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This is completely selfish of me, but I really, really want a Planescape for 3.5e D&D. People who know me know I'm a big fan of Planescape. And I think Sword & Sorcery are the ones to do it.
Monte Cook of Malhavoc Press, IIRC, got his start with TSR on Planescape's Planewalkers Handbook. He has stated that he'd do Planescape again if he wasn't working for Wizards to do it. He's got a lot of other former TSR contacts, too. Malhavoc being under S&S already, it'd be a cinch to nab him for additional S&S work on Planescape.
So, if you're a fan of Planescape and want to see S&S do a 3.5e version of it, please sign my petition. I'm letting it run for six months.
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The link to the petition is
http://www.petitiononline.com/ps35esns/
Situation 1) Planescape is bought by another company. This is unlikely due to the high cost of the license and WotC's particularly...unhelpful contract with other distributors. Aside from that, even with if the license was bought it is very likely that a large amount of its content would not be included. Here's to name a few things that WotC would keep within its core material, and thus not allow to be used by other companies:
*All the deities in Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and Dragonlance, and the historic deities.
*The Lords of the Nine, Demon Princes, and Celestial Paragons.
*Historic figures that have appeared on the planes, such as Vecna (though some might accept this...)
*Certain races that have shown up in other products (Chaond, Zenythri, Bladeling, Khaasta, maybe even Tiefling...)
*The ability to incorporate feats, PrCs, and magic from supplement books.
*Possibily certain planes, such as the new take on the Shadow Plane, the Faerie Plane, the Far Realm, and other realms never really a part of Planescape
Etc. Etc.
Situation 2) WotC produces Planescape. It's butchered. The end.
So...as much as I'd like to get Planescape in print again, I don't see how it could possible work out right any other way than what we're doing already. And of course, I would strongly desire that our team be majorily behind anything official.
In any case, I'm curious about your source for Monte Cook saying he'd like to work on it, so please do provide a link. Thank you.
Planewalker is the best, and, really, the only bet.
I was going to let the thread die out of pure uninlightened self interest. Aka if somebody else buys the rights and produces it, anything we've collectively written and produced thus far is likely to not be incorporated. Though if they want to gain my worship, they could splurge on the license and other fees and then hire us all. ;)
And yes, you did hear the word worship mentioned by a Yugoloth... and not in my usual sense of telling people to worship ME
Originally posted by Primus, the One and Prime
Does the thread starter even know about Planewalker? I'm not trying to be rude, I'd just like to know, because someone IS making a 3e/3.5e Planescape.
No, I've checked out the stuff at planewalker. I just thought that the petition would be of interest to people here. Didn't mean to wizz on anyone's parade.
Look on the bright side, at least it hasn't been butchered.
I think we all want to see Planescape return, but we don't think it can. But that's a little self-defeating, isn't it? So good luck with your petition; if anything I hope it attracts some attention to the setting and our position. I've considered searching out publishers at times, though I never went through with it because of the above concerns. But if I trust anyone at this point, it'd probably be Monte Cook.
So good luck with your petition
Not mine, just posted the link.
I also recall that WotC initially planned to release setting books (sans follow up products) once a year when 3e first came out. Obviously that plan has been scrapped, but with OA, DL, and CoC serving as examples, it looks like they're opening up more to such an idea.
I would think however he's rather busy with other projects at the moment. From Malhavoc to S&S etc, he seems to have his hands full. It would be great to have involvement or commentary by some of the folks who had been involved in the Planescape writing/design team.
I'd emailed Ray Vallese some time ago, but never got a reply back from him. I figure the email got lost or he's too busy. Either way I won't press the issue on anyone out of respect.
I guess that's what I really love about what the PS3E team is doing. Once we have one campaign setting, we can all be playing on one rule set and we'll all be on the same page. It won't be "I play a converted 3rd edition Planescape campaign and houserule all my player's faction abilities and use monsters from everywhere."
Speaking of which, what is the plan for PS3E monster conversions? I'm kind of disappointed that so many other sources have converted planar monsters already, because I was hoping we could get one source to handle them all.
As for monster conversions...we have a lot done, but at this point I don't really see the point in releasing a monster book.
... an eccentric millionare who doesn't mind a general loss of money would be able to do PS without problem.
Michael Jackson?
Originally posted by nick012000
Michael Jackson?
