When I was reading "The wind riders of the jagged cliffs" it mentions that the tohr-kreen nation has a seventh sub-race(?) of thri-kreen "tohr-kreen". They where called Priest of change or something. The upper hands look like hooked claws but actually branch out to form what appears like seven different fingers and it serets a enzyme that allows it to change the physiology of tohr-kreen to what ever it wishes almost.
This remindes me a bit about how the Ruhlisti can change things but they tend to make different things instead of changing themselves. But anyway...
Besides what is in the windriders of the jagged cliffs and what is in the thri-kreen of athas book is thre any quests or novels that also mention these creatures?
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They aren't dealt with in any depth in any published product other than TKOA ... When the 'Kreen invasion happens, they'll play a role ... until then, they're still the mysterious bugs behind the curtain ....
Thanks
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But that's just me, trying to add a bit more flavor to the world of Dark Sun...
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It tends to fit with the idea that the Jagged Cliffs were a defensive line formed by the Rhulisti in an attempt to keep the Life-Shapers away, plus the Rhul-Thaun are sort of the "guardians" of the cliffs, even if they don't exactly remember why they are guarding them, or what from. And they have to deal with Tohr-Kreen down below trying to get up the cliffs, if I recall. Been a while since I studied the DS material, and I'm currently working on my own game/campaign worlds. I don't want to get DS mixed up with my own personal projects, so I'm trying not to delve back into the DS material until I get a bit further with my current project.
its different.
By the way xlorepdarkhelm do you have a theory on who and what have become of the the Avangion and the great Thri-kreen that use to live in the Crimson savhana??
xlorepdarkhelm-- If I may, I might contact you in the future concerning your theory on the Zik-chil. ( as I'm wrighting a story about the Rhul-thaun race.)
Originally posted by Mach2.5
Sorry, hate to be a stickler, but it was the life shapers and nature benders, the latter being the 'evil' ones.
You're right!
Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
I realy like xlorepdarkhelm's theory on the Zik-chil ( by the way xlore... evil life-shapers were called life-benders) and you are also right about the Blue-age's kreen race. They were small numbers of primitive thri-kreen, whom the Rhulisti looked upon as beasts. _taken from W'sC buttom page 9_ (remember AvatarDSO that during the blue age water covered most of the world and very few land could allow the expantion of the Kreen race, thus evolve.)
Very true. I've also considered that it was the Zik-chil/nature benders (thans for the clarification on the name, I always mess it up) which altered the Thri-Kreen to survive in the warmer/more arid climates that appeared through the green age and the age of the sorcerer-kings. Of course it also made them far less capable to deal with more wet climates.
By the way xlorepdarkhelm do you have a theory on who and what have become of the the Avangion and the great Thri-kreen that use to live in the Crimson savhana??
I think the Avangon was Oronis. The reasoning behind this is that I think in both Dragon Kings & Preservers & Defilers, it talks about that the final stage of an Avangon's development results in them wandering through space-time after being placed in a crystaline case (or was it glass, I forget). The structure they needed built seemed to be some sort of beacon for them to find their way home, and if it was shattered, they'd be lost forever. I think the future Oronis, when he achieves this stage of metamorphosis goes back into the green age, possibly to learn what he can about what the environment was like (so he can duplicate it in his present), and ends up helping "free" the Thri-Kreen from the Tohr-Kreen. This also makes it so that the concept that Oronis is the first Avangon still is very much true. I think the ancient Thri-Kreen leader who was with him ended up growing old and dying - but the effect which Oronis had on them resulted in the strong racial memory that appears whenever a Thri-Kreen sees an Avangon. Of course, memory being what it is, still ends up getting muddled up, and many Kreen don't differenciate between Oronis (the Avangon) and the Thri-Kreen leader of the revolt.
xlorepdarkhelm-- If I may, I might contact you in the future concerning your theory on the Zik-chil. ( as I'm wrighting a story about the Rhul-thaun race.)
Sure, no problem. My e-mail is: [email]xlorepdarkhelm@hotmail.com[/email] (until I can get my mail server back up, my domain name back, and a static IP out of earthlink).
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...I never liked Spelljammer, and usually ignore anything related to it...
