as has been apparent from some of my posts, I have been running a campaign for some time. Still, I keep feeling a bit inexperienced and unlearned towards RL-DMing. I have a group of 5 players and I have practically quit tryint to instill the gothic mood of the game. I think my players don't quite understand that mindframe, and since all we want is to have fun, we all (me included) end up making some jokes.
Problem is, that really deters from the ambience, and only now and then do I get moments when they are shocked or afraid. But it is rare. In general, they think they can gain access to all the information they want by acting strong and passing some coins below the table.
Fine by me, that also exists in RL and they are still in a safe place, but after each session, I begin to feel a bit incompetent about it all.
I do not use dimmed lights, music or props (music sometimes, I try, but since I cannot easily control the Hi-Fi when I'm at the table, in general we don't have music). So, the real world mood is not already very proper to instill worriness and some heaviness in the players.
So, my question is: can we achieve the Gothic mood merely by story factors, without any outside decor influence ? I mean, from your experience, will players change when their characters begin to feel threatened, betrayed, alone ?
For specific questions, if I have one player be "betrayed" by his lady-friend, another have her sister in law fall ill all of a sudden, and another not knowing if he's a werewolf or not, do you think this will change anything in their attitude ? It's like I have 3 players well attuned, or almost, to the setting, but the other 2 are still a bit off.
So, the bottomline is: do you think in story problems can bring them a bit more to the mood ? I've almost despaired of doing it a Gothic Horror story, and resigned to seeing my campaign fall to a more Dark Fantasy theme, much that I wanted to try the first.
Thank you.
W.C.
P.S.: sorry for the disorganization of the post. I feel I need help but I can't quite decide how I should ask, or where my problems are precisely. So, I can't organize my thoughts well enough to ask it understandably and cleanly. Thank you once more. Btw, this is the only group I've ever gamed with. Aside RL, we have only played GW, FR (in computer games) and home-made domains.
If I may give you some advice, I would recommend you give these "outside influences" a try. You can't imagine what a simple thing like dimming the lights can do. Try it, you won't lose anything. The Ravenloft game was, after all, designed with these tricks in mind.
There are lots of "dirty" storry-telling tricks though that you can use. With two caveats I launch into my advice:
1) Pick and choose your battles. Its fine to be asking about the soda and chips when "the suns out" and everyone is happy. The Balioks look scenic and the land of mists is beautiful. A lot of the time Ravenloft should seem a gorgeous (sensual?) backdrop. Its only when the mosters creep close and "darkness comes" that it becomes a bad place to be.
2) The PCs are heroes. Don't expect your campaign to unfold exactly like a gothic horror storry. Generally PCs are a lot more capable than "Dr. Seward's" of the world. Its generally not reasonable for the PCs to be scared of a few zombies when they're 6th level. For this reason alone its a good idea to start new PCs at 1st level so they get to start getting scarred from the ground up.
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3) Use suggestive descriptions. Grey sky, wine stains, snakey vines, dark shadows etc. You want to suggest something "bad" without naming it. Some players like to brush this part off, but I have a hunch that most players are effected on some level by this. Some times that joke or laugh is to release nervous energy.
4) Modulate your voice and pitch. When I want to get the players attention as I share some juicy (suggestive) bit of "boxed text" or description I lean forward, smile and start describing things softly. The more suggestive it is, the more teeth I show in my smile and lower my voice becomes. Like "what happened/is about to happen" is pleasing to me the DM, and incidentally I'm also about to screw around with your paper toy character thank you so much for being follish enough to bring him or her to this point in time. I think its the smile that helps creep players out most.
5) Its never just an "orc". Once players have analysed it and put a list of powers and abilities (and weaknesses) in place for the critter, it is isn't as scarry. Far better to have a crying five year old talk about "dogmen" than to let slip PCs are facing werewolves, wolfweres, talking worgs, half dog tempalted aberrations built by Mordenheim or vampiric gnolls (or anything else). An unseen boogyman can be even better.
Example: The creepiest module I've ever played in was called "Insomnia" and was written by Rucht Liliavet for the Living Death campaign. The bad things were pretty much intangible foes who only did bad things when the PCs backs were turned. What made so creepy was that I as both a player and the character A) could see evidence of "bad things" all around me (furniture and people disappeared) B) didn't really know why this was going on and C) didn't have a clue how to fight it since there was never a chance to confront the monsters (till the very end).