Not for long, since he's wanted by the authories ATM.
Originally posted by Kuje31
Not for long, since he's wanted by the authories ATM.
Yes, but how long will the trial take? And if he loses, how long will the appeal take? More than enough time to get a bit of money off of him. All you will need is a kid with a fatal disease, who happens to like Planescape, to ask him for money.
Originally posted by nick012000
Yes, but how long will the trial take? And if he loses, how long will the appeal take? More than enough time to get a bit of money off of him. All you will need is a kid with a fatal disease, who happens to like Planescape, to ask him for money.
True enough.
He's got his own series of books coming out, the Spiderwick Chronicles that he's doing all the illustrations for, as well as other contract work that I imagine will keep him busy for some time. I'd emailed his wife at one point asking about one of his pictures, and I think she made mention that he was rather happily busy at the moment but had very fond memories of his Planescape work.
Nice folks, both of 'em. It'd be cool to actually meet them one day.
And on that note, I'm really hoping to actually go to GenCon next year if I can scrimp and save up till then.
1. Don't have to take a loan out to buy it
2. My opinion could matter in its development (not really, but the possibility exists)
3. If so inclined AND accepted by everyone as actually being a knowledgeable person on the subject and a good enough writer, I could help as much as needed in its conversion
4. The guys have already put alot into what they have done so far and I know that I would hate to do all that hard work on something only to have to scrap it all (by the way, great work so far guys)
Just my opinion
Planewalker.com's rate of output is not terribly impressive. The available material is simply bare bones character creation, and even that's taken literally *years* to get out. The real juicy stuff - Sigil, planes, locations, gods, fiends, celestials, creatures, NPCs, plots and rumors - is still to be produced.
It's not terribly encouraging. (Feel free to correct me if my observations are incorrect.)
I've always loved Planescape (I used to contribute to the PSML and the Mimir semi-regularly), but the glacial rate at which Planescape 3e has appeared is discouraging. On the other hand, I can not see the line doing particularly well under the auspices of a professional publisher, WW or otherwise.
Sorry for the difficult opinion.
Chris Nichols
And I challenge you to find a nonprofit organization with this load that works faster ;)
Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
Agreed, oddly enough since I joined stuff has really kicked itself into high gear more or less. Sigil is on the way and I know other people are working on other stuff as well. It's far from glacial.
That's good to hear. There was much of the stagnation when I was in on it. It's why I kind of faded myself out...I really thought I'd like working on it, but there was too much bickering and then it would turn out that the bickering was for naught, because it was all set in stone already, so what's the point of even discussing things...*sigh*...that's why I'd much rather do something like this in person. Not exactly possible is it? But it'd be nice.
However I think we've made progress on some things, and my own opinion of the course of some things has been altered by other people's ideas and arguments, and likewise. There's been some decent give and take on plot matters.
Of course the factions were bound to have arguments on them. Everyone has their own favorite faction or factol. And there's the inevitable want to see them come out on top, either in plot or from a mechanics perspective. There's people who go nuts over factol Skall for example, and people who go nuts for the Athar, and folks who go all out for the Harmonium. I don't have any utter favorites really, and the one I like the most I didn't have any role in doing anything with them. (I liked Terrance I admit, he was just smooth)
But there's good stuff on the way and a good group of folks writing material.
Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
Well with any fan created product there's bound to be the inevitable bickering over minutia.
However I think we've made progress on some things, and my own opinion of the course of some things has been altered by other people's ideas and arguments, and likewise. There's been some decent give and take on plot matters.
Of course the factions were bound to have arguments on them. Everyone has their own favorite faction or factol. And there's the inevitable want to see them come out on top, either in plot or from a mechanics perspective. There's people who go nuts over factol Skall for example, and people who go nuts for the Athar, and folks who go all out for the Harmonium. I don't have any utter favorites really, and the one I like the most I didn't have any role in doing anything with them. (I liked Terrance I admit, he was just smooth)
But there's good stuff on the way and a good group of folks writing material.
Especially the nutcase who wrote the Bleaker and Sodkiller write-ups! :D
Monte Cook can´t release Planescape. Here his comment in his own forum:
I appreciate it, but I'll be honest. This is very unlikely to happen.
