1.1. The setting obviously needs not only the MM-like book, but the DMG-like as well, at least for the magic items’ list and rules, and the cosmological issues.
1.2. Will there be any formal conversion rules?
2. Races
2.1. Interpreting the core rulebooks literally, the use of the table in the DMG, p. 173, instead of plain negative modifiers to ability scores is mandatory for every PC race except half-orcs.
2.2. The statement that “Halflings tend towards law and evil” is at least disputable. The halflings of the original setting were extremely good.
2.3. The “d0” in the “pterran maximum age” entry of the “Vital Statistics” table, p. 13, is, no doubt, a brand new type of dice.
2.4. The “venerable” entries of the same table for aarakocra, pterran, and thri-kreen, are asterisked with no footnote for.
3. Classes
3.1. “Templars are almost never good”. Are the templars of Oronis too?
3.2. Can the wizard be illiterate? Can the templar be? How do illiterate clerics and/or druids cast the “Read Magic” spell (PHB, p. 269) and/or other inscription spells?
4. Spells
4.1. There is a note on p. 44 that the listed spells are “added to the general cleric spell list in the PHB”, but no such note for other spellcaster classes’ lists.
4.2. Some spells, stricken out from the cleric spell list, are available to druids and/or wizards as well. Are they stricken out too?
4.3. How does the “Slave Scent” spell work on the Tyrian citizens?
4.4. Does the “Charm Person” spell (PHB, p. 209) affect the non-humanoid PC races? What for the “Dominate Person” spell (PHB, p. 224)?
4.5. The “Detect Evil” spell (PHB, p. 219) has special rules for the “cleric of an evil deity” aura power. Does any character in Dark Sun 3 campaign setting radiate an aura of equivalent power?
4.6. Are the planar connection spells affected with the Gray, as in the original setting? Are the other plane using spells affected? Are the spells using the extradimensional spaces affected too?
5. Powers
5.1. See 4.4.
5.2. See 4.6.
No doubt, there are more mistakes, inconsistencies, and contradictions. Nevertheless, the work is great. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen!
Originally posted by monastyrski
1. General
1.1. The setting obviously needs not only the MM-like book, but the DMG-like as well, at least for the magic items’ list and rules, and the cosmological issues.
All I can say is - patience is most definitely a virtue. The MM information is (to my knowledge) still being worked on, the core rules were objective #1, and now are finished.
1.2. Will there be any formal conversion rules?
You never got the free little pamphlet that WotC had released to explain how to convert a 2nd Ed. AD&D character to 3rd Ed D&D? That pamphlet + DS3 is all you need... Unless you mean something other than converting 2nd Ed characters to 3rd Ed, and then I refer to my previous response.
2. Races
2.1. Interpreting the core rulebooks literally, the use of the table in the DMG, p. 173, instead of plain negative modifiers to ability scores is mandatory for every PC race except half-orcs.
Say what? To my knowledge, there's already a rather heated arguement once again in the mailing lists because people have the nerve to try to change the attribute bonuses on the DS3 races after the fact, rather than coming in about a year or two ago, when they were being worked on. It's too late now, and in all honesty, they did a superb job developing them.
2.2. The statement that “Halflings tend towards law and evil” is at least disputable. The halflings of the original setting were extremely good.
Actually, they were treated as evil - the position is based on the fact that good & evil are more often set by the societies around the world, and Halflings treat all other races as a food source, and don't usually even acknowledge their sentience. A race of canibal feral creatures generally is not a good thing for any society.
2.3. The “d0” in the “pterran maximum age” entry of the “Vital Statistics” table, p. 13, is, no doubt, a brand new type of dice.
Looks like errata to me.
2.4. The “venerable” entries of the same table for aarakocra, pterran, and thri-kreen, are asterisked with no footnote for.
More errata.
3. Classes
3.1. “Templars are almost never good”. Are the templars of Oronis too?
There are, that's why the sentance is "Templars are almost never good" rather than "Templars are never good".
3.2. Can the wizard be illiterate? Can the templar be? How do illiterate clerics and/or druids cast the “Read Magic” spell (PHB, p. 269) and/or other inscription spells?
a) Yes.
b) Yes.
c) Because to read magic, they don't necessarily have to "read" - spells can have more symbology and diagram-like descriptions than worded text.
In my games, unless the character has at least one level of Aristocrat, they tend to be illiterate.
4. Spells
4.1. There is a note on p. 44 that the listed spells are “added to the general cleric spell list in the PHB”, but no such note for other spellcaster classes’ lists.
Even more errata.
4.2. Some spells, stricken out from the cleric spell list, are available to druids and/or wizards as well. Are they stricken out too?
Possibly, the ones I've seen in the cleric list are stricken out and replaced by an elemental-version of them. Then again, I haven't looked too hard.