6) It still isn't just an "orc". All monsters are storry driven. They don't exist "just because". The heart of Strahd isn't that he's a vampire. The tale could be rewritten just as well as a reflection of "Dorian Grey" rather than as "Dracula". The heart of Strahd is that made a terrible pact sealed when he murdered his brother to possess his brother's intended (and is now cursed to find her forever beyond his grasp). Its easy to brush off an encounter with a monster. When humanity shows through parts the PCs will feel somewhat sypathetic and be moved (to greater or lesser degrees). repeat as a mantra: "Its all about the storry."
Its not the most original collection of tips but I hope something there helps.
-Eric Gorman
I did things like this in a *very* heavily modified version of the venerable Castle Amber module (so heavily modified I was running it in GURPS) and it seemed to leave an impression on the players, though not as much of one as when they found out the upper story of the castle was turned 180 degrees from its apparent appearance when viewed from outside...
Originally posted by Brandi
One trick, though it wouldn't work for every setting: don't be afraid to mess with player's heads a little. Even now it's suggested that distances in Ravenloft sometimes vary a little, for no readily understood reason. Let someone pace off a room and find that as they walked from the door to the far wall it was 10 paces... but 11 when they walked back. And then maybe it switches.
I did things like this in a *very* heavily modified version of the venerable Castle Amber module (so heavily modified I was running it in GURPS) and it seemed to leave an impression on the players, though not as much of one as when they found out the upper story of the castle was turned 180 degrees from its apparent appearance when viewed from outside...
Thanks Brandi, it's just that I need to have a reason to do that. If that would happen, I had to know myself why it was happening. You see, I'm an engineer, 3 of my players are engineers, one is an architect and another (the only girl) is studying Accountancy. It's a fairly rational party: If I'm going to do something at all, I need to have a backup explanation for it.
But thanks all the same. You all have much more experience than I, so I have only to learn from you. :-)
From your suggestions thus far, I really think the descriptive reading would add a lot, but I'm lazy to write all the texts beforehand, and within the pressure, I haven't thus far improvised very well. The players do stop and listen when I am reading aloud, and it seems to create good effects (it has always accomplished something, at least because the texts are thought out before the session), but in the several encounters, I simply haven't managed to pass any kind of danger, dread, or whatever. Perhaps this is what I have to work mostly.
As for modulating my voice, I'm a bit shy and embarrassed to do it. I do it occasionally, but it still feels strange. And yet, at least in one particular time it worked very, very well.
Well, thanks for listening and for your input. "See" you around.
W.C.
Originally posted by William Cairnstone
Thanks Brandi, it's just that I need to have a reason to do that. If that would happen, I had to know myself why it was happening. You see, I'm an engineer, 3 of my players are engineers, one is an architect and another (the only girl) is studying Accountancy. It's a fairly rational party: If I'm going to do something at all, I need to have a backup explanation for it.
I think if players realize that there is something inherently irrational about the situation they're in, it can be suitably upsetting even without justification. No one was ever able to explain why Hill House's architecture was as screwed up as it was.... (FWIW, the best reaction in my group to the upper floor being out of phase *was* from the player who was an engineer!)
Extra fun in that game: my map was on triangular graph paper (hey, my husband had some that was useless after college, and there's at least one actual triangular castle out there) but the players were trying to map it on regular square paper...
But thanks all the same. You all have much more experience than I, so I have only to learn from you. :-)
Actually, I've only GMed once, and if I can just figure out how the hell I want to *start* an RL campaign (I'm down to the where the PCs would probably live but not quite the how/why they would ever meet) I'd like to do it some more.
I target one player as the receiver of visions, and make sure I gather all the OTHER players to the Table before the chosen one arrives. Then I go over the scenario with them.
Here's an example:
The party is doing their everyday, normal adventuring through the woods. Suddenly, the other players begin to act strange around the Chosen One (remember, he's the only one NOT in on the deal). They seem to be subtly setting him up, or studying him in a strange fashion. Suddenly, they all attack and try to steal his magic item. When the battle is over, the Chosen One (who has most likely been beaten very hard by his adventuring companions) suddenly wakes up.
