So, I thought I'd see if anyone else is interested in doing this so that we could put our collective minds to work towards integrating the AU rules into Greyhawk.
The most major change that has to be considered, I would guess, is the magic system. This is where I'm really stumbling about blind. I think that one can retain traditional wizards, and even still use sorcerers and divine casters, however the work required to do so seems a little overwhelming. Any thoughts on how to do this?
Other changes seem obvious or easy to incorporate. Giants, for instance, could easily be used in and around Geoff and Sterich, although one would probably have to change their background a little bit.
I personally don't like the idea of faen or sprites as PC races however they could easily be added in to fey areas to add spice and would have some connection to the elven realms.
Classes like the champion, warmain and unfettered fit in to Greyhawk seamlessly and offer some great options for players and DM's. Mage blades are easily justified by having them as a favoured class for elves instead of wizard as they fit quite well. Runethanes also fit dwarves very nicely and I could see this adding a lot of flavour to both dwarven and elven realms.
The oathsworn would probably have to be justified somehow and I haven't read much on them so I can't really say how one would go about it. Magisters are easily placed and would probably simply replace wizards in a lot of areas. Perhaps they could be a Baklunish tradition or an Aerdi one? I don't see restatting some people as magisters being in anyway disruptive to the setting.
Witches would fit fantastically into Greyhawk as there are many instances of such in the world, although their 'blades' might need reworking as staves or something, not sure. Iggwilv would be interesting to see statted up as a 20th-level witch
Totem warriors are perfect for flan areas like the Rovers and one could draw on some of the aspects of the class to be traditions amongst the 'civilized' flan such as those in Tenh and Geoff.
Ceremonial feats would be cool to just add wholesale to every character, as would truenames. In fact, there is a mention in canon of a tradition of a naming ceremony amongst certain people. Maybe some people have 'lost' the knowledge of this ceremony and are Unnamed by default. This would suit more 'civilized' areas once again, where the old traditions have fallen into obscurity.
That's all I can think of for now.
It might not actually be wrong on a moral level, but it does seem very fishy and misleading to me.
Instead of having the class delve into the collective unconscious, most of their abilities are just as easily justified by remembering obscure details about certain things.
For instance, they find a door and need to pick the lock. So they think for a few moments and go, "Hmm... this castle was built by Lord Reginald Aggravin the 1st, if I recall correctly. He used the infamous architect, Kwalish, who had a penchant for using three-stage tumbling locks in doors such as this... let me see, how did one unlock a three-stage tumbling lock again?"
The spell-like abilities could also be justified along these lines but don't really have to be as they can just as easily be spell-like abilities for a sage class. But if doing so, then you could say that things like Sneak Attack is just memory, ie. "Ah, a giant-kin! Fomorian if I'm not mistaken. Their kidneys are located in the aft quarter of their mid-section just below the rib-cage! Yes, there it is!"
So... I'd simply rename the class to 'Sage' and let it be played as one.
Integrating the races and classes wouldn't be impossibe, though, but it would take a lot of clever work, most of which I believe you have already mapped out in your first post.
But after all is said and done, would it still be Greyhawk? Well, it would be your Greyhawk, and really that's all that matters.
Originally posted by jokamachi
Integrating the races and classes wouldn't be impossibe, though, but it would take a lot of clever work, most of which I believe you have already mapped out in your first post.
I don't like the idea of many of the races being integrated into Greyhawk as PC races. New monsters, maybe, and the Verrik could be an interesting race of 'ancients', but otherwise I think they're too far into left-field to be incorporated without spoiling the coherency of the setting.
Originally posted by jokamachi
But after all is said and done, would it still be Greyhawk? Well, it would be your Greyhawk, and really that's all that matters.
I think most of the rules can be incorporated with a little bit of tweaking (like the akashic above) without disrupting the coherency of the setting.
Like magisters, I really don't think it's a big deal to have many people in the setting simply be restatted as magisters. In fact, I think Mordenkainen would make a good magister.
The biggest problem is how to work in the magic system. My personal preference is to replace the PHB system wholesale, and yet still define arcane and divine magics. I don't like the idea of magi casting healing spells and clerics throwing fireballs. It's one of the 'sacred cows' of D&D that would need sorting out. But then, I really don't think it would be difficult to simply write-up a couple of spell lists for divine/arcane casters using the AU spells.
