My theory was that he got hurt around the jagged cliffs region and either the Halflings tehre used what is calleda JOINER which is a LifeShapped item to attach a replacement arm. Or he used a joiner that he had come accross in his travels and used it when he may have lost it in a battle or a accident.
Does ANYONE know for sure? If so can you please tell us how and tell us where you got your information from?
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Originally posted by AvatarDSO
OK I have a total of two theorys of how the Wonderer got a Lizard-like Left arm. FIrst of fI was told by someone that they thought he got it when he got a cut on his harm around the Ivory Tower. Now for those who dont know if you are in the area of the Ivory Tower and you get the slightest of cuts you actualy change and most of the time becomse a NPC.
Pristine Tower.
My theory was that he got hurt around the jagged cliffs region and either the Halflings tehre used what is calleda JOINER which is a LifeShapped item to attach a replacement arm. Or he used a joiner that he had come accross in his travels and used it when he may have lost it in a battle or a accident.
That's a possibility as well ... though timing is probably an issue. The Wanderer isn't said to have visited the Jagged Cliffs until very late in the tmeline ...
Regardless, nobody knows before because the Wanderer has never really shown up, outside of the WJ or the WC ... (and a couple other flavor-supplements) ... He's never been codified as a "real" NPC ... just a voice. ANd, for that matter, it's never been truly determined if the Wanderer is a single person, or several different travellers writing under the same name ...
They show him writing his chronicals in a few pictures in the Wonderers Cronical as well.
So that must be him. But the thing is that the one major thing thats been bugging is that no one realy knows how he got that arm. Is there anyone we can contact at the company about it to find out?
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wonderer
Wanderer.
Is there anyone we can contact at the company about it to find out?
Unlikely.
In the Tribe of One series, the wanderer is revealed to be the new king of the elves and grandfather of Sorak (the nomad). Sage aka the Wanderer is also trying to become a Avangion.
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Originally posted by GFORCE99
In the Tribe of One series, the wanderer is revealed to be the new king of the elves and grandfather of Sorak (the nomad). Sage aka the Wanderer is also trying to become a Avangion.
According to the wanderer's Chronicle on page 6 under "Who is the Wanderer" it is mentioned that he could be a human cleric of earth. Also to emphasise the tale on page 118-119 of the same book there's a picture of him casting what seem to be an earth spell against a naga-kin undead. That said:
Are you certain that the sage and the wanderer are the same person in the Tribe of one trilogy (It's been 10 years since I read the books myself so I dont remember it well so your probably more right than I am but just to be sure) and if so. How can a cleric of earth atempt the arduous avangion metamorphosis. (only preserver/psionisist can become avangion, no??) Lastly, Elves being what they are. Why would they accept a human to become their king??
As for the arm. Officialy nothing is known about its origin so your guess( Avatar) is as good as mine. I like to think it's a reminder of the luck the wanderer had when he defended himself from the wrath of a sorcerer king.( thanks to his protective spell only is arm was transformed... permenently)
Originally posted by GFORCE99
In the Tribe of One series, the wanderer is revealed to be the new king of the elves and grandfather of Sorak (the nomad). Sage aka the Wanderer is also trying to become a Avangion.
This is the same series that has Elves riding Kanks.
To say that it's somewhat misinformed about certain aspects of the setting would be generous.
As such, I would not take anything it says about somebody else's character to be cannonical.
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Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
In 2nd Ed, half-elves and humans were the only 2 which could become Dragons & Avangions, as the other races were either unable to be wizards, or couldn't achieve a high-enough level. In 3rd Edition, I'm sure it'll change. my rules for Avangions and Dragons states any Humanoid or Giant could attempt it, if they meet the requirements. Which means out of the "normal" starting races, only Thri-Kreen and Aarakocra cannot become dragons or avangions, primarily because it would have really complicated the method I've used for the development process.
Personaly, I dont see why even an AaraKocra could'nt atempt the transformation, assuming it has reach the prerequisites. I mean why does a Dragonking has to look like a lizard-kin dragon?? I can well imagine a Dragon-aarakocra with the apearance of half roc/dragon (with feathers and scales) but with all the powers of a true dragon (with no templar possible due to a lack of vortexes)
Even a Thri-kreen could become a huge/colossal flying-kreen aberation, using the same 10 spells, with different powers ,but as mighty as other dragons (due to its kreen heritage )
Simply said, I never understoud why only humans and half-"humans" could atempt the metemorphosis other then benefit the use of human characters from players. As long as you have the prerequisites, every race should be subject to do so. They may end up being different from a "human" stock but they would still become dragon-like and very powerfull.