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
I think the Avangon was Oronis. The reasoning behind this is that I think in both Dragon Kings & Preservers & Defilers, it talks about that the final stage of an avangion's development results in them wandering through space-time while in a crystaline case (or was it glass, I forget). The structure they needed built seemed to be some sort of beacon for them to find their way home, and if it was shattered, they'd be lost forever. I think the future Oronis, when he achieves this stage of metamorphosis goes back into the green age, possibly to learn what he can about what the environment was like (so he can duplicate it in his present), and ends up helping "free" the Thri-Kreen from the Tohr-Kreen. This also makes it so that the concept that Oronis is the first Avangon still is very much true. I think the ancient Thri-Kreen leader who was with him ended up growing old and dying - but the effect which Oronis had on them resulted in the strong racial memory that appears whenever a Thri-Kreen sees an Avangon. Of course, memory being what it is, still ends up getting muddled up, and many Kreen don't differenciate between Oronis (the Avangon) and the Thri-Kreen leader of the revolt.
Your theory would be quite plausible but...
Sorry to pop your baloon friend but Oronis is only in his 4th stage of avangion ( he's actualy level 24--taken from The W's C page89 under Goverment) so he has not reach his final stage of metamorphosis. Unless you already know this litle detail and you ment a much "future" Oronis has in not yet aware he shall time travel in the green age........ Then, why not!!!
It could be him.There is also an other question nagging me about Kreen ruins(if it is a ruin)... Do you have any official,or not, information on what the h**l is the "place of interest"(never mentioned anywere--at least not to my knowledge--) named Kazin's Heads situated north of Dezig in the Crimson Savannah. Was it suppose to be developed in a (never published) future accesory/adventure etc ???
Originally posted by AvatarDSO
can you tell me where in what material book it talks about space faring halfings? This is still news to me about them going to space..
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If you are refering to the Messenger of Athas--which is a comet orbiting around Athas every 77 year(if my memory is correct)-- being a Space ship maneuvered by halflings you should read the thread name Space halflings.
I dearly think --- and most of us think the same--that it was all just a rumor. Nothing official was ever writen on the Space halfling subject.
As for the nature-benders, allow me to stickle also and mention that the published material states that the nature benders and nature masters were both rhulisti. No zik-chil, I'm afraid. Nice idea, though...
The kreen Great One and the avangion are mentioned most recently in Terrors of the Dead Lands, under the write-up on Raaigs. Also in "Taste of Fear" adventure too, I think...
Also, the adventure in the DS2 box had an inscription that went on about the Blue Age returning and the rhulisti coming back. Don't think that there was anything beyond that (and the Lynn Abbey interview and that bit in Prism Pentad with the bio-coccoons...)
Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
Your theory would be quite plausible but...
Sorry to pop your baloon friend but Oronis is only in his 4th stage of avangion ( he's actualy level 24--taken from The W's C page89 under Goverment) so he has not reach his final stage of metamorphosis. Unless you already know this litle detail and you ment a much "future" Oronis has in not yet aware he shall time travel in the green age........ Then, why not!!!
I quote from the same passage you quoted from:
I think the future Oronis, when he achieves this stage of metamorphosis goes back into the green age, possibly to learn what he can about what the environment was like
It's right there, I already accounted for it.
There is also an other question nagging me about Kreen ruins(if it is a ruin)... Do you have any official,or not, information on what the h**l is the "place of interest"(never mentioned anywere--at least not to my knowledge--) named Kazin's Heads situated north of Dezig in the Crimson Savannah. Was it suppose to be developed in a (never published) future accesory/adventure etc ???
Sorry, no I don't have any information on that.
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134939
Originally posted by Kamelion
Kazin's Heads (covered in TKOA or DS2 box, iirc) is a site frequented by "revolutionary" kreen opposed to the expansionist ways of the empire.
Sorry but I still havent found anything concerning Kazin's Head in neither books. The only ruined temple-size head is the one described in the adventure called The Taste Of Fear and the head is called Chak'sa head, not Kazin's head and that "head" is in the Hinterlands. Kazin's head is in the CS.
Again, I may be wrong when I say there's nothing writen on that ruin(if it is a ruin) so if by any chance you do come across the page of which book, please do tell me so I can pinpoint the exact location.
Originally posted by Kamelion
As for the nature-benders, allow me to stickle also and mention that the published material states that the nature benders and nature masters were both rhulisti. No zik-chil, I'm afraid. Nice idea, though...
Xlore.... was refering to the nature-benders which eventualy transformed hemselves(with time) into Zik-Chils race and may also explain why they're smaler then all the other Kreen race/sub-races.
thanks for the reply.
Again, I may be wrong when I say there's nothing writen on that ruin(if it is a ruin) so if by any chance you do come across the page of which book, please do tell me so I can pinpoint the exact location.
