Nations are generally ruled by the dominant subrace of the kingdom, with others filling minority roles under them, with few positions of power. Keoland, for example, would be mostly Suel south of Niole Dra, mostly Oeridian north of the capitol, and mostly Flan in the westward hinterlands. Suel and Oeridians hold seats of power, with Flan boasting but petty barons. One reason the nation has been so peaceful to its neighbors over the years is the constant tug of war between the Suel and Oeridians such that few kings would enjoy a unified nation. The Flan are always fomenting rebellion (much like Scotland against England), and military resources have always drained military resources of the powerful dukes along the Sheldomar to keep their minor provinces along the Good Hills in line.
Pure racial groups do exist. Some people, especially nobles and the upper classes, may resist interbreeding. This is because their nobility is often tied to a sense of heritage and bloodlines. So some, like the Urnst and Keolandish nobles, take great pride in being primarily Suel. The ex-Aerdy states favor as pure Oeridian as possible. The (exiled) Tenhas are pure Flan.
Also, consider that peasants are not as mobile as the noble, merchant or adventurer classes. They can live in the same villages for centuries, and many do. People are clannish, and intermarriage may not be as common as one might expect, except in places where two ethnic groups specifically merged heavily. I have friends whose parents don't want them marrying outside their own nationality.
The Scarelt Brotherhood, is openly racist. The Frost, Snow and Ice barbarians maintain ethnic purity mostly through isolation.
Distant races like the Touv hae not yet had a chance to mix much (except with the Olman).
The point is that you only have to play up the ethnic thing as much as you like, but it adds a sense of realism to the setting.
First, the Kingdom of Keoland was founded in -342 CY. That is 935 years of cultural and racial integration. To expect purity of blood after that time is simply unrealistic. If you can give me any example of a region in which two or more groups have occupied since approximately 1068 on earth, I would be more than willing to accept the possibility. As it is, it is really not likely on a large scale.
Second, I'm not really sure how you consider the Kingdom of Keoland to be peaceful. It underwent a significant expansion from it's founding in -342 CY until the beginning of the Slumbering in 49 CY. It then underwent another surge during the Tavish era from 287 CY until the ascension of Nyhan IV in 488 CY.
That is 391 years of the "first empire, and 201 years of the "second empire, a total of 592 years of the Kingdom's 935 years in existence.
Third, you are partially correct in regards to the stability of the Kingdom. The Oeridian descended nobility provides a check on the competing Suel Royal Houses. By shifting between the expansionist Rhola and the Isolationist Neheli, the Kingdom is kept stable. It won't pursue expansionist policies after they have obviously failed, and it won't be stuck in an endless state of introspection no matter how much internal progress it leads to (Which I will add is a subtext of "The Slumbering" that is easily missed. With 238 years of nothing but internal development, that period was a major economic and technological renaissance for the region. Something other nations have not had.)
Fourth, the Flan simply do not have any degree of power as you suggest. Their numbers are too low for them to achieve that sort of significance. Further, bear in mind that the Suel and Oeridians of Keoland treated (and continue to treat) the Flan of the Sheldomar overwhelmingly better than anyone else has. They freed them from the original Suel migrants, helped them recover after Vecna died, and included them as citizens within the Kingdom. Adding absorbtion through intermarriage, and the Flan are an afterthought. While they might have a racial and cultural "heritage" that can be appealed to at times, it is more one of convienience than reality.
So overall, it is more appropriate to talk of a "Keoish" or "Sheldomar" race of humans, than of Suel, Oeridians, or Flan in the area.
WE don't think this way because modern culture is mostly nationalistic, not ethno-centric. But, for example, many Belgians and some Dutch consciously self-identify as Flemish rather than Belgian or Dutch, and they are in fact members of those ethnic groups. Certain groups, espcially as you move into Eastern Europe and across into Asia have remained ethnically distinct for centuries, despite countless cycles of war and conquest. Heck, certain ethnic Jews belonging to ultra-orthodox sects that frown on intermarriage are genetically consistent with genetic fragments dating to ancient times.
This is not to say races don't mix. Many do, especially in cultures dominated by trade. But mixing is often more of an urban phenomenon. You will notice that ethnically pure groups in the real world tend to either consciously self-isolate, or they are in geographic locations that don't favor much traffic, like the various mountainous regions of Europe and Asia, which were away from water lanes or major trade roads.