It's just a matter of actually doing it
In fact, this suits Greyhawk very well if you make magisters the 'default' magic-using class instead of wizards, and make wizards actually quite rare since the history of Greyhawk hints towards ancient and powerful magicks being lost to obscurity but still 'out there' to be found.
Suel wizards, some Aerdi scholars, Bakluni elementalists and a few others like Silent Ones or those wizards on the Lendore Isles could be wizards with access to exotic spells, giving them a significant power advantage. The magisters strength would be flexibility and as such could still hold out against a wizard, but wizards are the 'true' magic-users, absolutely and utterly devoted to the study of magic.
You've carved out a niche on this one, Delglath. Show us the way...
Originally posted by xiphias
Heh. I picked up a copy of Monte's new book just the other day and found it to be a very absorbing addition to the RPG market. Seems like it would lend itself to Greyhawk rather well, too, with a bit of tweaking, that is.
Yeah, I feel very much the same way. It adds so many elements that I like that I feel would work well within the Greyhawk setting whilst maintaining the 'feel' of Greyhawk that I'm quite excited by the prospects.
Originally posted by xiphias
You've carved out a niche on this one, Delglath. Show us the way...
Sigh, 'tis the burden of brilliance. I bear it without a thought to myself, of course, and shall endeavour to lead you all to the promised land as best I can... though it'd be nice if y'all could get up off yah butts and lend a hand :D
I mean no offence by that, by the way, I just wish for a different approach.
Essentially my idea would be to incorporate them into the story of the Liberation of Geoff where it details the background of Against the Giants and the reason for why the giants came down from the mountains in the first place.
The modules are specifically geared so that you take on successively more powerful giants, eg. hill giants first, fire giants next, stone giants, storm giants, cloud giants.
However I also seem to recall that giant-kin had a part to play as well. Fomorians and such (although I can't recall specifically and might be wrong), but regardless if they were or not, making AU Giants as giant-kin in Greyhawk, could mean they are much more easily incorporated into the setting. This would mean rewriting their history, but would mean minimal changes to the way they view things. They would not, even remotely, be the masters of the setting, since Greyhawk has always had humans be the dominant species, which is a trait I'm trying to retain.
Imagine this simple background. Firstly, rename the giants as something more appropriate to the setting, since they would not be acting as 'Hu-Charad'. My suggestion would be to have them as Fir-Bolg, as it also fits in nicely with the 'flavour' of Geoff (at least, as it's presented in the Living Greyhawk campaign) as the fir-bolg are celtic in origin.
Secondly, have them as a rare race, scattered across the Flanaess in the places of power as guardians of those places. Ancient cities so old that not even rubble remains and yet they still guard the area as their forebears have throughout the ages. Once, long ago, they were a strong race, and shared the Flanaess with the flan, even during the ages when the flan had great civilizations that were perhaps even grander than those standing today. But something happened to reduce both the flan and the giants to mere nomads and scattered clans respectively. So long ago was this, that not even the giants remember what happened.
During the plot by the cloud giants to establish their own realm, they discovered several clans of fir-bolg in the Hellfurnaces and Crystalmists who guarded relics of a bygone age. Refusing to take part in the hostile intentions of the cloud giants, the cloud giants used their magics to enrage the fir-bolg, changing them from Si-Karan to Chi-Julud.
During this period of wardance, the fir-bolg joined with the other giants and committed atrocities against innocents that they now deeply regret. Some fled back to their places of guardianship and resumed Si-Karan, however others felt a need to atone for their 'sins', and thus now explore the lands in order to set things right.
And thus, you have giants in the campaign world
Tho it was never really explored in any Greyhawk material to date, the setting is full of hints of vastly different magical traditions, and I think the Wizard and Sorceror distinction that 3e gives could be only the start of fully fleshing out the divergement magical paths available to Oerth's arcanists.
You could tie the standard D&D wizard class to Suel mages of the Jasidan tradition, Sorcerors to an elven tradition that relies more on bloodline and emotion than books and study, Monte's AU system could be applied to the Baklunish to give them an odd, alien flavor that is rarely seen in the Flanaess, and use Sovereign Stones naturist "elemental" style for Flan casters.
And btw, these are just examples of one way of slicing the pie, and not really a well thought out or founded classification, I'm not declaring any authority on Flanaess magical traditions.
Each culture would then have its own, unique brand of casters, and you'd never know what to expect from an arcane caster you meet, since she could come from any one of the various traditions.
