So, Mr. Gygax has said that the ToEE appendix was a typo (imagine that, a typo. Never!). Fragarach should have been written as LG to match the Prince's alignment. But, some people have disagreed on this issue, suggesting other elements concerning the sword.
CHECK THIS OUT. You'll find a very interesting thread about thisexact issue. Thrommel himself get's into the discussion.
Read THIS too. This is not a weapon taken lightly.
Good luck.
Fragarach should have been written as LG to match the Prince's alignment.
and thus be a different alignment then its creator... (the Celtic god Lugh)
I've officially retconned the sword as lawful good, which was obviously the original intent.
Sometimes a mistake is just a mistake. ;)
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dungeon Magazine
Originally posted by Erik Mona
I've officially retconned the sword as lawful good, which was obviously the original intent.
Whoooooooooooooooohoooo!
If only this WERE the final word. But at least it's more ammo for the argument that the damn thing was meant to be LG all along. This is one of those Greyhawk debates that really irks me when it comes up. I know the arguments, but they're all just hypotheticals invented by diseased, over-heated brains!
Btw, the Answerer is also a rather nice sword that you can find in the Baldur's Gate CRPG expansion 'Throne of Bhaal'. IIRC, in that game, it's a +5 sword that whenever it hits, reduces the opponents AC by 2. Using 2nd ed mechanics, that's a pretty nasty benefit. There are other, better swords, but I kept it so that whenever I went up against a high AC monster, I'd whip it out, use Whirlwind Attack (10 attacks in a round, not like the 3rd ed version), and by the end of the whirlwind, the creature was much easier to hit for everyone
Whereas Fragarach should be a Chaotic weapon decended or celtic myth, I would easily accept it a a lawful weapon when serving the prince. A prearranged agreement to disagree if you will, but the common goal of ferreting out evil.
In any case Erik I'm glad to see your pushing more Greyhawk. Consider my subscriptions renewed!!
Originally posted by Gnarley_Woodsman
I believe that in several discussions with Mr. Gygax that the "mistake" was not the sword Fragarach, but in Prince Thrommel's title. He (Mr. Gygax) had originally intended the prince to be a Chaotic Good character. The title of "Paladin Lord" was just that.....a title.
Gygax is, unfortunately, about the most unreliable source of information since he changes his answers on everything constantly.
He is quoted as having said in an interview in one of the Oerth Journals that it was a typo and that Fragarach was LG. He is also quoted as having said that Thrommel was a 'paladin lord' and that it was only a title, by the Troika lead programmer of Temple of Elemental Evil.
Given Thrommel's nature and temperement and upbringing, it is highly unlikely that he would be CG.
The argument that Fragarach should be CG based on the fact that the word is drawn from Celtic myth, is a little silly. After all, drow are drawn from Norse myth, but they're hardly the same, are they? Elves are drawn from Celtic myth as well, but are they even remotely similar in custom and belief? What about gnomes and dwarves and goblins? Trolls?
He obviously got inspiration for the sword from the myth, but that means very little when it comes to the actual item as written in a fantasy setting. It is a LG sword meant for a LG person. Geez, I really do wish this was the Final Word.
Erik, I look forward to getting this month's Dungeon in my mailbox even more than usual. I thank you for including anything Greyhawk, and would love to see more and more.
Gygax is, unfortunately, about the most unreliable source of information since he changes his answers on everything constantly.
I noticed. Still, to each thier own. I prefer the LG version of the sword and Prince Thrommel being a true paladin. It's the way I have always envisioned the character anyway. So I agree with you sentiment.
In any case there are other options to allow for the other interpretation aswell. Pointing those out allows Dragon Mage to come to his own conclusion.
Cheers!
I thank you for including anything Greyhawk, and would love to see more and more.
>>>
Done and done.
--Erik
You may be interested by the deductions of Tzelios:
http://www.canonfire.com/htmlnew/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=338
--Erik Mona
I believe the typo excuse, and therefore the sword is in fact LG[1] in alignment, however, in my own campaign I have ruled that the sword is one of the legendary blades described in Unearthed Arcana (the original tome) and not in fact, the definitive Fragarach (which is lost and in no one's known possession).
Thrommel's blade is one of the nine(!) unique "Fragarach" or Final Word Swords, forged by the Oeridians prior to the great migrations when they inhabited the great plains of Central Oerik. These weapons were given to nine great warriors to aid the tribes against any who would assail them as they slowly migrated against fierce opposition into the Unknown East.
One of each alignment, by tradition all blades are called "Fragarach" in the ancient oeridian tongue and each was patterned after the legendary original blade[2] though of lesser power. Some legends dubiously hold that these nine blades are in fact shards of the original sword which was sundered in time immemorial. Each blade has a unique common name that helps identify its nuanced final word status, as follows: Answerer (LG), Backtalker (LN), Concluder (LE), Lastquip (NG), Rebutter (TN), Replier (NE), Retorter (CG), Scather (CN) and Squelcher (CE). Some say these blades are secretly intelligent, but this has never been proven. By legend these weapons become increasingly more powerful, the more committed the bearer is to the ethos of the blade, so they are greatly desired by champions of a particular alignment.
Thrommel's blade is Answerer, the LG Sword of Legend.
[1] For the truly canonically obsessed, you can rule that the sword is CG (therefore "Retorter") and that yes, Thrommel, a LG paladin happens to own a blade that gives him no bonuses, but is so precious an Oeridian heirloom, he could not abandon it. Add salt and weave your own tale as to why that is true, I have my own theories of course....
[2] The original Fragarach may or may not be, one of the 12 Pillars of Heaven. Legendary blades of such power, they are the objects of life-long quests. Successful Greybeards may appreciate that reference, extra points for identifying it.
A note from the archive of:
Pluffet Smedger,
LGG Co-Author
Majordomo of Greytalk and Canonfire
19th lvl Greybeard / 10th lvl Mona Crony (prestige class)
In our games, the weapon was forged by preists and smiths of Heironeous with a touch of the LG diety's divine essence. The weapon is Lawgul Good, crafted by like-aligned supplicants. Celtic gods? There are no Celtic gods in our GH setting - it's Oerth...
The Answerer aided the Oeridians as they swept across the Flanaess, subduing enemies and establishing peace in the far north-eastern region of the continent.
Fragarach passed out of history when Thrommel, a once true and rightful paladin, was broken and corrputed by the Scarlet Brotherhood and the fell powers that they relinguished the defeated prince to.
Now the weapon that helped shape and identify the Flanaess' greatest nation is lost. And its former master languishes in darkness under the most damnable of curses.
Mr. Gygax did not compose the synopsis in this. I did!