In Keoland you would likely see this phenomenon not least because the Oeridians didn't remain long or strongly in this part of the Flanaess. Following the call of their gods to push eastward across the continent, the bulk of the Oeridians continued onwards. This is why the Aerdy state was always stronger on the other side of the Flanaess, with Furyondy being it's truly westernmost extent. Ironically, Keoland is off the main migration once the early centuries passed.
That said, I agree that to some extent the Keolandish are mixed, which is why you will note that they have their own dialect. But again that will vary heavily depending on where in Keoland you are. The cities are far more likely to be mixed than the rural regions, where life is less quick to change and external contact less prevalent. Just because the Suel and Flan agreed to share the valley doesn't mean they started interbreeding eagerly. Nobility in particular would have resisted that trend as much as possible.
We're also subject to defintion here. A Scarlet Brotherhood member would certainly not consider the Keolandish to be "true" Suel". But as with any kind of racial mixing, after a while the majority blood dominates. If someone is 75% Suel and 25% Flan than for the most part they'll probably be consistent with Suel, save perhaps for irregular hair, skin and eye tones. But a Brotherhood type would consider them a mongrel.
In the end it is likely vary greatly, driven entirely by location. If you choose to worry about it that much.
Yes, some few fringe groups will remain separate. But not on the scale to keep largescale groups of racially pure groups.
Adding to that the isolation of those groups as you note, and looking at the Flanaess, we can see it is nearly impossible in most lands, the Sheldomar in particular. With two major rivers, navigable for most of their length, with the great movements of armies during the past, with the near total unification of the entire valley for so many years, near complete mixing is virtually guaranteed.
As for the migration pattern, look at it again. The Oeridians that moved into the Sheldomar did not move on, but stayed. Further, given the date of the demise of Vecna, it is equally obvious that the Oeridians who went into the Sheldomar were near the last of the migrants, not the first.
As for the eagerness with which interbreeding is embraced, I think you are mistaken. Unless a group posesses very extreme taboos, most members of such groups take to exogamous marriage quite readily.
Further, I do except the nobility from this general pattern. But as the noblity comprise such a small portion of the population, I don't consider them indicative of the population mix as a whole. However, don't discount the use of marriage as a means of control. Giving a daughter to a "foreigner", is a very effective means of making them into allies, particularly over extended periods of time. So even the nobility will gradually mix, except perhaps for certain specific lines.
The book says they are well blended between Suel and Oeridian, with the exception of nobility and other closed circles. There is no talk of Keoland under the races chapter in relation to Oeridians or Suel. The kingdom seems to have one unified language, Keolandish, which suggests more intermixing. The Path of History tell us that Keoland is the most successful union of Suel and Oeridians in the Flaneass. The popular religions are a mix of Oeridian, Suel, and Common gods. The Sheldomar and Javan Rivers are very navigable and would allow relatively easy internal migrations. Given 900 years or so, one would expect a fairly homogenous people. Historically, Oeridians and Baklunes lived near each other. Their language holds many common derivitives, and both were a nomadic people (at least the northern Baklunes). Thus, the Oeridians seem to be a people that were accustomed to mixing with their neighbors before entering the Sheldomar.
In short, I think you have the better argument, Samwise. I am still interested in how everyone treats the various sub-races of humankind. I tend to think that there is a cultural difference from one part of Keoland to another, for it is some 600 miles from Gradsul to the Rushmoors. The culture of those to the south and along the Sheldomar mostly derived from Suel culture, and those to the north and central lands mostly derived from Oeridian culture, with some Flan on the western fringes. I have been moved to agree with more intermingling than I previously accepted, such than Pluffet Smedger could record the Keolanders as a unified people.
Originally posted by OleOneEye
In short, I think you have the better argument, Samwise. I am still interested in how everyone treats the various sub-races of humankind.
Thanks.
Given the amount of time I spent hashing it out with various people in the GreyTALK chat, plus all the work I did writing backround for LG based on that view, I hope people will see it as the most reasonable explanation.
But one additional element.