There are two reasons why anyone would purchase these rights:
1. To buy into an existing fanbase and get good sales.
2. For the sheer love of it.
The thing is, I've already got good sales and a fanbase that I really like (yes, that's you guys, in case you're wondering). I'm not one to discuss things like sales figures publicly, but it is doubtful that a PS product that I could write and sell would have substantially better sales than, say, the Book of Eldritch Might. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that it wouldn't. And then I have to pay WotC money for the PS product on top of it, and most likely they'd have some sort of approval process (ugh). I do indeed still love PS, but the thing is, I can write Planescape-like products and pay WotC nothing.
(For PS fans interested in PS-like products, you might check out the Banewarrens. There's some elements to that adventure that are very much like what I did in Dead Gods, and there's some weird planar stuff in there too--but at this stage, I'm avoiding spoilers...)
Monte
http://www.montecook.com
greetings
Marc Geiger
2) Enworld has announced that Wizards is producing The Player's Guide to the Planes in 2004.
Originally posted by CNichols
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but...
Planewalker.com's rate of output is not terribly impressive. The available material is simply bare bones character creation, and even that's taken literally *years* to get out. The real juicy stuff - Sigil, planes, locations, gods, fiends, celestials, creatures, NPCs, plots and rumors - is still to be produced.
It's not terribly encouraging. (Feel free to correct me if my observations are incorrect.)
I've always loved Planescape (I used to contribute to the PSML and the Mimir semi-regularly), but the glacial rate at which Planescape 3e has appeared is discouraging. On the other hand, I can not see the line doing particularly well under the auspices of a professional publisher, WW or otherwise.
Sorry for the difficult opinion.
Chris Nichols
You speak for me as well. I noticed the same thing with Athas.org when I ran my 3e Dark Sun game. I was glad that they were willing to spend their own free time on a setting that many of us loved, but they simply took too long for the group to put material out. My 3e Dark Sun campaign ran for over a year and finished at 22nd level before ANY material came out from them.
Planewalker.com seems to be suffering from the same problem that the Athas project had. I love Planescape even more than I love Dark Sun. I ran a successful Planescape campaign in 2e for 2 years and right now I am preparing to return to Planescape in 3.5e. I would be happy to use Planewaker.com or PS3E stuff because I would prefer to use good material produced by fellow devoted fans, but the material is being produced way too slowly to help me and I am seeing shades of my long fruitless wait for Athas.org.
To get to the point of this post. I am not trying to be offensive or to diminish anyone's work and I don't know whether or not the line will succeed under a professional publisher, but at this point it can't hurt to see if any of them will take it because the fan-based production seems to be moving way too slowly.
Tzarevitch
I don't think a professional publisher is going to get the core of the setting out any faster than the planewalker team, since the ps crew has a significant head start. Between writing the material, editing, etc, etc, etc, your end date for a "published" version would be just as far off, IMO, unless they had a completely crappy quality control process, and that isn't what I want.
I can access the material from those groups for example, but I was never part of the Faction's group as far as producing any material. And of course some people have drifted in and out of the PS3e team as their own real lives provide them with the time to participate.
I know that people are still working on the Outlands material, and I was part of / still am a part of that group. I've gotten the draft for Hopeless finished, a working draft of Torch languishing on my hard drive, and a more or less finished draft of the Masouleum of Chronepsis sitting around as well. I know that at least 2/3 of the Gatetowns are finished, or in the works. I can't say when they'll be finished though since theres other folks involved and I've been yanked off active work in that group to do other stuff.
I'm still revising the Sigil draft, which I keep saying about every other week it seems, but thats slowly reaching completion in all its monstrously long glory. My grammer is awkward though, so its taking some time and other people to read it, to finish it to where its presentable.
As well, there's another group that I'm working with that's been planning out some other material that I can't speak much on, because well its dark like that. ;)
Fit all that in with grad school and running my own PS campaign that gets about 5 hours of prep time minimum each week and you've had my life for the past 7 months. Or the lack thereof ;)
I also happen to be the DM for one of the web monkeys, so I've gotten to see some of the stuff planned for the Planewalker site itself, and I'm pretty excited about it. :D
Does that sate some curiousity for info?
Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
I may be wrong in this, but I thought that while he[Tony D] was interested, he's far far too busy at the moment to honestly take on anything else, probably especially so for what would be charity work since we don't pay.
