I wonder: According to the book, Eladrins must go to their home plane Arborea and stay there 1001 years if unveiled on the Material Plane. But according to this book, no eladrin can get much older than that age, if they can reach it at all?
What is the take on celestial ages in the 3e? The Warriors of Heaven claim that immortality is beholden to the aasimon and archon races, none of the others.
Modrons for example. After a certain period of time modrons, especially the lower casts which have more mechanical parts, will wear out, rust and what have you. And, with age, the chance that they go rogue becomes higher as well. Too wide a variety of experiences will do that to the little critters.
'cept for the dice, of course. That throws the Epic Level Spanner into Mechanus.
Outsiders that act like biological organisms may or may not age, depending.
Remember, outsiders are composed of souls. Souls generally don't age.
Basically I think that most things that deserve outsider hit dice deserve immortality. There are many things on the planes that are just humanoids, vermin, animals, magical beasts, or whatever. WotC got a little outsider-type happy. They should have only given that type to creatures that are quintessentially planar.
Originally posted by Sildatorak
Bariaur are monsterous humanoids, despite what the BoED says. I may have nothing official to back me up on this other than a hunch, but that is how it should be.
you have the manual of the planes, if Wizards starts to contradict they own books it is their trouble.
However, look at the adventure Bastion of Broken Souls. There you have lillends guarding a titan in a demiplane in Carceri(I think, don`t remember exactly), presumably having lived there with him for ages.
In the BoED it is hinted towards, by reading the descriptions of Celestial Paragon Guardinals, that guardinals do not live forever, as the Companions are constantly changing.
Another source, I think Warriors of Heaven, states that the Hydra of Legend was brought to Belierin in a time before Talisid was even a cub, and the previous leader of the Companions is now long gone.
This accessory is on of my favorite ones, though there are a lot of questionable statistics in it.
Perhaps the book was, in its entirety, yugoloth propaganda. That makes a lot of sense, actually. Like Guide to Hell was baatezu propaganda.
Personally, it gives me a nice warm feeling to pretend it didn't exist. I really loved the fact that I hadn't seen anyone mention it or tried to cite it for anything since 3e came out.
Then someone, who I can only assume is also a yugoloth agent of some sort, had to tear open old wounds.
Masters of torment, those yugoloths are. They love to make others suffer.
Warriors of Heaven is an unholy abortion of a book. There is no need to try to reconcile any of its paradoxes. There is only one need: to dispose of it as quickly as possible before its evil corrupts you further. Do not hesitate: your very soul is at stake.
To answer your question, what is perhaps the best evidence that outsiders aren't mortal in 3e comes, ironically, from the Book of Vile Darkness, page 64, which defined "mortal" as creatures not of the outsider, fey, undead, or construct types. If those types aren't mortal, it would seem they are all unaging.
In the BoED it is hinted towards, by reading the descriptions of Celestial Paragon Guardinals, that guardinals do not live forever, as the Companions are constantly changing.
It also says that Talisid has been leader of the guardinals for so long few can even remember his predecessor, so obviously they can live for ages and ages. Nothing in the Book of Exalted Deeds indicates that this isn't the case.
The roster of the Five Companions changes because Elysium is the Hero's Rest, the plane of well-earned repose. After serving for a time they are permitted to retire for other pursuits, like the petitioners themselves. This doesn't mean they die.
Guardinals do seem to sexually reproduce, but so do yugoloths and they're explicitly unaging.
Lillendi have the ability to choose their deaths (the Silent Hour, noted in Planes of Chaos), but there's no indication that they age up to that point; they just ultimately tire of existence and willingly merge with Selune or Soma.
Asuras I can see as ultimately burning out, given their lifestyles and the fact that their form is a punishment. They could have life cycles like that described on this page.
Bariaurs I have no strong feelings about. I can see them either as immortal celestials (albeit minor ones) or as monstrous planar humanoids.
Eladrins and guardinals advance from form to form like all true planeborne. They do not die in the castes they're born in like formians or citizens of Plato's Republic. Do not believe the yugoloth lies, no matter how sweet they may sound.
Perhaps arcanaloths ARE behind this? Hmmm...
Anyway, whether dead guardinals or even eladrins are advanced into higher forms when they die or not is not that important to me. I do not agree in this, though
If they do advance, they probably forget the main parts of their past as a lesser race anyway.
The aging, however, is more interesting. I hope an official ruling will come for 3e about outsiders and aging and immortality. Perhaps even in this next book on the Abyss, but guess that is too much to ask.
That is enough for now. I hope this is little is ok with the arcs..
It was
Anyway, whether dead guardinals or even eladrins are advanced into higher forms when they die or not is not that important to me. I do not agree in this, though.
Death isn't a requirement, any more than it is for slaadi, archons, yugoloths, rilmani, or tanar'ri.
It's simply about exploring new forms in order to learn more about the alignment they embody.
All the planeborne do this. It's how we can tell them apart from other planar creatures, like bariaurs, varrangoin, buseni, or formians. This evolution of form is what defines them.
The yugoloths wish you to think that chaotic and neutral good have no embodiments. They want you to think that good is weak, and its greatest exemplars have not gained the insights they have through their centuries of evolution, through their many shapes and faces.
This is clearly nonsense. Good is not weak or stupid as Warriors of Heaven, in its malice and spite, implies. The eladrins and guardinals are not blind to the advantages that all fiends as well as modrons, archons, and slaadi gain through this process. The gaping hole in the cosmology that Warriors of Heaven tried to bore is only illusory; this illusion can be seen through by ignoring every letter in that accursed tome, which was the real Book of Vile Darkness.
Neither eladrins nor guardinals are rigidly bound to an unbreakable caste system. They change, they evolve: as their spirits learn and grow, so do their bodies. Not in any particular order, but as they will.