The "original" Pluffet Smedger was writing as a member of a particular society. As such, he missed that not only is Keoland once culture, but most of the Sheldomar is one culture. Keoland, the Yeomanry, Sterich, Geoff, the Uleks, and Gran March all have one basic human culture. It is modified by the usual regional factors, much as in a real world nation of such size, and modified further by the number and power of local demi-human population, but overall it will be reconizable by any observer as a single culture. Bissel is close, but has been affected by Furyondy-Veluna and Ket. The Hold of the Sea Princes is also very close, but affected by the long separation.
We play them, noting the particular human race on our PC sheets. Almost all of our campiagning occurs in Verbobonc. So we have a lot of Oeridian PCs. And we treat and play them as the tough warriors they have been historically - meaning, they are usually straight-up Fighters. Our players usually play Oeridians with a of of tolerance, except for the Suel. They usually play with a little suspicion regarding Sueloise PCs and NPCs.
We also have and have had a lot of Flan PCs. They play the total array of classes, except monks. Generally, we have a lot of Rogue, Rangers and Druid PCs who are Flannae. They have better relationships with Elves and are generally the more trusted of the human races. Often, a Flan will experience disrespect or minor persecution at the hands of less edified Oeridians or Suel PCs and NPCs.
We do pay attention to detail regarding the sub races. It adds considerable tension, flavor, perspective, etc. While it's not necessary to consider the human sub-races, we have always enjoyed the minor prejudices, intrigues and rivalries bantered by the respective human sub races in Greyhawk.
How do they view other human sub-races that come to their island?
What precisely is their attitude towards the elves of Lendore Isle?
What about towards half-elves? It is reasonable to expect that some interbreeding with elves has been going on over the years. Is it common? Are half-elves outcast? Or, have they become accepted members of society?
Oh, yeah, how do you think they'd treat a dwarf from the Principality of Ulek?
All demi-humans seem reasonably well integrated on the island, so I doubt they would be terribly outraged by any appearing, or by half-elves.
I suspect they would regard the Elves of the northern islands with a mix of fear, respect, and distaste, the common emotions felt by a group towards a stronger neighbor they know can whomp them at will but never really bothers with them in any manner.
(The humans of Lendore island insist they are relevant, the Elves of the north wonder who is talking, then just smile benignly and condescendingly, and walk away while the humans fume.)
Suel: Duke, Jarl
Flan: Earl, Ataman
Oeridian: Baron, Count, Graf, Marquis
Baklune: Sheik, Bey, Dey, Shah, Pashah, Padishah, Amir, Emir, Sultan
Golden Horde: Khan, Ilkhan, Orakhan, Tarkhan, Kha-khan
Suel and Baklunes are natural city builders. They built cities in their colonization of the Flaneass.
Oeridians were slow to accept sedentary life, used to being nomads. They originally built small homlets and villages. Protection of such small sites necessitated the building of castles, and the Oeridians are the wellspring of the great castles we see today.
Flan rarely built any permanent structures. It is only after years of copying the more "advanced" subraces that they were to build castles and cities. None of these were as grand as in other lands.
The Golden Horde still doesn't build permanent structures, preferring the nomadic life.
Suel: Duke, Jarl"
Fasstal also.
When the Thillonrian Suel were united way back their leader's title was Fasstal. The Cruski king retains the title, but can't enforce it.
Interestingly - the Herzog of the South Province had among his myriad subtitles - Fasstal of Ahlissa. This, I suspect, might have come from the Suel House of Zelrad who settled those parts before the Aerdi juggernaut squished them flat.
"Golden Horde: Khan, Ilkhan, Orakhan, Tarkhan, Kha-khan"
Ahem - Brazen Horde... ;)
As for the Flan not building permenant structures - don't believe the Oeridian propaganda.
Tostenca (GH Adventures), Sulm, Itar (both Rary the Traitor and the LGJ), Veralos (LGJ) and Ehlissa and its capital Karnosa (LGJ) are all examples of pre-Migrations Flan permanent settlements/realms. Of course scholars in the "present day" Flanaess don't remember them because they're either in remote places, had the unfortunate habit of succumbing to nasty curses or were razed by the Oerids and Suel on their way through.
Paul
Jarl/Earl - Earl is a linguistic variation of Jarl.
Count/Graf/Marquis - Count is an Anglicized version of a Latin word. Graf is German. Marquis is an Francacized version of a German word.
Faastal/Jarl - How these could both be Suel is beyond me, but they appear to be.