He's got his own series of books coming out, the Spiderwick Chronicles that he's doing all the illustrations for, as well as other contract work that I imagine will keep him busy for some time. I'd emailed his wife at one point asking about one of his pictures, and I think she made mention that he was rather happily busy at the moment but had very fond memories of his Planescape work.
Nice folks, both of 'em. It'd be cool to actually meet them one day.
And on that note, I'm really hoping to actually go to GenCon next year if I can scrimp and save up till then.
I've got all 3 and they're wonderful... but I don't honestly see how they can be that time consuming. They're pretty much all just pencil and ink sketches. As a Hack illustrator and friend to many "professionals" that amount of work shouldn't take more than a few weeks. Maybe I'm wrong. I know I can take weeks for one piece, but it's not my livelyhood...
I'll follow that up with a, "not gonna work"
look up my e-mail address and we can talk, cause there are much better options, and I'm already seeing to it that they get done.
CHEERS
1) I would want Planescape 3.5 Already, half of the material is published in 3E or 3.5 books, so, it would only need a
Gazetteer to Sigil (see Ravenloft Gazetteers) - usefull for all of us playing Planescape
Gazetteer to the Planes - all things left out from Manual of the Planes (cities, structures, some monsters at the end - I miss modrons). This kind of book could be useful even in a non Planescape-feel game. It could have some sample adventures etc
It would refer to generic places, which could fit regardless of Prime Campaign Setting
Later, different books could describe the details of the godly realms of each campaign setting.
Player's Guide to Planescape - factions, prestige classes, feats, skills, some spells and the philosophy of the game. A last chapter (DM only) could have some secrets of the factions.
Web enhancment providing an index of planescape-relevant entries in the rest of published material
2)I think that all the above could have very good sales (much better than even Book of Exalted Deeds which I have loved)
3)With Wizards encouraging nice (and not so FR-flavored) campaign settings, like Eberron (with subjective alignements), Ghostwalk (dark), and also re-introducing Dragonlance, I cannot see why Planescape is left out of the equation. Most groups who reach high levels go to the planes. So, these books would be necessary
4)A new Planescape RPG like Torment would surely help
5)We, as players, we should accept some changes to the old Material. Yes, that means introducing the Great Wheel to planescape and changing the importance of ethereal plane. Also, that means that the gods should split into various cosmologies (shadow plane connecting all of them). I find it ridiculous that gods who lived side-by-side were not messing with the worlds they affect)
A lot of the Planescape material has made its way into 3rd Edition from WotC products, it's just rather spread out. Sigil wasn't mentioned in more than a paragraph in the Manual of the Planes, and is mentioned as "another planar metropolis" in the section on the city of Union in the Epic Level Handbook (3rd Edition seems to be taking the old 1st Edition concept that extraplanar adventuring is for high-level characters only). The Archdevils and Demon Princes have made their appearances, in all their fully-statted out glory, in the Book of Vile Darkness, and for the first time ever, we have their celestial counterparts now in the Book of Exalted Deeds.
Obviously, there's a great deal of baseline Planescape material in the Manual of the Planes itself, most notably the names of the planes.
The planetouched races (aasimar, tiefling, genasi) have found a "home" in the Forgotten Realms. Bariaur have made their appearance now in the Book of Exalted Deeds. A few of the factions that remained after the events of "Faction War" appeared in a Dragon Magazine article early in 3.0's time as prestige classes.
I admit that it would be nice if WotC would collect all this into one centralized source and make a capped book simply called "Planescape", but then they'd be deluged, most likely, by constant requests for additional material, and before you know it, the Planescape campaign setting would once again be alive and well. This would be great from the perspective of Planescape fans, but from WotC's perspective, since they seem to not want to bring the campaign setting back formally, they're likely to avoid ever publishing such a collected work, at least not until they're close to the end of 3rd Edition's time, as they clean out the closets in what will hopefully be the preparation for 4th Edition (which I personally hope is at least a good six or seven years down the line still).
I think we're going to see a lot more Planescape material in this fall's "Planar Handbook" as well.
So the 3rd Edition material is out there, it just isn't centralized. Maybe someone could convince WotC to do a monthly feature on the planes for the D&D site, like "Mind's Eye" is doing for psionics. There are worse recurring columns to have on the site...
http://www.montecook.com/mpress_Doors_PR1.html