Bard confusion - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Bard confusion

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
The_White_Sorcerer
Nov 18, 2003 2:52:41 On page 261 of the DLCS it says:
"Bards: As arcane spellcasters who make use of primal sorcery, bards cannot cast spells in the War of the Lance era (since sorcerers don't exist)."

On page 272 it says:
"Bards: Since their magic is granted from the moons of magic like wizards, bards lose the ability to cast arcane magic during the early Age of Mortals. All other abilities, such as bardic music and knowledge, are retained regardless of era."

Does this mean the only era they have spells in is the post-WoS 5th Age?
Where does their magic come from, primal sorcery or High Sorcery?
Me confused.
#2
Dragonhelm
Nov 18, 2003 9:20:22 Ugh. That's an editing error.

Bards should only be using the power of primal sorcery, as they cast spells in a similar manner to sorcerers.

Bards exist during the entire Age of Mortals. They do not exist in other eras.
#3
jonesy
Nov 18, 2003 9:29:22
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
Bards exist during the entire Age of Mortals. They do not exist in other eras.

Spellcasting bards that is.
#4
cam_banks
Nov 18, 2003 9:35:06
Originally posted by jonesy
Spellcasting bards that is.

Right. Common minstrels, skalds, musicians, storytellers and actors exist in any age. The bard class from the Players Handbook on the other hand exists only in the Age of Mortals.

The bard's role is largely covered by nobles and mariners in other ages, who exist as support characters with some combat ability. Neither is a spellcaster, however, so multiclassing with wizard or cleric (of Branchala, Gilean or Hiddukel) is also an option.

Cheers,
Cam
#5
jonesy
Nov 18, 2003 9:45:36
Originally posted by Cam Banks The bard's role is largely covered by nobles and mariners in other ages, who exist as support characters with some combat ability. Neither is a spellcaster, however, so multiclassing with wizard or cleric (of Branchala, Gilean or Hiddukel) is also an option.

Hmm. Quivalen Soth as a Noble/Cleric of Gilean. I think I'll try that the next time we do a pre-Cataclysm campaign.
#6
The_White_Sorcerer
Nov 18, 2003 11:14:54 Thanks for clearing that up for me.

The bard class DOES exist before the Age of Mortals, they just don't have spells. Other abilities (bardic music and knowledge) are still available for bards. It's kinda like the ranger during the pre-WotL 4th Age and pre-WoS 5th Age eras.

Thanks again!
#7
cam_banks
Nov 18, 2003 12:35:33
Originally posted by The White Sorcerer

The bard class DOES exist before the Age of Mortals, they just don't have spells. Other abilities (bardic music and knowledge) are still available for bards. It's kinda like the ranger during the pre-WotL 4th Age and pre-WoS 5th Age eras.

I'd argue that even the bardic music, which produces supernatural and spell-like effects, wouldn't function in other eras, either. How do the bards acquire this magical ability?

Cheers,
Cam
#8
ferratus
Nov 19, 2003 4:33:20 Well, if you're going to cut the spells out of the Bard, you pretty much gut the class. So why not just say that Bards don't exist pre-5th Age? Then you pretty much avoid the problem. Bards can easily be taken the place of with a rogue or expert with high levels of perform. Look at Tol's childhood friend in a Warrior's Journey. He was a rogue/assassin with a perform skill check, but was considered a bard.

Myself, I have no problem with spellcasting sorcerers and bards in previous ages. If SAGA magic had been significantly different from D&D magic, I might care more, but I just don't really see the need to be obsessed with it. I just look at it and say "Apprentice mages and renegades use magic that isn't influenced by the moons all the time", and thus I can't see why they can't exist side by side in all ages. I just simply have wizards cut the bardic colleges a deal (complete with a live-in WoHS observer) that they take the test when they reach a certain level of power. Their extremely minor healing abilities don't bother me either, since that can represented by a paladin's devotion to Branchala. It is no more problematic to me than a mystic or cleric having access to wizard spells through their domains.

It seems more important to me then to develop a world-specific subculture for bardic colleges. That means that bards will not be the simple wandering minstrels of other realms, a jester or pop star. Instead, they are devout keepers of lore, mundane and magical, with a very pious devotion to their bard king. The loremasters of ancient empires and kingdoms.

