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Multiple Suns?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zombiegleemax
Nov 15, 2003 15:45:57 The sci-fi/fanstasy aspect would be enhanced if Athas had multiple suns shining down on its bleak desert surface. There are several options;

Close orbits; Two Suns orbit close to each other.
Effects on Athas: Two Suns in instead of one. As the orbit, their position towards Athas changes. In order for the Suns not to look like one, they have to be just far enough apart to look like two suns, but not interfer with Athas' orbit. So about every 60 to 120 days, the suns cycle from two times they are two suns in the skys and two short periods where there looks to be only one. In times when there is only one sun, the sky will get dimmer as the other star blocks out the other sun's light.

Far Orbits; Two Suns orbit far apart, perhaps beyond Pluto's orbit.
Effect on Athas; More daylight. Sometimes, even 24 hours of daylight. The seasons on Athas would change. Instead of the axial tilt, the season would depend on where Athas was according to the two suns. The seasons;
Hot/Hot Summer; When Athas is between those two stars, it has 24 hour daylight. It is always hot. It would never cool off.
Searing/Warm Summer; When Athas is parallel to the two stars, there are 18 hour days with only a 6 hour night. With the light of two Suns, the days are brighter and warmer.
Searing/Cool Summer; Both stars are close in the sky to Athas. There is a close to 12 hour night, though, they days are very hot, but at night, the world would cool.
Searing/Warm Summer; the night time gets shorter and shorter and the days dim a bit as the two sun move in relation towards Athas.
The seasons would come later and later in the year. For the far off sun is orbiting too. The Sun's orbit cycle would be in centuries.

I would change the color of the suns so you get the same effect as in Pitch Black.

Another side effect of multiple stars is more meteorites and comets. Every Athasian should have witnessed a rain of meteorites in the sky or a meteor that struck the ground near him. Every night, there should be many comets in the sky. That is due to tidal stresses the two suns would create and prevent planets from forming.
#2
zombiegleemax
Nov 16, 2003 4:06:06 Not to be a stickler for too much realism, but in any case where you have multiple suns, the orbits would have to be so extreme that the secondary sun would appear as an extremely bright star in the sky, perhaps visable during the day time as well. Otherwise, you run into gravitational issues, issues with radiation, thermal winds, solar mass extranges between close orbiting stars, etc. Even placing the second sun at the equivalent distance of Pluto doesn't help much. Twice that distance and the model works though. Sorry, but Pitch Black couldn't happen even though it was a fair movie (not bad, but not great, but that's a topic for another board).

That is due to tidal stresses the two suns would create and prevent planets from forming

Quite valid. Yet if the suns are close enough to effect the inner orbital paths of eachother, they're also close enough to begin to exchange matter in the form of a spiraling arm of plasmic gasses. Hurling a little planet though that arm can have . . . nasty effects on the populace (like instant incineration and such).
#3
zombiegleemax
Nov 17, 2003 14:23:32 Realism is definitely a hinderance. There are a lot of things in Dark Sun that do not make sense, like the Sun going from Blue to Yellow to Red. If Athas was that close to a Blue sun, its light would liquefy the surface to molten lava or Athas would have to be so far away, the surface would freeze when it turn yellow. To turn a blue star into a yellow star, requires a lot of mass subtraction. The brown tide was killed with at least 5 masses of our own sun, just a small fraction of 1 stellar mass would be able to melt Athas.

Also, its multiple moons would eventually have coalesced into one moon or none if it was push into or out of orbit when they eventually all collided with each other rather shortly after they were created.

I say, if dark sun is a fantasy world, you really have to go all the way. I mean, there is magic and psionics!
#4
zombiegleemax
Nov 17, 2003 18:56:14
There are a lot of things in Dark Sun that do not make sense, like the Sun going from Blue to Yellow to Red

Heh, another realism falacy: even if it were a blue sun, it would likely still look yellow to the people on Athas since the defining factor for the sun's coloration is the atmosphere of the planet and not the catagorical assignment of the sun in question. Besides, even a sun catagorized as blue is not really blue but bright, bright yellow.

