As far as other slaves trades both the Pomarj and The Scarlet Brotherhood (Thillorian Peninsula) are all involved in the slave trades. If you would like further info on these slave trades you can try RPGnow.com for a PDF format on The Slave Lords a GH specific product or you could look for information on the canonfire website above.
Slavery is not economically viable in most of the Flanaess. There is simply too much available land for the population, and no accessible or abundant source, to make slavery feasiable throughout the majority of the lands. Some fringe or excessively Evil areas will pursue it because their cultures and economies can support it, but the majority of the central lands will not find it worth the effort. What few slaves exist in them will either be recent arrivals with immigrants, holdovers from earlier times that have never managed to be freed, or people enslaved for various crimes, and whose status is not hereditary.
Further, with the losses of the Greyhawk Wars and the increased need for hard coin, serfs and similar classes bound to the land or a liege will be in decline, as free men pay more taxes.
Sea Princes is a slave nation essentially. Thillonrian barbarians raid and might take slaves as well. Stonehold and the occupying forces of Tenh keep slaves. Ull probably does as well and I seem to recall there was something about a gladatorial slave trade there as well, although that may or may not be canon. The giants in Geoff most certainly have slaves.
*****ula
What a typo!I think "peninsula" has two Ns, friend. ;)
For a fan's elaborations of the Pale, sign-onto Canonfire, goto Downloads : Oerth Journal : Next Page (at the bottom of the screen), and then click on both Issue 12 (for "Wintershiven, a Traveler’s Memoir" by Issak Haywood) and Issue 14 (for "The Paganhammer, a vignette" and "The Valorous League of Blindness" -- both by Isaak Haywood). Canonfire's homepage is http://www.canonfire.com/htmlnew/index.php.
Issak has devoted his GH interests into the Theocracy and is presently working on a set of articles detailing its history.
http://www.theocracyofthepale.com is the link for the Pale Triad's website, though if you are thinking of running a home game I would recommend
http://www.thepale.org
as the RPGA Pale has somewhat deviated from canon by nearly killing nearly all the major NPCs of the LGG as part of a plot that as far as I can tell is putting the Theocracy of the Pale on the path towards becoming a Lawful Good nation of Pholtus.
Apparently Tillit died of wounds inflicted by a demonic ally of Iuz (shame - I'd have loved to have seen a Playing Pieces writeup on Tillit in the LGJ), the 'lawful good' party contender for leadership was killed (apparently the Pale politics sound a lot like a US and British contemporary politics) and the lawful neutral one candidate an ephininy and declared himself Lawful Good when he was made Prelate.
The Triad have their own logic and arguing about it is like aruging with a Pholtan... :D
Personally I think that it would be an ill-conceived plotline, making the Pale more like Veluna and that would affect the dynamics of the entire Flanaess if there were another GH War like Sargent hinted.
Other things that they've done is AFAIK made it that prostitution is legal in the Pale as long as you're not married (??), there is an arcanist guild and an arcane advisor to the Prelate, and that it is ok to wander round with another deity's holy symbol as long as you don't preach (something from Fate of Istus, though I'd have ruled the Wars made such indulgences a thing of the past). I'm not even sure if they burn heretics any more or if they pan that off as some evil rumour.
This isn't a bash at the Pale Triad or players BTW - I know how hard it is to run a region - but my vision of the Pale was obviously very different from theres and I'd be interested to know people's visions on the Pale.
For instance I do not think the Pale has many Lawful Good clerics - certainly not enough to warrant a 'political party' within the Basilica at Wintershiven. FtA lists all Pholtan clerics as Lawful Neutral within the Pale, and I know Gary Holian didn't declare race or alignment for the two 'party leaders', Maxamillian Thace and Basellet (I'm going from memory here).
My view of the Pale was always somewhat grimmer - for instance I always saw Pilgrim's Gate as a sinister brainwashing facility for deviant but saveable heretics captured across the Flanaess (like, say King Lynwerd), and the only city in the Pale where any non-Pholtan could tred without fear of being burnt alive. Strangers who wished to enter the Pale had to undergo many arduous tests of faith within its halls.
Anyroads, my 2p (or 4 cents). I love the Pale and wrote a kind of Return to module for Living Greyhawk based on the Sin Eater mini module from From the Ashes. It's still orderable I think if you play Living Greyhawk, though it wasn't as successful as I thought, and it might be thought too political. ;) ;)
Stuart
In my view it would be a "loss" to see them move to far in the direction of LG.
While some DMs may prefer to reject Lakofka's assertion, I'd prefer to keep incorporate that fact. I've enjoyed Issak's elaborations a lot and am somewhat dissatisfied (from a DM's perspective) with the LGH Pale Triad's design.
Thanks Stuart for the summary of the Pale Triad's decisions: I reviewed their website again and read their accounts. I've finally started playing LGH and very much enjoyed my first set of adventures, but reading about the Pale in LGH is significantly less compelling than surfing the LGH Onnwal website...
As a DM, I'd keep the Pale predominately LN and further distinguish it by detailing the fallen (but partially resuscitated) Prelacy of Almor. Were the Pholtans strong there? What god did the old Prelate worship? Was it Sol (Pelor)?