Overall, I would suggest either completely redoing the titles by assuming the original titles were all converted to Nyrondese equivalents by Pluffet Smedger in the first place, or not worrying all that much about which title comes from which race.
Taking Lassiviren's suggestion (in the last post on the page), I post my reply in this, the Human Subraces thread, which featured an interesting discussion of how different DMs utilize the so-called "human subraces" of the Flanaess.
As long-time Greytalkers know, I have an especial interest in the concept of race. Because of personal experiences in the United States, I've dedicated a significant portion of my academic time to studying race, and at times I consider the Greyhawk campaign setting in light of what I've learned.
Summarized, my premise is that role-playing can involve conceptions of human difference that are fundamentally different than those that have marked human history on Earth. Since role-playing is the hobby of the imagination, the fantastic settings we create can utilize different bases for human interaction -- while drawing upon Earth's history. In this endeavor I follow writers like Ursula K. Le Guin. Among other things, her novel, The Left Hand of Darkness, describes human interactions based upon a fundamentally different premise than the Earthly norm of two sexes and two genders.
After responding to Samwise's summary of the "Neheli sacrilege," which is used in LGH's version of Keoland, I indicated my ambivalence about using human races in Greyhawk campaigns set in the late 6th century CY but noted that several LGH regions use the names of the ancient human groups to describe character backgrounds in the LGH campaign, which is set in the 590s CY.
Woesinger, of the Onnwal Triad, responded with a convincing rationale why the terms are used in strife-torn Onnwal. Samwise responded with similar nuance and then asked:
However, I must question why you consider this so unusual. Such racial politics are quite common even after a bit over 5 centuries in the US. While I would expect them to be less in the Flanaess, particularly in areas where it is declared that different races combined completely, it is still going to be an issue for some.
My answer involves two main parts. First, I argue that race on Oerth lacks the centrality it holds on Earth. Second, I argue that the millennium since the Great Migrations has perpetuated conditions that maintained race as relatively peripheral in importance to human relationships. For both of my points, I draw upon primary writers for the setting, Gary Gygax and Carl Sargent. Ultimately, I argue that race on Oerth is not merely less important than on Earth but instead is fundamentally different, even if we use the same English word to name it.
In the 1983 World of Greyhawk: Fantasy Game Setting boxed set, the Guide to the World of Greyhawk includes a brief but very important chapter entitled the "Characteristics of the Races Inhabiting the Flanaess." Id. at 13. The introductory sentence states that "[t]here are few pure racial groups extant on the Flanaess" and then specifies the various "mixtures" as well as the relatively few places of "racial purity" in the Flanaess at the end of the 6th century CY. It includes a great table that has unfortunately never been republished (although the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer incorporates this information into its entries for the "Realms of the Flanaess."
Gygax's original description presents a fantastic array of humanity with the races not at all of this Earth. Rather, Gygax draws upon Earthly history, connecting improbable parts, and creating a fantasy game setting.
From these few pages, I base my argument that race in the Flanaess does not hold the centrality that it has on Earth.
My second argument is based upon the 1992 From the Ashes boxed set. In the Atlas of the Flanaess, Sargent starts "The Peoples of the Lands" section of the "Cyclopedia" chapter by affirming that "few pure racial groups are found [in the Flanaess] now." Id. at 11. In Sargent's version of Greyhawk, anything like racially pure groups of humans are peripheral. Sargent ends his introduction to this section by stating, "In the central Flanaess in particular, little attention is paid to skin color or racial ancestry ... Who cares whether the pikeman standing next to you is Oeridian or Baklunish, if the enemy is a hobgoblin or a fiend in the service of Iuz?" Id. at 12.
Combining these sources, I argue that putative racial difference amongst humanity lacked centrality in structuring the human societies developed in the Flanaess after the Great Migrations. Fundamentally, race (and racism) on Oerth did not develop similarly to how it did on Earth because of the persistent threat posed by myriad non-humans.
I've tried to be succinct in this post but recognize it is long for this forum. If you feel moved to respond, I look forward to engaging discussion.
Also consider the passage in Artifact of Evil where Gygax notes the presence of a pure blood Flan in the councils of the Shield Lands and Furyondy.