No other fantasy setting to date has forced me to suspend my sense of realism more than Athas has. At times, I just want to sit down with Troy and the other designers and scream "What the heck are you talking about! It doesn't make any sense!"

But maybe that's just me . . .
#5
zombiegleemax
Nov 26, 2003 6:57:55 How come you both know so much about sun, stars, and these statistics about sun's proximity and etc.???

I'm really curious, where did you gather these info??
I like astronomy a lot...
#6
zombiegleemax
Nov 26, 2003 10:06:36 Independant research. Become a net junkie and search for any astronomy term you can think of. Spend more than you can afford on college astronomy textbooks and dive right in without any higher end math knowledge. Buy subscriptions to way too many astronomy magazines.

Of course, there's always astronomy/physics in college, but who wants to take the easy way out
#7
Kamelion
Nov 26, 2003 13:21:30 Not really on topic, so smack me with a wet z'tal, but...

I made the odd discovery the other day that one of my long-term DS players had misinterpreted an early Brom picture and has for the past 9 or 10 years been convinced that Athas actually has two suns.

He would make these wierd references from time to time and I just put it down to general gamer strangeness, but eventually it got to the point where you couldn't ignore it any more. So I asked him what was going on.

"Well, how many moons do you know that are that size?"he replied. "I figured it just had to be an extra sun or something..."

Kudos to Baron Wingnut, if you ever deign to stop this way
#8
zombiegleemax
Nov 26, 2003 15:03:57
Originally posted by Kamelion

"Well, how many moons do you know that are that size?"he replied. "I figured it just had to be an extra sun or something..."

Kudos to Baron Wingnut, if you ever deign to stop this way

Oh my GOD!.... he he hehe
#9
zombiegleemax
Nov 26, 2003 15:35:30 My interests in astronomy started when I was eleven and moved to a part of the city where I could actually see some stars at night. From then on, every now and then, I would read a book about the planets or whatch a PBS special. By the time I took college level astronomy courses, I already knew all of the material covered. I took two astronomy classes in community college, I got an A & an A++ (110%). I did the extra credit because I enjoyed doing the extra credit. When you like the subject, studying for it becomes fun!

Which Brom picture was that?

A blue (O or B class) sun would shine with the same color light as the halogen lamps in a gymnasium. The light is not as white as the sun (orange through White stars shine white light). I don't think the halflings had prisims, so the light would have to be blueshifted enough to shine blue.

Yeah, Dark Sun is a stretch from reality. If you thought D&D was weird with elves and fairies, Dark Sun has talking bugs and lizards!
#10
zombiegleemax
Nov 26, 2003 17:24:57 For many years I and my old gaming group tried to, just for fun and mental exercise, come up with scientifically logical explanations for the changes brougt upon Athas through such events as the multiple uses of the Pristine Tower, theories on the brown tide, etc. So far (and I'm the only non college grad out of the group but still have 4 years worth of college under my belt), we've always come up empty. None of us could come up with a working atmospheric composition that would have enabled the sun to appear blue in the First Age and still sustain plausible life, or how it could swell and turn red in the latest age without either cooling off so much that Athas freezes, pulling the planet into closer orbit (which creates uncountable poblems), etc. We even masked our efforts as a proposed literary project to entice some groups of respected astronomers into assisting with a little of the brain pool, but still nothing. Chalk it up to Troy Denning's derranged imagination and simply run with it.
#11
zombiegleemax
Nov 26, 2003 23:51:02 Then perhaps science is not the answer. Could the information be faulty, i.e., there was no blue or yellow, but red. However, if the sun is a red main sequence star, in order to get Athas would be so close that is would be tidally locked to the star. One side would always be facing the star. If the sun is a red giant, Athas would have to be in Saturn's orbit. If it were in Earth's or Mar's orbit, the surface will be molten (to much heat). However, it is most likely that there is a lot of dust in the atmosphere. Dust from other seas of silt are constantly up in the upper atmosphere. It is possible that in the blue age, there was little dust, hence, the blue age. Then in the green age, the there was more dust, making the sky less blue, hence the green age. It may be that what happened with the Pristine Tower in the past as a metaphore.
#12
zombiegleemax
Nov 27, 2003 1:02:38 You could just treat it like my parents treated questions I always asked them where they didnt want to get into (such as how does that tap just float there and pour out water? whats holding it up?). Their response: It's Magic
of course that would require fabricating a whole elaborate crazy world based on magic with odd creatures like dragons and dwarves and elementals and....hey wait a minute that sounds familiar!