4.3. How does the “Slave Scent” spell work on the Tyrian citizens?
As there is no spellcasting Templars for Tyr, nor is there any SK of that city, I'd say it doesn't work (unless the Tyrian is an escaped slave from elsewhere, like Urik). Technocally, there are no slaves in Tyr, so there would be no "slave scent" from Tyrians.
4.4. Does the “Charm Person” spell (PHB, p. 209) affect the non-humanoid PC races? What for the “Dominate Person” spell (PHB, p. 224)?
a) No.
b) No.
4.5. The “Detect Evil” spell (PHB, p. 219) has special rules for the “cleric of an evil deity” aura power. Does any character in Dark Sun 3 campaign setting radiate an aura of equivalent power?
I'd say that Templars of Dragon Monarchs would fit that classification.
4.6. Are the planar connection spells affected with the Gray, as in the original setting? Are the other plane using spells affected? Are the spells using the extradimensional spaces affected too?
a) I believe so.
b) It's your discression which ones are altered, I'd say.
c) Same with this question.
5. Powers
5.1. See 4.4.
5.2. See 4.6.
a) See 4.4
b) See 4.6
No doubt, there are more mistakes, inconsistencies, and contradictions. Nevertheless, the work is great. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen!
I'm sure there's more errata - everyone makes mistakes, and the DS3 team's no exception. And I know from experience that they tend to appreciate any input in that area.
Actually, they were treated as evil - the position is based on the fact that good & evil are more often set by the societies around the world, and Halflings treat all other races as a food source, and don't usually even acknowledge their sentience. A race of canibal feral creatures generally is not a good thing for any society
Not to stray, but this is a fine case in point where a racial personality description and cultural description should take extreme precedence over a generic alignment type. Halflings, when viewed in their interaction with other races are indeed quite evil. When viewed in their interaction between eachother, they are most certainly good aligned. In any situation where alignment and personality descriptions contradict, use your better judgement to arbitrate between the two, letting the racial description superceed the alignment descriptions.
You never got the free little pamphlet that WotC had released to explain how to convert a 2nd Ed. AD&D character to 3rd Ed D&D? That pamphlet + DS3 is all you need... Unless you mean something other than converting 2nd Ed characters to 3rd Ed, and then I refer to my previous response.
Yes, I did, but the proposed conversion of multiclassed spellcasters is unsatisfactory. E.g., 2e templar 15 / defiler 15 is obviously stronger than 2e templar 20 or 2e defiler 20. The abovementioned "Conversion Manual", p. 3, tells to divide 15+15/3=20 levels among classes any way I see fit. I see no such way. Do you?
The conversion of characters with strong wild talents is a problem too. Compare original Thaxos Vodron in 2e "Dune Trader", p. 32, with the converted one in "Tyrian Conspiracy", p. 38. This conversion was very creative, and I am unable to convert Tomak Reslin ("Dune Trader", p. 9) in such a way.
Moreover, the conversion of just any high-level NPC needs a lot of creative work. A possible solution of this problem is listing them once and forever, as the authors of 3e "Forgotten Realms" did, but it seems unlikely that DS3 team plan to make such a work.
Therefore, it would be great to have formal and simple conversion rules.
Say what? To my knowledge, there's already a rather heated arguement once again in the mailing lists because people have the nerve to try to change the attribute bonuses on the DS3 races after the fact, rather than coming in about a year or two ago, when they were being worked on. It's too late now, and in all honesty, they did a superb job developing them.
The work was superb, but it is never too late to insert a paragraph such as "the negative modifiers to ability scores are applied not by plain subtraction, but as written in the DMG, p. 172-173". A character created with the rule "Int=3 if adjusted below 3, other ability score=1 if adjusted below 1" looks like an abomination to everybody familiar with the theory of probability.
Because to read magic, they don't necessarily have to "read" - spells can have more symbology and diagram-like descriptions than worded text.
Great, it works well with the "Arcane Mark" (PHB, p. 201), "Explosive Runes" (PHB, p. 228), "Glyph of Warding" (PHB, p. 236), "Mark of Justice" (PHB, p. 252), and "Symbols" (PHB, p. 289-291) spells. Maybe the "Secret Page" (PHB, p. 275) and "Sepia Snake Sigil" (PHB, p. 276) spells can be casted by a wizard unable to read the text being altered. Nevertheless, the "Illusory Script" spell (PHB, p. 243) presupposes the actual mundane writing by the casting wizard.
Possibly, the ones I've seen in the cleric list are stricken out and replaced by an elemental-version of them. Then again, I haven't looked too hard.
"Water Breathing" (PHB, p. 300) was replaced by "Breathing".
"Control Water" (PHB, p. 214) was replaced by "Control Tides".
Both pairs are also available to wizards and druids.