As "civilized" races too, some of the new offerings seem to fit perfectly into the setting, the example I can conjure up off hand being Sovereign Stone's Pecwae, which in our game have become a sort of elf/halfling mix that are native to the Sea Princes lands and southern Keoland and Yeomanry.
Variety is good, and if for nothing else, d20 gives us that like never before. I didn't much care for the Diamond Thrones setting Monte laid out in AU or the Loerem setting for Sovereign Stone, but as you've been showing, the settings are easily dismissed, leaving a great treasure trove of new material for whatever setting one does like, Greyhawk in our case
Originally posted by Despotrix
Tho it was never really explored in any Greyhawk material to date, the setting is full of hints of vastly different magical traditions, and I think the Wizard and Sorceror distinction that 3e gives could be only the start of fully fleshing out the divergement magical paths available to Oerth's arcanists.
Unfortunately it's an issue of balance. The two systems aren't really compatible, at least not IMO.
Overall, casters in the AU system are weaker, spell-wise, as many of the spells are toned down. The equivalent to Charm Person, for instance, is merely a +10 bonus to reaction checks. The equivalent of Cure Light Wounds does 1d10+1 point per level of the caster in healing, however it does half that amount in sub-dual damage to the caster.
On the flip-side, if you use the PHB spells, then all casters in the AU system become UBER powerful due to their flexibility.
However, if you dump the PHB spells altogether and adopt the AU method, a simple solution of balancing the wizard against the magister (the wizard's equivalent in AU, but different) is to allow the wizard access to exotic spells without needing to take a feat (the magister must take the feat Exotic Spell for every exotic spell he wants). This allows also for the inclusion of flavour spells like Mordenkainen's Disjunction and Bigby's Grasping Hand as they are the exact type of spell that suits the exotic spell description (personalized spells, new spells, rare spells, difficult spells and also slightly more powerful, etc.).
So then you have a situation where the wizard REALLY wants to get out there and find those exotic spells and fill his library, whereas the magister (who doesn't need a travelling spellbook, although it's still adivisable to take it with him, and is already filled with spells), isn't overpowered next to the wizard.
At least, that's my take on the system.
Originally posted by Despotrix
Variety is good, and if for nothing else, d20 gives us that like never before. I didn't much care for the Diamond Thrones setting Monte laid out in AU or the Loerem setting for Sovereign Stone, but as you've been showing, the settings are easily dismissed, leaving a great treasure trove of new material for whatever setting one does like, Greyhawk in our case
Thank you.
I think I'll only endeavour to include the giants as a PC race, though.
The Mojh (dragonmen) could possibly be used if you use the Cult of the Dragon as a GH thing and allow stuff like half-dragon and half-fiend PC's. The verrik could also suit as a race of 'ancients', and would actually be kinda cool to place in the Valley of the Mage as it's secret stewards, but I wouldn't have them be in significant numbers. The faen and sprytes could easily join any sort of fey area you have and could, possibly, be a PC race if you're willing to allow such exotic choices.
At the end of the day, I wouldn't have any other race as a major race in GH, even the mojh. They would be too disruptive to the fabric of the setting to include in any significant way, although some of them make potentially cool monsters
I'm also thinking of adding the Familiarity with Magic ability to both wizards and sorcerers... it only makes sense. Given that the Aspect of Power ability is fairly trivial but very flavourful, I'm thinking of giving the wizard and sorcerer that as well.
Considering I house rule the sorcerer to d6 plus 4 skills a level and a greater skill selection, I'm fairly adamant about only giving them simple spells. However, that said, I'd like to eventually do a write-up on all of this and post it to diamondthrone.com, so I'd still like to discuss how to balance the class out. The idea of giving feats is probably a little too house-rulish to apply, even though I think it could work.
Hya,
I found this peeking around diamondthrone.com, the designers there offer a few ideas for using AU/DT stuff in greyhawk. Not the same stuff mentioned her per se, but some more ideas for incorporating can't hurt
The AU system of magic is cool. You've got simple, complex and exotic spells. Each a little more powerful than the other. So you've three levels of spells within each spell level, ie. simple, complex and exotic 1st level spells, simple, complex and exotic 2nd level spells, etc.
The sorcerer only has access to simple spells since his understanding of magic is intuitive and innate, rather than intellectual and knowledge based.
So a sorcerer will never cast spells as powerful as a wizard or a magi can, since they understand the fundamental basics of magic and can thus manipulate more powerful forces.