Course the other option to consider is this. The rules of astrophysics that govern the sun, stars gravity, relativity etc etc are arbitrarily in place by the hand of the creator (make of that what you will). Water could just as easily have been made to be bromine and nitrogen instead of hydrogen and water just as the radiation from the sun that hits the earth could be the same at twice the distance. So in a fantasy world....you assume the sciences are the same (so as to save yourself the trouble of creating a new periodic table, newtonian laws, biochemical behaviour and such) except where it doesnt fit something nifty you want to fit in like having two suns. I mean how many science fiction movies break scientific laws left right and center and ppl just swallow it whole.

Anyways have fun twisting reality
#13
zombiegleemax
Nov 27, 2003 1:08:02
I mean how many science fiction movies break scientific laws left right and center and ppl just swallow it whole.

Actually, although I do sit and enjoy a good number of traditional science fiction and fantasy novels and movies, its the 'hard science' ones that I tend to like most. Those that use consistancy with at least theorized scientific standards and see what they can come up with. Its rather like an artist with only half his paints still comming up with a Mona Lisa (since you handicap the author by disallowing the entirely impossible or improbable). Still don't know why I like Dark Sun though. Heh, just my own inconsistancies I guess.
#14
Kamelion
Nov 27, 2003 2:11:58
Which Brom picture was that?

Not sure - didn't ask (although the one of the belgoi looking down over the caravan is a good bet...)
#15
zombiegleemax
Nov 27, 2003 9:07:46
Originally posted by Mach2.5
[b]Actually, although I do sit and enjoy a good number of traditional science fiction and fantasy novels and movies, its the 'hard science' ones that I tend to like most. Those that use consistancy with at least theorized scientific standards and see what they can come up with.

I hear you there. I think thats why I really like Michael Crichton novels. That guy knows his stuff and youd have to have a few degrees to read through most of his books and go hang on that couldnt work out quite like that.....
As to why I like Dark Sun? SO many reasons but there was something about removing a lot of dungeons and dragons ;instead you have ruins and The Dragon....a little more interesting in my opinion...I mean at least theres a good explanation for why adventurers are crawling through "undiscovered" caverns and finding treasure.
#16
zombiegleemax
Nov 27, 2003 16:09:24
Originally posted by Mach2.5
For many years I and my old gaming group tried to, just for fun and mental exercise, come up with scientifically logical explanations for the changes brougt upon Athas through such events as the multiple uses of the Pristine Tower, theories on the brown tide, etc. So far (and I'm the only non college grad out of the group but still have 4 years worth of college under my belt), we've always come up empty. None of us could come up with a working atmospheric composition that would have enabled the sun to appear blue in the First Age and still sustain plausible life, or how it could swell and turn red in the latest age without either cooling off so much that Athas freezes, pulling the planet into closer orbit (which creates uncountable poblems), etc. We even masked our efforts as a proposed literary project to entice some groups of respected astronomers into assisting with a little of the brain pool, but still nothing. Chalk it up to Troy Denning's derranged imagination and simply run with it.

Hmm, what about the following: the Athasian sun changed it's color because due to the effect of the Pristine Tower the planet of Athas got closer to it? So not the sun changed, just the frequency of the radiation the atmosphere lets through mostly moved closer to the red end of the visible light. And by the way as I know there was no information about the change of the visible size of the sun. It could seen bigger today than in the past due to the closer orbit.
#17
glacialis
Dec 01, 2003 10:21:04 I was an astrophysics major before the college money ran out :D. Too bad I missed this thread until now! Bah. What other people have said far better than I can at this early-in-the-morning moment, I shan't repeat. Looks kosher here...
#18
avatardso
Dec 01, 2003 10:48:33 OK I have a thought... Perhaps the atmosphere was ALOT different during the blue age then it is now. The sun could have appeared blue through the atmosphere becouse something in the atmosphere might have changed it.