-- think of the variety it could produce
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Originally posted by GFORCE99
Well wasn't there a reason that Rajaat chose humans for his champions?
He did try to teach magic to the Rhul-thaun(halflings) first but they just could'nt master it.(that's the real reason) So, he chose the humans for the cleansing wars ( it would've been very usefull to teach magic to all the races and then wage war against the non-human ones.) and I also suspect the 2nd ed rule (maximum class-level/race ) was a big part responsible for the human, half-elf's potantial to become Dragons.
Now with the 3rd ed. I dont see why other races could'nt atempt the transformation and I do think "it" more logical even if humans do have a bonus feat at first level ;) at Jon
I find that humorous. I guess the logic comes from being a genocidal madman...or madhalfling.
Originally posted by GFORCE99
Isn't it interesting that Rajaat picked humans because they were useful and had greater potential..yet he was trying to help the halflings "return to power" because he liked them more?
I find that humorous. I guess the logic comes from being a genocidal madman...or madhalfling.
I'd say usefull? yes. greater potential? no.
Compare the Rhulisti of old and the "moderned" athasian humans of today and the later are still primitive. (greatly due to the DKs influence ? That I agree with you entirely) the Rhul-thaun could'nt master the art of magic . Thats is a sad fact but in a way they use to master an art even greater than magic; life itself.
Rajaat had to "pic" a race that would help him achive his goal (to bring back the Blue age and the glory of the Rhulisti) so he chose the humans ( maybe becose human population was the greater-like in most, if not all, other world setting of the D&D game-)
Thru the eye of Rajaat, eager humans were probably the best race sutted to learn powerfull magic (why teach a slow learning race-- like the elves or dwarves--when you can do the same with a quick-eager learning race like the humans and thus achive your goal faster.--there came their usefulness)
Rajaat never saw humans has "greater potential" since he never intended to lend Athas to them. He saw their usefulness :D
Of course the genocidal act of defiling magic hitself, teached by Rajaat himself, would contradict the First Sorcerer's final goal.
but;
The end justify the means. We all know Rajaat had the mean to return Athas to the Blue age (as writen in one of the novel--I think it was the last-- during Rajaat's brief escape from the hollow.) and also that he never mentioned the existance of the Rhul-Thaun living in the Jagged Cliffs. sorry to say this to you but...
Humans were merely tools to Rajaat's stratagem.
Isn't it interesting that Rajaat picked humans because they were useful and had greater potential..yet he was trying to help the halflings "return to power" because he liked them more?
It is hinted and inferred that Rajaat himself did not take an active role in the Clensing Wars. He set the stage, then sat back and let the Champions go to work, human masters leading human armies. Should the Champions succeeded in the Clensing War, that would have left only the halfings and humans (and thri-kreen). Someone would have had to wipe out the humans after the other races were finished. It always seemed to me that Rajaat had intended that role for himself. Even though he was to return Athas to the halflings, had he used them instead of humans, their numbers would have been depleted from the thousands of years of warefare. Its not really insane, in fact, its quite logical to have your enemies fight amongst themselves until they're weak, then move in for the kill yourself. Rajaat wasn't so insane after all.
Originally posted by Mach2.5
It is hinted and inferred that Rajaat himself did not take an active role in the Clensing Wars. He set the stage, then sat back and let the Champions go to work, human masters leading human armies. Should the Champions succeeded in the Clensing War, that would have left only the halfings and humans (and thri-kreen). Someone would have had to wipe out the humans after the other races were finished. It always seemed to me that Rajaat had intended that role for himself. Even though he was to return Athas to the halflings, had he used them instead of humans, their numbers would have been depleted from the thousands of years of warefare. Its not really insane, in fact, its quite logical to have your enemies fight amongst themselves until they're weak, then move in for the kill yourself. Rajaat wasn't so insane after all.
So you agree with me! Humans were mere pawns to rajaat's stratagem.