Of course, when it comes time to make maps and detail these bardic colleges, I'll leave their magical abilities in the past an ambigious thing, so that those who do care about keeping sorcery out of their WotL games can enjoy it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 The_White_Sorcerer Nov 18, 2003 2:52:41	On page 261 of the DLCS it says: "Bards: As arcane spellcasters who make use of primal sorcery, bards cannot cast spells in the War of the Lance era (since sorcerers don't exist)." On page 272 it says: "Bards: Since their magic is granted from the moons of magic like wizards, bards lose the ability to cast arcane magic during the early Age of Mortals. All other abilities, such as bardic music and knowledge, are retained regardless of era." Does this mean the only era they have spells in is the post-WoS 5th Age? Where does their magic come from, primal sorcery or High Sorcery? Me confused.
#2 Dragonhelm Nov 18, 2003 9:20:22	Ugh. That's an editing error. Bards should only be using the power of primal sorcery, as they cast spells in a similar manner to sorcerers. Bards exist during the entire Age of Mortals. They do not exist in other eras.
#3 jonesy Nov 18, 2003 9:29:22	Originally posted by Dragonhelm Bards exist during the entire Age of Mortals. They do not exist in other eras. Spellcasting bards that is.
#4 cam_banks Nov 18, 2003 9:35:06	Originally posted by jonesy Spellcasting bards that is. Right. Common minstrels, skalds, musicians, storytellers and actors exist in any age. The bard class from the Players Handbook on the other hand exists only in the Age of Mortals. The bard's role is largely covered by nobles and mariners in other ages, who exist as support characters with some combat ability. Neither is a spellcaster, however, so multiclassing with wizard or cleric (of Branchala, Gilean or Hiddukel) is also an option. Cheers, Cam
#5 jonesy Nov 18, 2003 9:45:36	Originally posted by Cam Banks The bard's role is largely covered by nobles and mariners in other ages, who exist as support characters with some combat ability. Neither is a spellcaster, however, so multiclassing with wizard or cleric (of Branchala, Gilean or Hiddukel) is also an option. Hmm. Quivalen Soth as a Noble/Cleric of Gilean. I think I'll try that the next time we do a pre-Cataclysm campaign.
#6 The_White_Sorcerer Nov 18, 2003 11:14:54	Thanks for clearing that up for me. The bard class DOES exist before the Age of Mortals, they just don't have spells. Other abilities (bardic music and knowledge) are still available for bards. It's kinda like the ranger during the pre-WotL 4th Age and pre-WoS 5th Age eras. Thanks again!
#7 cam_banks Nov 18, 2003 12:35:33	Originally posted by The White Sorcerer The bard class DOES exist before the Age of Mortals, they just don't have spells. Other abilities (bardic music and knowledge) are still available for bards. It's kinda like the ranger during the pre-WotL 4th Age and pre-WoS 5th Age eras. I'd argue that even the bardic music, which produces supernatural and spell-like effects, wouldn't function in other eras, either. How do the bards acquire this magical ability? Cheers, Cam
#8 ferratus Nov 19, 2003 4:33:20	Well, if you're going to cut the spells out of the Bard, you pretty much gut the class. So why not just say that Bards don't exist pre-5th Age? Then you pretty much avoid the problem. Bards can easily be taken the place of with a rogue or expert with high levels of perform. Look at Tol's childhood friend in a Warrior's Journey. He was a rogue/assassin with a perform skill check, but was considered a bard. Myself, I have no problem with spellcasting sorcerers and bards in previous ages. If SAGA magic had been significantly different from D&D magic, I might care more, but I just don't really see the need to be obsessed with it. I just look at it and say "Apprentice mages and renegades use magic that isn't influenced by the moons all the time", and thus I can't see why they can't exist side by side in all ages. I just simply have wizards cut the bardic colleges a deal (complete with a live-in WoHS observer) that they take the test when they reach a certain level of power. Their extremely minor healing abilities don't bother me either, since that can represented by a paladin's devotion to Branchala. It is no more problematic to me than a mystic or cleric having access to wizard spells through their domains. It seems more important to me then to develop a world-specific subculture for bardic colleges. That means that bards will not be the simple wandering minstrels of other realms, a jester or pop star. Instead, they are devout keepers of lore, mundane and magical, with a very pious devotion to their bard king. The loremasters of ancient empires and kingdoms. Of course, when it comes time to make maps and detail these bardic colleges, I'll leave their magical abilities in the past an ambigious thing, so that those who do care about keeping sorcery out of their WotL games can enjoy it.