As far sa why it would have changed well... the world was covered with water and now its not... most of that water could have been changed to the gas state and expanded the atmosphere of the planet or more...

Like for example our sky looks blue but in truth its green... Yes it is green. But to our eyes and who the atmosphere changes its colors slightly it looks blue as we look out INTO space.

Just my thoughts on it. So perhaps the sun its self didnt change at all... perhaps it only LOOKS like the sun has changed due to a closer orbit and the atmosphere changing its chemical gas make up.

Avatar
#19
avatardso
Dec 01, 2003 10:52:09 On a continued thoguht... I am starting to think my idea is on track becosue the Ozone layer as well would have had to become more dence OR thicker to compensate for the proximity of the sun.

So yes I believe the sun its self was not changed... I do think that the sun helped dry up the oceans and changed the atmospheric gas make up i nthe process which could be changing the suns appearence to a more accurate one.

Thoughts?
#20
nytcrawlr
Dec 01, 2003 14:41:43
Originally posted by AvatarDSO
On a continued thoguht... I am starting to think my idea is on track becosue the Ozone layer as well would have had to become more dence OR thicker to compensate for the proximity of the sun.

So yes I believe the sun its self was not changed... I do think that the sun helped dry up the oceans and changed the atmospheric gas make up i nthe process which could be changing the suns appearence to a more accurate one.

Thoughts?

I like this idea, though not sure how scientific sound it is though.

"I live like I type, fast and full of mistakes."

Isn't that the truth! hehe
#21
avatardso
Dec 02, 2003 17:36:24 It actually makes more sence though then the other ideas or the suggested thoughts of the materials in the book describing its change.