And I'm adding the magisters 'aspects of power' to the sorcerer as well. They come in two forms, greater and lesser. They're basically very minor things like glowing eyes or a resonating voice for lesser and permanently floating two inches off the ground or being able to go without food (being sustained solely by the magic within them) for the greater.
The magister gets one lesser and one greater but to reflect the innate power of the sorcerer, I'm giving them two lesser and two greater. One lesser at 5th, the other at 10th, and the first greater at 15th, the second at 20th.
The sorcerer also gains spell templates but does so intuitively. The first spell template (you can still get them through a feat) is at 7th-level and the next at 14th-level. Spell templates are basically a way of changing a spells basic properties to reflect a certain focus, such as the War Template or the Fire Template.
Lastly, just as magi can, the sorcerer can use the spell swapping system presented in AU. Basically this is 3 1st level spells slots can be burnt to a second level spell and vice versa. Doing this for the sorcerer is like using a feat and thus takes a full-round action.
What do you think?
AUGH stands for AU in GH. GH means GreyHawk.
My aim with these rules is to incorporate most of the AU rules into a Greyhawk game whilst still retaining the PHB classes. Part of that aim requires that things remain true to the setting, so that things like wizards casting healing spells and clerics casting fireballs, and litorians having major cities, are avoided. Setting coherency is a priority for this set of rules so any suggestions, whilst most welcome and encouraged, should keep that in mind.
--
AUGH
Class Names and Origin
Magisters are called 'magi' and the singular is 'magus'. They originate from the Baklunish lands but the tradition has spread and become one of the most dominant types of arcane spell caster. This is most likely due to the survival of Baklunish magical traditions after the Twin Cataclysms whereas other traditions were lost or quashed or deemed inferior.
Greenbonds are known as 'shamans' or 'sibyls', depending on gender. The tradition of shamans is most prevalent in the northern flan and even some of the nomads to the northeast. They are often lonely figures who remain aloof from tribes and tribal politics as they see them as being a distraction from what is truly important; the protection and enhancement of life and the connection to the spiritworld.
Witches are known as 'warlocks' or 'witches' depending on gender. Witchery is a flan tradition which has grown up next to druidism as a respected lesser. Most often, witches and warlocks are those who dwell within or close to towns rather than in the wilderness and often take on the mantle of protector of such areas. They function as medicine men and lorekeepers for the community they attach themselves too.
Mageblades
Runethanes
Wizards are the suelish magic tradition. They seek out lost tomes of lore harkening back to the days when the Suel Imperium was at its height. The Silent Ones are believed to be the last true wizards on oerth, and all others are pale imitators seeking lost glories which will never be found.
Sorcerers are from oeridian stock and are looked down on even by their own people these days as the oerids have taken up the more 'superior' form of magic manipulation known as wizardry. Still, sorcerers from all cultures pop up now and then and those few who are recognized may manage to be trained by a sorcerer to learn how to control and increase their power. Otherwise, such people usually fall into the role of adepts and never truly learn of their potential.
--
Magic
All spells from PHB are replaced with those from AU with the exception of those listed as Exotic spells (Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Laughter, Bigby's Crushing Hand, Drawmij's Summons, etc.).
Magisters, mageblades, witches and runethanes no longer have access to positive or negative energy spells. Greenbonds gain access to all positive energy spells.
Arcane casters who want access to Negative or Positive Energy spells can do so by spending a feat (Negative/Positive Energy Caster) which gives access to one spell, whether simple, complex or exotic, much in the same way that the Unique Spell and Exotic Spell feats do.
All Item Creation feats from PHB are replaced with the Item Creation feats from AU.
All rules pertaining to spell slot use, ie. diminished, heightened, etc. can be used by all spell casters.
--
Classes
Wizards
- Gain Familiarity with Magic at 5th-level.
- Can memorize, scribe, copy to a spellbook and create simple, complex and exotic spells without recourse to the feats Exotic Spell or Unique Spell.
- The wizards Bonus Feats list includes all feats required to gain access to templates, Blood as Power, Aid Spellcasting, Attune to Magic Item, Conjure Mastery, Modify Spell, Brandish Magical Might, Energy Mage, Mirror Sight and Tattoed Spell.
- Gains Lesser Aspect of Power at 10th-level.
- Gains Mind Over Matter at 12th-level
- Gains Greater Aspect of Power at 16th-level.