Sure, no worries. I read about it the other day - sorry I can't remember where. I'll check and get back to you
Originally posted by Ryltar Swordsong
DS revised boxed set Wanderer's Chronicle, pg. 102 last paragraph, mentions the revolutionary Kreen gathering at Kazin's Heads.
Now I now why I had no recolection of the site : a phrase or two is not quite what I call description!!
Thanks alot for the info
DS revised boxed set Wanderer's Chronicle, pg. 102 last paragraph, mentions the revolutionary Kreen gathering at Kazin's Heads.
Cool - thanks! That was the bit I was referring to...
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm
My personal belief is that the Zik-Chil were the Rhulisti Life-Shapers (the evil ones) that were banished. I worked with the idea that they altered the physiology and size of praying mantises to make the Kreen species, and also altered themselves to become the Zik-Chil. Unfortunately somewhere they got their original intent muddied up, and effectively the life-shapers wiped themselves out, and the Zik-Chil & Tohr-Kreen are their successors. The Torh-Kreen Zik-Chil still have the desire to conquer the Tablelands (where the Life-Shapers were banished from) and the continuous drive to achieve that goal, integrated into their very genetic code.
Following this idea, may we assume the Rhulisti Nature-benders(those who slowly transformed themselves into Zik-chils) originated from the Koshak Mtns. It would make sence because:
1--- Koshak Mtns is a Kreen word meaning "holder of knowledge in the sky" which would be remnants of the Rhulisti’s ritualistic "technology" of the Blue age when the Mtns peaks were mere islands.(I suspect the Nature-benders’s facilities were mostly underwater--near the peaks-- for hiding from their Rhulistic ennemies and for protection against the “beast” kreen on the islands’s surfaces.)
2--- Geographically speaking, it would also explain why the Kreen Empire is situated so far away into the Crimson Savannah lands hence from the Rhul-thaun of today.
3--- The fact that Zik-chil are ancient nature-benders could explain why the Kreen race are still trying to find a way to climb, more and more effectively, the Jagged Cliffs to skirmish with the Rhul-thaunians(more details on Kefka's thread about the skirmishes between the two races) although they now control a safer passage though the Jagged cliffs(the Great Rift)
4--- Simply because I like to think that the Koshak Mtns were ment to be: for a good reason
What do you think?
Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
Following this idea, may we assume the Rhulisti Nature-benders(those who slowly transformed themselves into Zik-chils) originated from the Koshak Mtns. It would make sence because:
1--- Koshak Mtns is a Kreen word meaning "holder of knowledge in the sky" which would be remnants of the Rhulisti’s ritualistic "technology" of the Blue age when the Mtns peaks were mere islands.(I suspect the Nature-benders’s facilities were mostly underwater--near the peaks-- for hiding from their Rhulistic ennemies and for protection against the “beast” kreen on the islands’s surfaces.)
Seems to make sense. I found that with the idea of the Zik-Chil's origins being the Rhulisti Nature-benders, I can find many little things that build from it. This just seems to be another one.
2--- Geographically speaking, it would also explain why the Kreen Empire is situated so far away into the Crimson Savannah lands hence from the Rhul-thaun of today.
Well, if the mountains are away from the Tyr region, out further than the Crimson Savannah (as I don't know those mountains off the top of my head and currently have....misplaced my maps of Athas again), it could also help with the idea that the jagged cliffs are a continental shelf that used to be under the water. If I recall, the Rhulisti "formed" the cliffs to help keep out the nature-benders (and set up garrisons on it to keep watch and defend against them or something like that, if I remember Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs info properly), then maybe it wasn't dry land yet below them. The nature-benders could have used boats/ships to cross the ocean to those mountains (which could have appeared to be nothing more than islands at the time). When the water receeded, they moved down into the lands below.
3--- The fact that Zik-chil are ancient nature-benders could explain why the Kreen race are still trying to find a way to climb, more and more effectively, the Jagged Cliffs to skirmish with the Rhul-thaunians(more details on Kefka's thread about the skirmishes between the two races) although they now control a safer passage though the Jagged cliffs(the Great Rift)
Exactly - the Rhul-Thaunians, IMO are the decendants of those Rhulisti who were sent to guard the cliffs from the nature-benders. They became cut-off from the other Rhulisti (at the Rebirth), and have basically set up their own society as a result. Thousands of years later, and viola - you have Rhul-Thaun. Some of them may have tried to get back to the otehr Rhulisti, and could have ended up in the forests/jungles, along with the other surviving Rhulisti that became the progenetors of the feral Halflings.
4--- Simply because I like to think that the Koshak Mtns were ment to be: for a good reason
Works for me.