On Greytalk, Paul Looby described how the Pale had been portrayed in the epic home campaign in which he played. That version sounded compelling. It reminded me of images of the Spanish Inquisition and Gothic cathedrals -- also the illustrations for Warhammer Fantasy Role Play (and now those of Privateer Press's Iron Kingdoms & Warmachine).
I don't understand the "parties" named by the LGH Pale Triad. Mostly they strike me as jokes -- perhaps intended to be tongue-in-cheek. Both for actual political reasons and also for aesthetic (setting design) reasons, I dislike naming a "Progressive" party in the Theocracy of the Pale. Politically, such usage diffuses the term's meaning. Aesthetically it seems anachronistic and jarring.
---I've gotta stop now but will attempt to edit this post later tonight.
Originally posted by Tizoc
As a DM, I'd keep the Pale predominately LN and further distinguish it by detailing the fallen (but partially resuscitated) Prelacy of Almor. Were the Pholtans strong there? What god did the old Prelate worship? Was it Sol (Pelor)?
We (the Innspa / Adri - Triad) believe, that the old Prelates of Almor were both followers of Heironeous and Pholtus. And as it was established Gary Holian through LGG and LGJ #20 there were some believers of Sol (Pelor) as well (though I must admit I don't like that view very much!).
We even established a former Prelate, that survived the destruction of Almor. It is the predecessor of Kevont: Anarkin (first and only mentioned in Dragon # 65). As this was continuity problem in official canon (Prelate Kevont being head of state in CY 576 (Original WOG-Box), Anarkin being Prelate in CY 578 (according to Dragon # 65 and Kevont being Prelate by the time of Greyhawk Wars (FtA and following sources)), we had to come up with a solution. So we decided, that there was some kind of church council that has members from both the Heironean and and the Pholtan church (and maybe some more Good and Lawful aligned gods). That council elected a prelate for 4 years. After that time the council elected a new prelate from another church. As both the Heironeans and the Pholtans were the strongest in the council usually the prelate was a member of either church and was re-elected as soon as possible (that is after four years)...
IMHO Pelor and Heironeous (from Ivid - there are definitely Pelorian paladins from Apolled IIRC) would be the dominant religions. I never saw Kevont as a Heironean, mainly as he appointed Osson (who was definitely a Heironean) commander of the armies, whilst he stayed at home. Not very Heironean, but certainly wise. ;)
Where is it people keep getting Pholtus from in canon?
Hopefully a writeup of Chathold will be appearing on the Living Greyhawk website this year, which will be suitably vague in regards to the Almorian religion as well! ;)
Stuart
Originally posted by skerrigan
Ah yes - the old hot potato of Almor's religion. It seems the Nyrondese, Innspa triads and Erik/Gary have differing ideas which religion was dominant, and yet nothing concrete has ever been seen print from either of these groups.
Well if our own Gazetteer and website don't count as printed, then of course You're right! ;)
IMHO Pelor and Heironeous (from Ivid - there are definitely Pelorian paladins from Apolled IIRC) would be the dominant religions. I never saw Kevont as a Heironean, mainly as he appointed Osson (who was definitely a Heironean) commander of the armies, whilst he stayed at home. Not very Heironean, but certainly wise. ;)
That's why we made him Pholtan. As far as I remember he was described as LN in an old source.
Where is it people keep getting Pholtus from in canon?
Old entries for Almor described dominant alignement as LN, so that fits Heironeous and Pholtus but certainly not Pelor. So I believe Pelor existed as a minor faith only... Besides that H. and Ph. are of Oeridian origin and P. of Flan origin. Almor was described as a mix of Oeridian and Suel blood mainly, with only some minor Flan influences (at least as far as I remember)...
Hopefully a writeup of Chathold will be appearing on the Living Greyhawk website this year, which will be suitably vague in regards to the Almorian religion as well! ;)
I hope that, too (specially regarding the vagueness of such an article...).
'till we meet in the Adri
Frank Roters aka Lagrange
Stuart
Originally posted by skerrigan
Sorry Frank - what is the URL of the English version of the Innspa Gazetteer?
Stuart
;) There is none! The whole Gazetteer only exists in German...
And we only have a condensed english version on our hp (www.livinggreyhawk.de), that's not discussing that aspect in depth, but You can find hints in the basic timeline presented there.
It also increases the risk that future canon will overrule this IMHO.
As I understand it Anarkin was a Heironean, Kevont was a Pholtan (though I always had him pegged as a Pelorian).
The only sources of info on Kevont were
Greyhawk Adventures - 13,19
Original Boxed Set Book 1 - 18
Original Boxed Set Glossography - 17
none of which gave him a religion or alignment IIRC.
Stuart
Originally posted by skerrigan
As I understand it Anarkin was a Heironean, Kevont was a Pholtan (though I always had him pegged as a Pelorian).
That's our view of it!
The only sources of info on Kevont were
Greyhawk Adventures - 13,19
Original Boxed Set Book 1 - 18
Original Boxed Set Glossography - 17
none of which gave him a religion or alignment IIRC.
You're right. It was my fault, it just says that he was a cleric. But those sources gave no hint for Kevont being a follower of Pholtus either ;)
And of course, if You look up WoG Glossography pg. 31, you could see that the most common alignments for Almor were LN and LG. So a cleric of a lawful god fits much better than one of a neutral god. I think, that is where most people get the impression from, that Kevont was either pholtan or heironean...