- Necromancers can utilize negative energy spells without recourse to the feat Negative Energy Caster.
Sorcerers
- Gain Familiarity with Magic at 10th-level.
- Can cast and choose to know simple spells.
- Gains Lesser Aspect of Power at 7th and 10th levels.
- Gains Greater Aspect of Power at 14th and 18th levels.
- Gains one spell template at 1st, 9th, and 17th levels.
- Increase Skill points to 4 per level.
Clerics
- Clerics gain Familiarity with Magic at 10th-level.
- Clerics use modified (to AU spells) Domain Spell Lists to determine what spells are available to them. These are now essentially 'spheres'.
- All good clerics have access to all spells with the Positive Energy descriptor and all evil clerics have access to all spells with the Negative Energy Descriptor. Neutral clerics must decide which force they attune to and this must be the same force they choose for turning/commanding undead.
- The extra domain spell slot that a cleric gains can be chosen from the 'Domain' spell that is tied to each sphere. This bonus spell can be memorized in a normal spell slot. It simply reflects the nature of the domain more closely than any other spell and therefore can be memorized one extra time.
Bards
- Gain access to Familiarity with Magic at 12th-level.
- Can cast simple spells.
- Has access to simple positive and negative energy spells.
Paladins
- Can cast simple spells specific to the war, good and law domains as listed for AU.
- Has access to simple positive energy spells.
Rangers
- Can cast simple spells specific to the animal, plant and travel domains as listed for AU.
- Has access to simple positive or negative energy spells depending on alignment.
--
Domains
Most domain powers remain the same, however some grant access to spell templates (for spells within the domain only) as well. They are as follows:
Air (air template), Animal, Chaos (wild template), Death, Destruction, Earth (earth template), Evil (corrupted template), Fire (fire template), Good (blessed template), Healing (subdual template), Knowledge, Law (programmed template), Luck, Magic (eldritch template), Plant, Protection (sanctum template), Strength, Sun, Travel, Trickery, War (war template), Water (water template).
The following lists are 'spheres' of which are attached the domain powers of the same name from the PHB. A cleric picks two of these and thereafter has access to all the spells in either list, freely chosen each day to fill slots as per normal. The 'domain' spell listed for each level can be chosen to fill a regular slot but only a domain spell can fill the domain slot.
To be quite honest, a lot of the spell choices below are stretches at best which is due to the sparse selection of spells in AU. I've made several sacrifices of logic in order to accomodate extra spells so that the cleric's list isn't minute. At the same time, however, for those of you who feel that the cleric was a little too powerful anyway, this is a nice way to redress the balance. Considering that this system uses laden, heightened and diminished versions of spells as well as spell templates, a cleric shouldn't have a problem filling their spell slots with a decent variety of spells. Consider also that the cleric's spell list includes either all positive energy spells or all negative energy spells.
Air
0th: Sphere: Ghost Sound, Scent Bane, Seeker; Domain: Telekinesis (lesser).
1st: Sphere: Shock, Obscuring Mist, Predict Weather, Safe Fall, Scent Tracker; Domain: Wind Churn.
2nd: Sphere: Control Temperature, Scream, Levitate, Silent Sheath; Domain: Gusting Wind.
3rd: Sphere: Arrow Reflection, Attack from Within (electricity), Protection from Elements (electricity), Summon Minor Elemental (lesser, air only), Water Breathing; Domain: Flight.
4th: Sphere: Telekinesis (greater), Tongues; Domain: Elemental Trap (electricity).
5th: Sphere: Massive Blade; Domain: Summon Minor Elemental (greater, air only).
6th: Sphere: Wall of Sound; Domain: Shape Element (air).
7th: Sphere: Immunity (lesser, electricity), Summon Major Elemental (lesser, air only), Ride the Lightning; Domain: Control Weather.
8th: Sphere: Telekinetic Shield; Domain: Whirlwind.
9th: Sphere: Immunity (greater, electricity), Call Guardian (will'o'wisp); Domain: Summon Major Elemental (greater, air only).
Animal
0th: Sphere: Contact, Scent Bane, Sense Thoughts; Domain: Detect Creature.
1st: Sphere: Acrobatics, Precise Vision, Scent Tracker, Directed Charm (animals only); Domain: Conjure Energy Creature I.
2nd: Sphere: Ability Boost, Beastskin (lesser), Protective Charm, Subtle Steps, Read Mind (animals only); Domain: Conjure Energy Creature II.