Does this convince you Gforce99
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Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
Personaly, I dont see why even an AaraKocra could'nt atempt the transformation, assuming it has reach the prerequisites. I mean why does a Dragonking has to look like a lizard-kin dragon?? I can well imagine a Dragon-aarakocra with the apearance of half roc/dragon (with feathers and scales) but with all the powers of a true dragon (with no templar possible due to a lack of vortexes)
Even a Thri-kreen could become a huge/colossal flying-kreen aberation, using the same 10 spells, with different powers ,but as mighty as other dragons (due to its kreen heritage )
Simply said, I never understoud why only humans and half-"humans" could atempt the metemorphosis other then benefit the use of human characters from players. As long as you have the prerequisites, every race should be subject to do so. They may end up being different from a "human" stock but they would still become dragon-like and very powerfull.
-- think of the variety it could produce
From a rules standpoint, adding in the conversion rules for the two Monsterous Humanoid races to the mix would prove to be a pain in the royal butt. Thri-Kreen don't have skeletons (well, they have their chitin) and have 4 arms, among other things that make them substantially different from the other races that are "basically humanoid" in design. Aarakocra, while they have wings, are missing independant arms, which made for a major complication with the methods I was using to produce the "stages" of development for avangons and dragons.
Originally posted by GFORCE99
Well wasn't there a reason that Rajaat chose humans for his champions?
Yes, because he could manipulate humans better than other races, and didn't want his precious halflings to get involved in (corrupted by?) his wars. The former is a standard fantasy idea that humans are easier to tempt and persuade by dark powers than many other races, and provide a structure and organization that allows for a successful war. The latter is just Rajaat's personal prejudices.
Originally posted by GFORCE99
Isn't it interesting that Rajaat picked humans because they were useful and had greater potential..yet he was trying to help the halflings "return to power" because he liked them more?
I find that humorous. I guess the logic comes from being a genocidal madman...or madhalfling.
That's because he didn't want his war to affect/corrupt/disrupt the halflings in any way - that's why his champions were never steered into the direction of the halfling jungles, and were even warned (strongly) against going near them.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
From a rules standpoint, adding in the conversion rules for the two Monsterous Humanoid races to the mix would prove to be a pain in the royal butt. Thri-Kreen don't have skeletons (well, they have their chitin) and have 4 arms, among other things that make them substantially different from the other races that are "basically humanoid" in design. Aarakocra, while they have wings, are missing independant arms, which made for a major complication with the methods I was using to produce the "stages" of development for avangons and dragons.
Ok you have a point. My example of the Kreen and the Aarakocra were not apropriate but still, consider my last paragraph requote here;
Simply said, I never understoud why only humans and half-"humans" could atempt the metemorphosis other then benefit the use of human characters from players. As long as you have the prerequisites, every race should be subject to do so. They may end up being different from a "human" stock but they would still become dragon-like and very powerfull.
What do you think of it!!?
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Yes, because he could manipulate humans better than other races, and didn't want his precious halflings to get involved in (corrupted by?) his wars. The former is a standard fantasy idea that humans are easier to tempt and persuade by dark powers than many other races, and provide a structure and organization that allows for a successful war. The latter is just Rajaat's personal prejudices.
This time I have to object your theory when you mention;
...and didn't want his precious halflings to get involved in (corrupted by?) his wars....
because Rajaat did try to teach magic to the Rhul-thaun and I quote;(page 13 from the W's C) .....he could not( so we must assume he would have if he could) Halflings belonged to the old world , to a time before the birth of magic. No halfling could become sorcerers and few wanted anything to do with Rajaat's twisted dreams.
Other then that we have the same basic theory why rajaat chose humans.
And with dragons/avangions - the reason only humans & half-elves could advance to them always sucked to me. That's why I made a set of prestige classes and spells that permitted all except thri-kreen and aarakocra to become them, and it works fairly well. Of course as rare as it would be, a half-giant becoming a dragon would be substantially larger than a halfling becoming a dragon.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I made a slight adjustment (creative liscense, being a DM) to explain it within the confines of 3rd Ed. rules, as Halflings could now become wizards. But you're right.
When you say that in 3rd ed halflings can now become wizards, arent you refering to the ones living in the Tyr region.?? But then if so, how come they could learn magic but not their Rhul-thaun relatives??---assuming the rules in 3rd ed--- The seclude Rhul-thaun could not learn magic because there's no one to teach them; The only magic user knowned is a druid and (and priest but all the same) we both know where their power comes from.
