to two locations, a handful of key NPCs, and the general tone, themes, and mood of the setting, They're important, yes, and we probably wouldn't have Ravenloft without him--definitely not as we know it--but to call it his creation is not unlike calling Gary Gygax the creator of DL.
Matthew L. Martin
But I know many others don't like spoilers. And what kind of way is it to welcome those that are new to Dragonlance (there are new folks every day), by spoiling novels far in the future (for them)? We just can't assume that everyone is up to date. Especially with 130+ novels out there.
Just playing Sargonnas' Advocate.
EDIT: And so it's not taken the wrong way, I say 'once again' merely because I've brought this up in another thread or two. I realized belatedly that I shouldn't be expecting anyone to have the same thread in mind. Sorry about that.
in hungarian... that could be great.Nonetheless i will read it in english as well.
Is there any modul about the war of the souls?
And about Soth. Who live in his land nowadays? (i mean 31sc...) And why, and how. Has he got warlords? Has he got a minimal diplomatic connection with his neighbours? How do he feels about the dragonlords? will he support them? or the darkknights? If he have just returned, maybe he wont support anybody.
And maybe there was a minion of him who ruled his land while he was 'out of house'.
Arkozd
Originally posted by Arkozd
Thank you all the infos, i will read as many books as i can, but you know i live in Hungary, and hungarian is my mother tongue, and there are not too much translated books. There are a few translations in every season, but i think that not the most important ones. The compyright could be too high for hungarian presses. War of Souls
Ouch man... I feel your pain..
Nonetheless i will read it in english as well.
Is there any modul about the war of the souls?
Sorta. There's the Key of Destiny campaign, but that takes place 6 months after the war of souls. no official adventures set during the whole mess yet.
And about Soth. Who live in his land nowadays? (i mean 31sc...) And why, and how. Has he got warlords? Has he got a minimal diplomatic connection with his neighbours? How do he feels about the dragonlords? will he support them? or the darkknights? If he have just returned, maybe he wont support anybody.
And maybe there was a minion of him who ruled his land while he was 'out of house'.
Arkozd
Soth generally keeps to himself. There was one time when he rose up and commanded an army of the undead, but i forget when it happened. Since then, Soth has just kept in Dargaard Keep, listening to the banshees and plotting how to die. When he went off to Ravenloft, Dargaard Keep became even more undead-infested, so bad that no one would go anywhere near the thing, and no one "ruled" in his place. In fact, Soth doesn't even rule anything. He really doesn't have land of his own, just the bare surrounding of his prison. So, basically, Soth hates everyone. except tasslehoff apparently.
Originally posted by The Udjat
But I know many others don't like spoilers. And what kind of way is it to welcome those that are new to Dragonlance (there are new folks every day), by spoiling novels far in the future (for them)? We just can't assume that everyone is up to date. Especially with 130+ novels out there.
People are continually spoiling me on Dragonlance novels I haven't read, precisely because there are so many. However, the assumption is that with over a year and a half of publication, the War of Souls is now something we should be free to discuss and debate. It would probably not be wise to visit Dragonlance fora if one didn't want to learn things one didn't already know.
Cheers,
Cam
Sorry about asking info that is well known by everybody expect me, but how could i guess wich unknown info of mine is like that.
Sorry about not buying yet the d20 things, but i have a good reason. And it is Saga. But first, please, everybody! DONT send reply to that topic, if you just want to tell me that saga is sucks, and d20 is uberalles.
So after years of FR gaming i decided to change the system of my campaign. I was looking for a different system, that is less combat-oriented. I found Saga. When i get deeper understanding of that product, i realized, that DL is the best world i ever seen. Never played on Krynn befor! I have read Knight of the Black Rose and the basic Cronicle trilogy, but nothing else. So i decided to collect all the saga materials.
I havent finished it yet, because of financial problems, im a student, etc, but i want to buy the d20 materials as well, later. so what is well known for 3e players is not necesserry known for 2e or saga players. In my country it can be bought only 2 weeks ago.
Maybe there should be a NEWBIES topic, that gamers can skip it if they are not interested in the problems of begginers, if they dont want to read evident info.
ON
Anyway, what created the undeads on the terrytory of soth? The land itself? Or the evil gods? (They couldn!t, because after the summer of Chaos the land was improved for decades.) Soth? He didnt care of it i think, if he was just going to die. (Paladin should help him i think.)