When the PLAYER tries to discuss what happened to the OTHER players, they totally pretend they don't know what he's sayin. "We didn't turn on you, what are you talking about?"
Then keep doing it. Have the party go all the way down the dark corridor, until the evil thing at the end jumps out and kills them all. Then AGAIN the Chosen One awakens (right at the beginning of the dark hall) and finds himself and his companions totally fine.
Just keep messin with him until he's not sure what's real and what's not. In some ways, it is similar to Lemot Juste (sp?) and his Playhouse of Doooooom. Just make sure the other players are in on the Mind-F*** and play along appropriately. It's a great way to role-play out a failed Madness check.
Just a thought.
if your players are any kind of decent role-players, it shouldnt matter if they periodically break character or dissapear for snacks. one cannot give an oscar winning performance on an empty stomach, after all....
Originally posted by Keg of Ale
Another advice. If you want to hold the players consentrated on the mood, try the following trick: Make a house rule that says that once the players are sitted, all they say is in-game. If they want to speak out-of-game ("hey, pass me the soda!"), they have to stand up from their chair. The idea is to get them totally immersed in the story. Enforce this rule, and you might get somewhere. Of course, it won't work for *all* sorts of players out there, but its an idea.
I use a variation on this rule in my own games, called "The Moose Rule". If anyone speaks out of character, they have to hold their spread hand up beside their face, with their thumb at their temple....making them look like a moose. Such a silly gesture really makes them try to avoid it (and avoid embarassment), thereby staying in character.
I also recommend music for helping to set mood, but only when it's kept low and doesn't have lyrics. Almost any kind of lyrical music will detract from your DMing, and often will distract players.
It's been said, but keep the lights down low...playing by candlelight is a cool effect, even if it seems cheesy.
Finally, just use your innate acting abilities to their utmost. Fake voices, even if you can't do them well. Make gestures 'in-character'. Every little bit that you do to make your NPCs seem 'real' will rub off on your players, and thereby rub off on their PCs, too.
Originally posted by Vogon
I usually have the soundtracks from bram stoker's dracula...in constant rotation.
ME TOO!
I use the 6th Sense and choice selections from Stigmata, as well.
These can be simple atmospherics, like
--"You notice a number of deliberate gouges around the lock on the door"
--"You hear something upstairs... like the wind moaning and the shutters clattering in the attic above."
You could add deliberate hints or red herrings, or the results of successful or failed skill checks:
-- "You notice a loose floorboard near the desk."
-- "Most of the items in the curio appear worthless, but one of them seems out of place... like it would appraise for much more than the others."
-- "You hear [see, smell] nothing out of the ordinary."
Anyone getting a note will then have to decide whether to convey that information to the others... and the others will then have to weigh whether they are being told the whole truth.
Of course, the Dark Powers might be outright messing with their minds:
-- "You hear an extra set of footsteps in the room."
-- "An unexpected breeze whispers by. You get a whiff of a fishy odor, then roses... then it's gone."
-- "You don't remember seeing [your own / someone else's] reflection in the hallway mirror."
-- "She looks nervous. Like she's hiding something."
-- "Did you count the steps on the staircase?"
Some of these are pretty heavy-handed, and may be difficult to think up or scrawl out legibly in a hurry. Pre-print a few that you're sure you'll use; whoever gets one will think it's a highly significant event. Set one person on edge and the rest will follow. But whether the note is relevant or gets a reaction from the receiver, it's bound to have some effect -- nothing sets a group of paranoid monster-hunters on edge better than thinking that one of their group knows a something that the rest don't...
Originally posted by William Cairnstone
As for modulating my voice, I'm a bit shy and embarrassed to do it. I do it occasionally, but it still feels strange. And yet, at least in one particular time it worked very, very well.
At the beginning it's hard to jump over your own shadow, but with every time you use it, you're feeling better. Well at the beginning of my DM career (TM) I read the boxed texts to the players, it was not so good. (We play in german, and reading aloud english text isn't so good!) So I tried to get my own style. Descripting scenes or npc's isn't so hard, but to me it's hard work - alas the modulation of my voice is easy. Everytime my players encounter a npc with a strange vocal habit (stuttering, french accent aso) they say it's absolutely great. Well I think, this is my best field in DMing!