As far as my SINGATURE comment.. yea thats why I put it there...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Nov 15, 2003 15:45:57	The sci-fi/fanstasy aspect would be enhanced if Athas had multiple suns shining down on its bleak desert surface. There are several options; Close orbits; Two Suns orbit close to each other. Effects on Athas: Two Suns in instead of one. As the orbit, their position towards Athas changes. In order for the Suns not to look like one, they have to be just far enough apart to look like two suns, but not interfer with Athas' orbit. So about every 60 to 120 days, the suns cycle from two times they are two suns in the skys and two short periods where there looks to be only one. In times when there is only one sun, the sky will get dimmer as the other star blocks out the other sun's light. Far Orbits; Two Suns orbit far apart, perhaps beyond Pluto's orbit. Effect on Athas; More daylight. Sometimes, even 24 hours of daylight. The seasons on Athas would change. Instead of the axial tilt, the season would depend on where Athas was according to the two suns. The seasons; Hot/Hot Summer; When Athas is between those two stars, it has 24 hour daylight. It is always hot. It would never cool off. Searing/Warm Summer; When Athas is parallel to the two stars, there are 18 hour days with only a 6 hour night. With the light of two Suns, the days are brighter and warmer. Searing/Cool Summer; Both stars are close in the sky to Athas. There is a close to 12 hour night, though, they days are very hot, but at night, the world would cool. Searing/Warm Summer; the night time gets shorter and shorter and the days dim a bit as the two sun move in relation towards Athas. The seasons would come later and later in the year. For the far off sun is orbiting too. The Sun's orbit cycle would be in centuries. I would change the color of the suns so you get the same effect as in Pitch Black. Another side effect of multiple stars is more meteorites and comets. Every Athasian should have witnessed a rain of meteorites in the sky or a meteor that struck the ground near him. Every night, there should be many comets in the sky. That is due to tidal stresses the two suns would create and prevent planets from forming.
#2 zombiegleemax Nov 16, 2003 4:06:06	Not to be a stickler for too much realism, but in any case where you have multiple suns, the orbits would have to be so extreme that the secondary sun would appear as an extremely bright star in the sky, perhaps visable during the day time as well. Otherwise, you run into gravitational issues, issues with radiation, thermal winds, solar mass extranges between close orbiting stars, etc. Even placing the second sun at the equivalent distance of Pluto doesn't help much. Twice that distance and the model works though. Sorry, but Pitch Black couldn't happen even though it was a fair movie (not bad, but not great, but that's a topic for another board). That is due to tidal stresses the two suns would create and prevent planets from forming Quite valid. Yet if the suns are close enough to effect the inner orbital paths of eachother, they're also close enough to begin to exchange matter in the form of a spiraling arm of plasmic gasses. Hurling a little planet though that arm can have . . . nasty effects on the populace (like instant incineration and such).
#3 zombiegleemax Nov 17, 2003 14:23:32	Realism is definitely a hinderance. There are a lot of things in Dark Sun that do not make sense, like the Sun going from Blue to Yellow to Red. If Athas was that close to a Blue sun, its light would liquefy the surface to molten lava or Athas would have to be so far away, the surface would freeze when it turn yellow. To turn a blue star into a yellow star, requires a lot of mass subtraction. The brown tide was killed with at least 5 masses of our own sun, just a small fraction of 1 stellar mass would be able to melt Athas. Also, its multiple moons would eventually have coalesced into one moon or none if it was push into or out of orbit when they eventually all collided with each other rather shortly after they were created. I say, if dark sun is a fantasy world, you really have to go all the way. I mean, there is magic and psionics!
#4 zombiegleemax Nov 17, 2003 18:56:14	There are a lot of things in Dark Sun that do not make sense, like the Sun going from Blue to Yellow to Red Heh, another realism falacy: even if it were a blue sun, it would likely still look yellow to the people on Athas since the defining factor for the sun's coloration is the atmosphere of the planet and not the catagorical assignment of the sun in question. Besides, even a sun catagorized as blue is not really blue but bright, bright yellow. No other fantasy setting to date has forced me to suspend my sense of realism more than Athas has. At times, I just want to sit down with Troy and the other designers and scream "What the heck are you talking about! It doesn't make any sense!" But maybe that's just me . . .
#5 zombiegleemax Nov 26, 2003 6:57:55	How come you both know so much about sun, stars, and these statistics about sun's proximity and etc.??? I'm really curious, where did you gather these info?? I like astronomy a lot...
#6 zombiegleemax Nov 26, 2003 10:06:36	Independant research. Become a net junkie and search for any astronomy term you can think of. Spend more than you can afford on college astronomy textbooks and dive right in without any higher end math knowledge. Buy subscriptions to way too many astronomy magazines. Of course, there's always astronomy/physics in college, but who wants to take the easy way out