To my logic(and the darksun campaing setting itself) no halflings could become wizard. (why change that, just because the new edition permit it!!?) It is beyond them and personnaly I like it this way. Further more lets go back to the Rebirth era. The Rhulisti new that to survive they had to change; not just physically but also how they "were". ( The halfling of the Forest ridge survived pretty well the green age so there had to be an other knowned reason why the Rhulisti decided to create the new races)
They new instictively( maybe due to their great understanding of life-buildingblock lore
that Athas would never be the same. Although they did'nt no how so and never imagined an art called magic possible, it was still part of what they could call the changes of Athas's "nature" ( what I'm supposing is that if Rajaat had been born during the Blue age no magic would ever have been discovered, it just did not exist. To put my example further maybe magic is now possible because of the "brown tide killed by the sun" being a new aspect(change) of Athas)Conclusion: Either the Rhulisti became the Rhul-thaun and tried to survive with what they alway new (life-shaping's way of life) or be part of the rebirth era and have the possibility to learn what ever the "new" Athas would reveal. But not both(refering to magic in this case)
And with dragons/avangions - the reason only humans & half-elves could advance to them always sucked to me. That's why I made a set of prestige classes and spells that permitted all except thri-kreen and aarakocra to become them, and it works fairly well. Of course as rare as it would be, a half-giant becoming a dragon would be substantially larger than a halfling becoming a dragon.
I'd hate to see a Half-giant dragon king with the H-G unique alignement behavior
unless being a dragon automaticaly transforme you utterly evil. then again.......what do you think??
This time I have to object your theory when you mention;
...and didn't want his precious halflings to get involved in (corrupted by?) his wars....
because Rajaat did try to teach magic to the Rhul-thaun and I quote;(page 13 from the W's C) .....he could not( so we must assume he would have if he could) Halflings belonged to the old world , to a time before the birth of magic. No halfling could become sorcerers and few wanted anything to do with Rajaat's twisted dreams.
i wouldn't count on the WC so much, after all, in the prism pentad (and in the first campaign setting) halfling could be illusionists.
don't forget that the WC were written by man (men?!) and that they could be misled.
guy
To my logic(and the darksun campaing setting itself) no halflings could become wizard. (why change that, just because the new edition permit it!!?)
Halflings to me always reminded me of south american tribal cultures. So, when introducing the idea to my players about halflings being wizards (which they at first scoffed at), I tried to paint a picture not of a halfling version of Gandolf, but of the shaman and witch docter style of wizard that seemed more appropriate for their culture. Such witch docters are a shunned part of general halfling society, feared and distrusted, yet respected as well. Halfling witch docters are given the unfounded and rumored stigma that they eat only other halflings to power their spells. In truth, such rumors are merely cultural taboos. Most halflings witch docters are multi-class wizard/druids and are master herbalists and nature based alchemists. Since it is taboo to talk about a witch docter, very few people of the Tablelands knew that halflings could become wizards and with the ingrained idea amongst the less informed halflings that a witch docter must eat his own kind, few halflings dared venture down the path to become a wizard.
Originally posted by SandChicken
i wouldn't count on the WC so much, after all, in the prism pentad (and in the first campaign setting) halfling could be illusionists.
don't forget that the WC were written by man (men?!) and that they could be misled.
guy
I would respond to that, that it's probably the other way around
The first box set is in error(probably because since the begining D&D halflings and gnomes were illusionist in nature ---magicaly speaking--- and that illusionist were not considered sorcerers properly speaking.In conclusion: both box set are official DS material so who is right ?? Both; one is god of his own DS setting as a DM.
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
Yes, because he could manipulate humans better than other races, and didn't want his precious halflings to get involved in (corrupted by?) his wars. The former is a standard fantasy idea that humans are easier to tempt and persuade by dark powers than many other races, and provide a structure and organization that allows for a successful war. The latter is just Rajaat's personal prejudices.
he had to protect his children. Hmmm gr8 concepts Avatar I may borrow your ideas with your permission
The wanderer is an elf. He is the grandfather of Sorak. It was mentioned in a Dragon artical just before 3.0 kicked in that Oronis (the first Avangion) and an elf apprentice was working on altering the magic to allow elves to become avangions also.
Okay- that explains him being an elf and an avangion. As for the arm... Oronis- the first Avangion was also once known as Keltis, the Slayer of Lizardfolk. I had imagined at one point, the slayer was cursed by a powerful lizardfolk cleric to become what he wished to destroy...lizardfolk. This curse gave him the clawed hand and a bit of a conscience.
This hand is now a curse and reminder to Oronis of his folly and gives him something to reach for. By attoning for his past sins perhaps the curse will be lifted.
Just a thought I have had to explain it from a decade ago.