3rd: Sphere: Spirit of Prowess, Flight, Water Breathing; Domain: Conjure Energy Creature III.
4th: Sphere: Locate Creature, Tongues (animals only), Telepathy (animals only); Domain: Conjure Energy Creature IV.
5th: Sphere: Dominate (lesser, animals only); Domain: Conjure Energy Creature V.
6th: Sphere: Ability Boost, Beastskin (greater), Blindsight, Call Guardian (lesser, animal only); Domain: Conjure Energy Creature VI.
7th: Sphere: Song of Paralysis (animals only); Domain: Conjure Energy Creature VII.
8th: Sphere: Dominate (greater, animals only), Primal Release; Domain: Conjure Energy Creature VIII.
9th: Sphere: Call Guardian (greater, animals only), Shapechange (animals only); Domain: Conjure Energy Creature IX.
Chaos
0th: Sphere: ; Domain: .
1st: Sphere: ; Domain: .
2nd: Sphere: ; Domain: .
3rd: Sphere: ; Domain: .
4th: Sphere: ; Domain: .
5th: Sphere: ; Domain: .
6th: Sphere: ; Domain: .
7th: Sphere: ; Domain: .
8th: Sphere: ; Domain: .
9th: Sphere: ; Domain: .
Death
0th: Sphere: Detect Disease, Detect Poison; Domain: Touch of Nausea.
1st: Sphere: Tears of Pain, Touch of Fear, Touch of Pain; Domain: Touch of Disruption.
2nd: Sphere: Destructive Grip, Gentle Repose; Domain: Advance Poison.
3rd: Sphere: Hand of Battle, Venomblade; Domain: Steal Health.
4th: Sphere: Gaze of Terror, Curse of Vengeance; Domain: Animate the Dead (lesser).
5th: Sphere: Enfeebled Mind, Drain Away Speed; Domain: Control Undead.
6th: Sphere: Bloodblade, Discorporate, Protect Soul, Rouse Undead Spirit; Domain: Animate the Dead (greater).
7th: Sphere: Incorporeal Form; Domain: Call Undead.
8th: Sphere: Wave of Death; Domain: Animate Undead Legion.
9th: Sphere: Trap the Soul; Domain: Consume Soul.
--
Feats
Ceremonial and Talent feats are used as per AU rules for all classes and characters.
Traditionally, magi (the magister class in AU) were baklunish in origin, sorcerers were oeridien, witches/warlocks were flan, mageblades elven, runethanes dwarven and wizards suel.
When you think about it, this makes a sortof sense as the differences in casting seem to reflect the differences in the races (at least, as I perceive them).
The magi are more flexible than a wizard but are still scholarly and have an almost priestly nature, whereas the wizard focuses solely on the technical side of magic and so although more restricted in their casting, are also more proficient with spells.
Sorcerers are innate casters, born to their station and though they lack variety, they make up for it in sponteneity and power. Witches/warlocks are also innate casters but are far more focused and nature oriented.
Mageblades are almost perfect for elves (and make for a great replacement for the wizard as a favoured class) given that they're essentially a mage/fighter. The same can be said of the runethane, although they fit dwarves even better than mageblades fit elves.
Just some thoughts.
Originally posted by Coldpenguin625
As a recent AU buyer, I have to say this is a pretty kewl thread. Keep posting what you think and I'll keep reading!
Thanks
Just updated the above... that'll be my primary post from now on, just updating that until it's finished. I'll bump the thread every so often if nobody else responds to my ideas or discusses them, but otherwise you'll have to thread mine for the thread from now on.
Originally posted by Mach2.5
I really like your ideas so far Delgath.
Thanks.
Originally posted by Coldpenguin625
Wish I could show off my knowledge of AU by adding to this but as I have little knowledge of AU that won't happen. So keep it up, just one question; what are you going to do with the Greenbond and the Druid? Maybe make one the "Old Faith" and another a different kind of Druid?
Heh, I only bought the book a week ago :D
Greenbonds, in my interpretation, are shamans. They're animists which suits the shaman quite well. I'm planning on creating an alternative for evil humanoids to have as well.
As far as being a part of the old faith, I view the flan as being merely the collective name for all the aborigines of the Flanaess before the migrations. Therefore there are distinct cultural differences between the flan of the north and the flan of the south and the flan of Tenh/Geoff.
Shamans have no greater network or any committed organizational structure. They are in tune with life itself, what greater connection is there?