#7 Kamelion Nov 26, 2003 13:21:30	Not really on topic, so smack me with a wet z'tal, but... I made the odd discovery the other day that one of my long-term DS players had misinterpreted an early Brom picture and has for the past 9 or 10 years been convinced that Athas actually has two suns. He would make these wierd references from time to time and I just put it down to general gamer strangeness, but eventually it got to the point where you couldn't ignore it any more. So I asked him what was going on. "Well, how many moons do you know that are that size?"he replied. "I figured it just had to be an extra sun or something..." Kudos to Baron Wingnut, if you ever deign to stop this way
#8 zombiegleemax Nov 26, 2003 15:03:57	Originally posted by Kamelion "Well, how many moons do you know that are that size?"he replied. "I figured it just had to be an extra sun or something..." Kudos to Baron Wingnut, if you ever deign to stop this way Oh my GOD!.... he he hehe
#9 zombiegleemax Nov 26, 2003 15:35:30	My interests in astronomy started when I was eleven and moved to a part of the city where I could actually see some stars at night. From then on, every now and then, I would read a book about the planets or whatch a PBS special. By the time I took college level astronomy courses, I already knew all of the material covered. I took two astronomy classes in community college, I got an A & an A++ (110%). I did the extra credit because I enjoyed doing the extra credit. When you like the subject, studying for it becomes fun! Which Brom picture was that? A blue (O or B class) sun would shine with the same color light as the halogen lamps in a gymnasium. The light is not as white as the sun (orange through White stars shine white light). I don't think the halflings had prisims, so the light would have to be blueshifted enough to shine blue. Yeah, Dark Sun is a stretch from reality. If you thought D&D was weird with elves and fairies, Dark Sun has talking bugs and lizards!
#10 zombiegleemax Nov 26, 2003 17:24:57	For many years I and my old gaming group tried to, just for fun and mental exercise, come up with scientifically logical explanations for the changes brougt upon Athas through such events as the multiple uses of the Pristine Tower, theories on the brown tide, etc. So far (and I'm the only non college grad out of the group but still have 4 years worth of college under my belt), we've always come up empty. None of us could come up with a working atmospheric composition that would have enabled the sun to appear blue in the First Age and still sustain plausible life, or how it could swell and turn red in the latest age without either cooling off so much that Athas freezes, pulling the planet into closer orbit (which creates uncountable poblems), etc. We even masked our efforts as a proposed literary project to entice some groups of respected astronomers into assisting with a little of the brain pool, but still nothing. Chalk it up to Troy Denning's derranged imagination and simply run with it.
#11 zombiegleemax Nov 26, 2003 23:51:02	Then perhaps science is not the answer. Could the information be faulty, i.e., there was no blue or yellow, but red. However, if the sun is a red main sequence star, in order to get Athas would be so close that is would be tidally locked to the star. One side would always be facing the star. If the sun is a red giant, Athas would have to be in Saturn's orbit. If it were in Earth's or Mar's orbit, the surface will be molten (to much heat). However, it is most likely that there is a lot of dust in the atmosphere. Dust from other seas of silt are constantly up in the upper atmosphere. It is possible that in the blue age, there was little dust, hence, the blue age. Then in the green age, the there was more dust, making the sky less blue, hence the green age. It may be that what happened with the Pristine Tower in the past as a metaphore.
#12 zombiegleemax Nov 27, 2003 1:02:38	You could just treat it like my parents treated questions I always asked them where they didnt want to get into (such as how does that tap just float there and pour out water? whats holding it up?). Their response: It's Magic of course that would require fabricating a whole elaborate crazy world based on magic with odd creatures like dragons and dwarves and elementals and....hey wait a minute that sounds familiar! Course the other option to consider is this. The rules of astrophysics that govern the sun, stars gravity, relativity etc etc are arbitrarily in place by the hand of the creator (make of that what you will). Water could just as easily have been made to be bromine and nitrogen instead of hydrogen and water just as the radiation from the sun that hits the earth could be the same at twice the distance. So in a fantasy world....you assume the sciences are the same (so as to save yourself the trouble of creating a new periodic table, newtonian laws, biochemical behaviour and such) except where it doesnt fit something nifty you want to fit in like having two suns. I mean how many science fiction movies break scientific laws left right and center and ppl just swallow it whole. Anyways have fun twisting reality