Arkozd
Originally posted by Arkozd
Anyway, what created the undeads on the terrytory of soth? The land itself? Or the evil gods? (They couldn!t, because after the summer of Chaos the land was improved for decades.) Soth? He didnt care of it i think, if he was just going to die. (Paladin should help him i think.)
Arkozd
The undead was created via the corruption of Dargaard Keep and Soth's presence period. He's such an evil well that things kept popping up, even when he didn't want them to. Part of his torment.
During the 5th age, Soth was apparently left entirely alone - the banshees had gone, the skeletal warriors had gone, although I don't know if this would also include the random undead around Nightlund. Because of this, he did nothing but think solidly, and came to the conclusion that Takhisis was evil. In a bad way. Hence the collapse of the castle around him. If you were planning to use him in some way during the 5th age, he wouldn't have been a big part of anything. But then, if you're thinking of not having the War of Souls, and I'll admit I've not read any of what the 5th age game things say, it could be entirely different.
Originally posted by pddisc
...if you're thinking of not having the War of Souls...
I'm having it, but maybe i will let Takhisis to win. As i mentioned i like the world without gods, but with only Taki... It could be very hard.
Arkozd
Originally posted by Matthew L. Martin
Well, _Dragons of a Vanished Moon_ has been out for nearly a year and a half now--it's pretty much passed the spoiler limit.
Matthew L. Martin
Well, Empire Strikes Back has been out for 30 years or so and I'm still not going spoiled the surprise ending for my future kids or any New Generation folks who haven't seen it.
Originally posted by Arkozd
ON
Anyway, what created the undeads on the terrytory of soth? The land itself? Or the evil gods? (They couldn!t, because after the summer of Chaos the land was improved for decades.) Soth? He didnt care of it i think, if he was just going to die. (Paladin should help him i think.)
Arkozd
Here's an indirect answer.
After Soth first became a death knight (beginning of the Fourth Age), a pall of darkness or gloom surrounded his castle, Dargaard Keep. This was a perfect environment for undead.
After the Chaos War ended (beginning of the Fifth Age), the pall/gloom surrounding Dargaard Keep expanded to include the entire province in which Dargaard Keep was located, the province of Nightlund. So, much larger area of gloom leads to much larger breeding ground for undead beasties.
Originally posted by iltharanos
Here's an indirect answer.
After Soth first became a death knight (beginning of the Fourth Age), a pall of darkness or gloom surrounded his castle, Dargaard Keep. This was a perfect environment for undead.
After the Chaos War ended (beginning of the Fifth Age), the pall/gloom surrounding Dargaard Keep expanded to include the entire province in which Dargaard Keep was located, the province of Nightlund. So, much larger area of gloom leads to much larger breeding ground for undead beasties.
Im going to write a supplement (in hungarian;) ) with the following ideas:
There is a shadow-world, that i call the Smoke-lands, that is exist around Krynn. It is a void-like place of negative energie. It has lots of native inhabitants, but they have little connection with the reality. (something like Wraith: the Oblivion)
I think there is three levels of that Smoke-land:
*The Smoke itself, the always changing irrationalist nightmare-like time-less place, that encompass the few inner places:
*The Shadow-villages, that are inhabbited by ghosts, or other incorporeal undeads. These are IN the Smoke.
*And there are the Projection-places, These are on the border of the Smoke, these are close to the real world, and these places are the twisted mirrors of the ansalonian pair.
(near-umbra/deep-umbra, or read the Shadow-plane in the d20 material)
After the Cataclysm the land of Soth came closer to that fog-land, and that is why the land that surrounds the Dargaard Keep has lots of undeads there. The gauntlet weakend. And that was the first and for long time the only one shadow-villages, that i call Newmoon. (it is a metropolis, like in Wraith, and a realy evil place.)
After the Chaos War, several new projection-places took place, and new shadow-villages was formed by the thousands of souls trapped between Ansalon and Haven(hell). They formed alliances, and a new sociaty of incorporeal undeads was born. That society was contacted by Takhisis to help her. It lasted until the War of Souls. I concentrate for that four decades.
Newmoon was an evil city, but in the AoM souls with good alignment apeared in the smoke. There is at least an entire kender nation. There are hundreds of qualinesti and silvanesti elves. And lots of dragon-souls. The stronger become the rulers. The weak ones are just raw-materials for the stronger evils. And the struggle goes on there as well.
I havent read WoS jet, so i dont know what is the official version with the souls in the early AoM, but i dont care.
Arkozd