"Flame Strike" (PHB, p. 231) was replaced by "Elemental Strike".
"Fire Storm" (PHB, p. 231) was replaced by "Elemental Storm".
Both pairs are also available to druids.
You may say, I'm a rules lawyer. But I'm not the only one!
Originally posted by monastyrski
1. General
1.1. The setting obviously needs not only the MM-like book, but the DMG-like as well, at least for the magic items’ list and rules, and the cosmological issues.
Already in progress.
Though, I'd actually advise you to expect the DMG-ish chunks to come out ... in a more peicemeal fashion ... one short bit on cosmology, another on PrCs, ... rather than hold the whole thing up until everything is polished. We had to do that for the core "PHB" rules ... we don't necessarily have to do that for the rest of it.
1.2. Will there be any formal conversion rules?
Unlikely, beyond the rules for converting published by Wizards. Yes, I know, the translation for multi/dual classed characters is lacking. They were inordinately powerful in the old edition ... they're kept in line with this one. Does that mean they're going to lose something in the translation? Yep. It's a different game system; most of the similarities are simply cosmetic. Sometimes, things do get lost in the translation.
Do multiclassed spellcasters suck? Indeed they do. See Mystic Theruge in the 3.5 DMG for WotC's "solution" to this.
2.1. Interpreting the core rulebooks literally, the use of the table in the DMG, p. 173, instead of plain negative modifiers to ability scores is mandatory for every PC race except half-orcs.
IDHMBIFOM. However, there is a difference between strict literal interpretation that complecaties things incredibly (as that table does) and keeping things reasonably usable ... this is the very reason that Half-Orcs are done as they are.
2.2. The statement that “Halflings tend towards law and evil” is at least disputable. The halflings of the original setting were extremely good.
Good to each other. However, they regard other sentient races as a food source. That's not terribly "good", now is it?
This traces back to moral relativism. D&D alignments are from a viewpoint ... other than that of any particular race. Basically, our morality is what sets the alignments, not some particular race's morality.
2.3. The “d0” in the “pterran maximum age” entry of the “Vital Statistics” table, p. 13, is, no doubt, a brand new type of dice.
errata
2.4. The “venerable” entries of the same table for aarakocra, pterran, and thri-kreen, are asterisked with no footnote for.
Ah. Basically, saying that they suffer not age effects until they reach venerable age.
3.1. “Templars are almost never good”. Are the templars of Oronis too?
Not necessarily. But they can be. Almost never is the operative phrase here.
3.2. Can the wizard be illiterate? Can the templar be? How do illiterate clerics and/or druids cast the “Read Magic” spell (PHB, p. 269) and/or other inscription spells?
Yes. Because the ability to read wins you precisely nothing where reading magical spells is concerned. Even if you're literate, you still need to cast read magic to understand any new spells.
For other specific spells more closely associated with the ability to read ... use some judgement. If the spellcaster is illiterate, than illusory script is going to be of minimal use.
4.1. There is a note on p. 44 that the listed spells are “added to the general cleric spell list in the PHB”, but no such note for other spellcaster classes’ lists.
They are all in addition to the PHB spells
4.2. Some spells, stricken out from the cleric spell list, are available to druids and/or wizards as well. Are they stricken out too?
Hrm. Those spells that are struck out are replaced with an "elemental" spells. I'll bounce off the spells bureau for a final on this.
4.3. How does the “Slave Scent” spell work on the Tyrian citizens?
All Tyrians post PP1 are Freemen. Hence, they'd show up as Freemen.
4.4. Does the “Charm Person” spell (PHB, p. 209) affect the non-humanoid PC races? What for the “Dominate Person” spell (PHB, p. 224)?
Charm Person affects Humanioids. Those races who have a type other than Humanoid are immune to the spell. (Specifically: Aarakocra, Thri-kreen and Half-Giants. Check the target field. If it says Humanoid, than it only affects creatures of a Humanoid type. Standard 3e mechanic.
4.5. The “Detect Evil” spell (PHB, p. 219) has special rules for the “cleric of an evil deity” aura power. Does any character in Dark Sun 3 campaign setting radiate an aura of equivalent power?
Templars would. Clerics wouldn't, because the elements aren't evil.
4.6. Are the planar connection spells affected with the Gray, as in the original setting? Are the other plane using spells affected? Are the spells using the extradimensional spaces affected too?
Extradimensional spaces ... no. Some of the other spells? Perhaps. Use judement. A MotP cosmology should be done at some point, which will probably help with some of this ...
Originally posted by flip
Hrm. Those spells that are struck out are replaced with an "elemental" spells. I'll bounce off the spells bureau for a final on this.
Please also tell them to remove Earthquake and similar spells from the generic cleric spell list. See also my last posts here:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1759932#post1759932