#13 zombiegleemax Nov 27, 2003 1:08:02	I mean how many science fiction movies break scientific laws left right and center and ppl just swallow it whole. Actually, although I do sit and enjoy a good number of traditional science fiction and fantasy novels and movies, its the 'hard science' ones that I tend to like most. Those that use consistancy with at least theorized scientific standards and see what they can come up with. Its rather like an artist with only half his paints still comming up with a Mona Lisa (since you handicap the author by disallowing the entirely impossible or improbable). Still don't know why I like Dark Sun though. Heh, just my own inconsistancies I guess.
#14 Kamelion Nov 27, 2003 2:11:58	Which Brom picture was that? Not sure - didn't ask (although the one of the belgoi looking down over the caravan is a good bet...)
#15 zombiegleemax Nov 27, 2003 9:07:46	Originally posted by Mach2.5 [b]Actually, although I do sit and enjoy a good number of traditional science fiction and fantasy novels and movies, its the 'hard science' ones that I tend to like most. Those that use consistancy with at least theorized scientific standards and see what they can come up with. I hear you there. I think thats why I really like Michael Crichton novels. That guy knows his stuff and youd have to have a few degrees to read through most of his books and go hang on that couldnt work out quite like that..... As to why I like Dark Sun? SO many reasons but there was something about removing a lot of dungeons and dragons ;instead you have ruins and The Dragon....a little more interesting in my opinion...I mean at least theres a good explanation for why adventurers are crawling through "undiscovered" caverns and finding treasure.
#16 zombiegleemax Nov 27, 2003 16:09:24	Originally posted by Mach2.5 For many years I and my old gaming group tried to, just for fun and mental exercise, come up with scientifically logical explanations for the changes brougt upon Athas through such events as the multiple uses of the Pristine Tower, theories on the brown tide, etc. So far (and I'm the only non college grad out of the group but still have 4 years worth of college under my belt), we've always come up empty. None of us could come up with a working atmospheric composition that would have enabled the sun to appear blue in the First Age and still sustain plausible life, or how it could swell and turn red in the latest age without either cooling off so much that Athas freezes, pulling the planet into closer orbit (which creates uncountable poblems), etc. We even masked our efforts as a proposed literary project to entice some groups of respected astronomers into assisting with a little of the brain pool, but still nothing. Chalk it up to Troy Denning's derranged imagination and simply run with it. Hmm, what about the following: the Athasian sun changed it's color because due to the effect of the Pristine Tower the planet of Athas got closer to it? So not the sun changed, just the frequency of the radiation the atmosphere lets through mostly moved closer to the red end of the visible light. And by the way as I know there was no information about the change of the visible size of the sun. It could seen bigger today than in the past due to the closer orbit.
#17 glacialis Dec 01, 2003 10:21:04	I was an astrophysics major before the college money ran out :D. Too bad I missed this thread until now! Bah. What other people have said far better than I can at this early-in-the-morning moment, I shan't repeat. Looks kosher here...
#18 avatardso Dec 01, 2003 10:48:33	OK I have a thought... Perhaps the atmosphere was ALOT different during the blue age then it is now. The sun could have appeared blue through the atmosphere becouse something in the atmosphere might have changed it. As far sa why it would have changed well... the world was covered with water and now its not... most of that water could have been changed to the gas state and expanded the atmosphere of the planet or more... Like for example our sky looks blue but in truth its green... Yes it is green. But to our eyes and who the atmosphere changes its colors slightly it looks blue as we look out INTO space. Just my thoughts on it. So perhaps the sun its self didnt change at all... perhaps it only LOOKS like the sun has changed due to a closer orbit and the atmosphere changing its chemical gas make up. Avatar
#19 avatardso Dec 01, 2003 10:52:09	On a continued thoguht... I am starting to think my idea is on track becosue the Ozone layer as well would have had to become more dence OR thicker to compensate for the proximity of the sun. So yes I believe the sun its self was not changed... I do think that the sun helped dry up the oceans and changed the atmospheric gas make up i nthe process which could be changing the suns appearence to a more accurate one. Thoughts?
#20 nytcrawlr Dec 01, 2003 14:41:43	Originally posted by AvatarDSO On a continued thoguht... I am starting to think my idea is on track becosue the Ozone layer as well would have had to become more dence OR thicker to compensate for the proximity of the sun. So yes I believe the sun its self was not changed... I do think that the sun helped dry up the oceans and changed the atmospheric gas make up i nthe process which could be changing the suns appearence to a more accurate one. Thoughts? I like this idea, though not sure how scientific sound it is though. "I live like I type, fast and full of mistakes." Isn't that the truth! hehe
#21 avatardso Dec 02, 2003 17:36:24	It actually makes more sence though then the other ideas or the suggested thoughts of the materials in the book describing its change. As far as my SINGATURE comment.. yea thats why I put it there...