First I wanted (aside from praising your choice of browser) to encourage you to do voices. It may sound lame, you may sound lame to yourself, but it needs some practice not only to get it right but also to stop worrying about the embarassment part. The trick that made me going was to play a parody game for a while where the world was totally absurd and nothing had to make sense at all. I found out that since I had nothing to lose I was free to test every little idea I had. I started doing very funny NPC voices and it has affected my normal games in the way that most major PCs have their own voices now.
One way to get people into the mood in a snap is to create some unexplained mysterious diversion. A dog went down in darkness with a yelp when sent out to "test" a dark passage. Upon investigation there was nothing apart from the dog's corpse. The players' attention was focused for about an hour after the encounter. I'm not suggesting to kill every NPC, but one can sometimes use it in a right situation. Make them meet something unexplained which could possibly (in their minds) threaten them. The best fear is the fear of unknown. You can always have some mystery hanging above the players. It even hasn't got to be imminent danger.
Also, when describing, I found out that you can sometimes add tension to your descriptions by making a stylistical pause in middle of saying something important, or unimportant. It both gives you and the players some time to think, you most probably can think of some outcome, they can just feel the anticipation. Don't overuse it though.
And also note that you can use some dangerous words when describing innocent things and stuff. The players are on constant lookout of danger so if you say that there is a cat sharpening its claws the players subconciously get the words SHARP and CLAWS. Which makes them a bit more alert.
Have fun and don't be afraid to experiment.
The rule we use is "anything said aloud will be considered ingame, with all consequences that could cause". It has worked pretty well, thus far.
Thanks for all the input.
W.C.
Maybe there is someone doing this all just to mess with them, maybe it is some insanely evil dwarf. Perhaps an architect with a flare for magery, who just happens to be the guy that sent them on their most recent quest.
These kinda things could get them involved, once you have their attention, theatre becomes key.
I could be way off, but I have run some decent campaigns in RL.
You do not have to be a literary genius, or a loremaster, just find what will get them engrossed, then do a little psch warfare to wear em down a notch, then hit em with a classic horror, then twist it.
Originally posted by HvF
I don't use music or dimmed lights...in fact I've always thought dimmed lights was a little hoakey as a player.
It is if you abuse it, like the other 'techniques'.
I use it with great effect when we are running a part of the game that is during the night. Then back to normal light during 'day'..
The first time, the players had a funny smile on their face, saying 'boo-hoo' and similar comments. But, they jumped in the atmosphere quite quickly, and none of their commemnts were OOC.
My lesson: don't think that dimming lights will suffise at making atmosphere, it will help, but the DM style should continue to be the key elements.
Jo
Originally posted by Ares of Wil
OK, back to basics. As it has been stated previously, it IS all about the story. The story, however, needs help. You mentioned that the players are engineers and an accountant. That's nice, but are the characters all going around with engineering skills? It is fair for them to expect you to have a story, it IS fair for you to expect them to remain in character. Besides, Brandi's suggestion is perfectly valid, if they really need an explanation for ehy the measurements of the room change, then it is up to THEM to investigate it. I can imagine this kind of investigation could get them very deeply engrossed in a deep GOTHIC HORROR MYSTERY.
that's true, but I need to have a firm explanation on which to settle so I can give them enough clues should they want to investigate. I need to be coherent, at least, and I really don't like things without any explanation, no matter how much supernatural. Have you had success with things that were so just because of a DM's whim, and that defied any explanation of the players ? If so, I'm willing to give it a try, but I've never done it and I think I would feel a bit uncomfortable. Anyhow, like so many other things in this thread I'm going to try :-)
W.C.
Originally posted by Brandi
I don't know if this is a firm enough explanation, but it has been suggested in some RL material that the land itself seems to fluctate in irregular ways-- perhaps a Mist concentration bubbles up in an otherwise familiar street and its inhabitants find themelves peculiarly lost.
Ok, that's enough for me. As long as I know why it happens, it's ok.
Thanks.
W.C.