Druids are part of the southern flan tradition, IMO. They are interested in power and so formed heirarchies to dominate over all regions of the flanaess. Originally, they were only a small tradition of the flan in the Sheldomar.
It was found that having access to only two 'spheres' limited the clerics spell selection too severely. On the suggestion of one of my players, I've changed it so that now the cleric has access to all the domain/spheres of a god for the purposes of spell selection.
Let me break it down for you.
In the case of Trithereon, for instance, he grants access to the following domains: Chaos, Good, Protection, Retribution & Summoning.
In this system, each domain now has a selection of spells in each spell level. These spells are a reflection of the purpose of the domain, ie. spells that create chaos or enable the creation of chaos or break laws or social mores or preconceived notions or prevent one from being free, are part of the chaos domain. An example follows:
Chaos
0th: Scent Bane, Minor Illusion, Ghost Sound, Raiment; Domain: Disorient.
1st: Animate Weapon, Glamour, Illusury Object (lesser), Obscuring Mist, Veil of Darkness, Illusury Creature (lesser), Open Lock, Touch of Disruption, Water Roil, Wind Churn; Domain: Distraction.
2nd: Shatter, Undetectable Alignment, Cloak of Darkness, Gusting Wind, Muddy Ground, Subtle Steps, Bypass Ward, Silent Sheath, Dazzlesphere, Sorcerous Guise; Domain: Align Weapon.
3rd: Illusury Object (greater), Whisper of Madness, Arrow Reflection, Illusury Creature (greater), Invisibility, Suggestion; Domain: Unknown.
4th: Stamina to Defense, Strength to Strike, Inner World, Modify Memory; Domain: Freedom of Movement.
5th: Spell Resistance, Burst of Healing; Domain: Dispel Law.
6th: Animate Objects, Teleport Other; Domain: Discorporate.
7th: Curse of the Chaotic Mind, Spell Turning, Multiple Personalities; Domain: Word of Chaos.
8th: Primal Release, Whirlwind; Domain: Cloak of Chaos.
9th: Gate (to limbo); Domain: Shapechange.
From the god's selection, the cleric chooses two domains powers and receives them as per normal. The cleric can only choose spells, however, from the gods domains, but can now choose from any those domains, not just the two he chose as gaining his special domain powers from. The one exception is the domain spell. The domain spell slot can only be filled by one of the domain spells from one of the two domain powers he has chosen.
This still maintains the purpose of limitation, that being to greater realize the differences between clerics of one god from another, whilst giving the cleric a decent selection of spells to choose from.
So at least magisters do compare nicely to wizards. Well built clerics and druids still overshadow their AU counterpart (greenbond) and the 7 spell level classes (mage blade, witches, runethanes) are still a bit on the weaker side (especially compared to PHBs 9 spell level medium BAB classes of clerics and druids). So there is a balance problem, but it does not lie between magisters and wizards, but between clerics & druids and other spellcasters. But that is old news and people have been living with that for ages rather comfortably so in my opinion that balance problem does not demand any special actions when integrating AU into GH.
My point: I think you have smoother sailing in this integration process than you thought. Do follow the advice of Despotrix, I liked its flavor.
Sisyfos
Originally posted by Iksander
From the god's selection, the cleric chooses two domains powers and receives them as per normal. The cleric can only choose spells, however, from the gods domains, but can now choose from any those domains, not just the two he chose as gaining his special domain powers from. The one exception is the domain spell. The domain spell slot can only be filled by one of the domain spells from one of the two domain powers he has chosen.
This still maintains the purpose of limitation, that being to greater realize the differences between clerics of one god from another, whilst giving the cleric a decent selection of spells to choose from.
*laughs* Great minds do think alike it seems. I posted the very same idea on the KoK boards an eternity ago.
And at the time people complained it would be too limited a selection *sigh*
Ah well, can't please everybody...
Originally posted by Sisyfos
After looking at the spell selections and the spell templates from AU I do disagree though. The ability to heighten spells, diminish spells and apply spell templates to spells does give AU casters an edge (especially magisters) which raises them on par with PHB's casters.
Like was said in the write-up above (but perhaps not very clear as this was done for me and my players without thinking of explaining many of the finer details), ALL spell casters can heighten, laden and diminish spells and all casters can take templates.
By limiting the spell selection of clerics and wizards and limiting sorcerers to simple spells, I think the balance between AU and PHB spell casting classes is maintained.