Finally, do not confuse the difference between the racial mixing among humans, and the degree to which that negates various attitudes that are seen in the present day, with the concept of racial politics. Just because ordinary people don't give a hoot in their day to day lives, doesn't mean others don't. Or the effect to which such can be subverted by nationalism. So no, those people holding pikes don't care who has the lighter skin tone, or who has the Suel or Oerid surname, but the noble leading them considers it important for determining who will get the credit when the Royal Council meets next. And if not between races such as in Keoland, then between families within a race in former Aerdi lands.
People will always find a reason to divide everyone up.
However, if we use nationality as the dividing line, very little has been written as to how a Keolander is different from a Furyondian, how an Ahlissan is different from a Ratiker. The Flaneass has some 21 million humans, there needs to be some differences between them beyond political. Using nationality has not been supported in this regard by the printed word.
- makes better sense of the passing of the Common centuries; and
- permits DMs to specify greater detail about the differences salient to the adventure.
Regarding the points raised by Samwise, I don't dispute that canon repeatedly holds that nobles of several lands care greatly about the purity of their racial ancestry. However, I interpret the texts specification of Aerdy and Tenh to imply that the power elite of the many unnamed states do not ascribe such importance to ancestral race. Instead, I proffer that these nobles care much more about family lineages as these have developed within the (Common) history of the development of their lands.
To be concrete, in my Wild Coast campaign, the PCs adventure within the southwest (south of Badwall and west of Elredd). A number of petty nobles control parts of this region, and some of these families seem to have predominantly Oeridian or Suloise ancestry; however I indicate this idea to the players by way of the religion of a certain baron, or the dark sorcery of another. I also use the physical descriptions. I don't use the shorthand: "he looks Suel" or the even worse, "he looks Oeridian." These terms are not even heuristic if one attends carefully to Gygax's original descriptions (esp. the Oeridian one!).
Regarding Artifact of Evil, I still haven't read Gygax's novels. However, having "a pure blood Flan in the councils of the Shield Lands and Furyondy" seems very noteworthy given the distance between those states and the lands (once) controlled by the Rovers of the Barrens. Not having read the passage, I can only speculate. Perhaps the person's presence was also especially noteworthy because he(?) was not a landed noble (in the Aerdy tradition) but instead a tribal leader of the Arapahi? Indeed such a person would be noteworthy where found amongst the landed nobility of Old Ferrond.
I'm not disputing Samwise's final statement, "People will always find a reason to divide everyone up." Instead I'm sharing my thoughts about how DMs can heighten the detail and suggesting that their campaigns can benefit by not unquestioningly using the "human subraces" of the Flanaess.
Regarding the concept of racial politics, I think I need a clear definition for this discussion. Reading the phrase, I immediately start thinking about various S. Ct. Justices' opinions, which I suspect is not what Samwise means by the term.
Let's continue being specific too. Because Samwise is an expert at Keoland, we could continue to use that region. My stance is that LGH Keoland deals with "race" in an adequately sophisticated way. Similarly, Woesinger's description of Onnwal sounds compelling.
Finally, several posters have mentioned surnames or directly talked about language. These are great ways to further detail campaigns.
Take good care,
y
¡Feliz Año Nuevo!
As for appearance, certain traits will still be idenfiable. Here I think you are confusing the fact that most Westerners are utterly ignorant of the subtle differences in facial structure, hair quality, skin tone, and the like between various groups within a race, and just lump all people of a perceived skin tone or accent into one group. "They all look alike." But "they" most certainly do not, and the well traveled adventurer will note the differences.
As for a Flan in the Shield Lands or Furyondy, do not forget that the Flan once lived throughout those lands. They were conquered by the Suel then Oeridians, and reduced dramatically in status. One as a noble, or at least in noble councils, would be quite unusual.
Finally, LG Keoland deals with race in that manner because that is how I wrote it, specifically to reconcile all canon accounts of how race was regarded by the inhabitants of the Flanaess. It is very much intentional.
I think you're right that I am "confusing the fact that most Westerners are utterly ignorant of the subtle differences in facial structure, hair quality, skin tone, and the like between various groups within a race, and just lump all people of a perceived skin tone or accent into one group."
Seven years ago, after I graduated from college, moved to Los Angeles County, and began working (as a mental health counselor), I became sensitive to differences between African Americans (many of whom had migrated from Southern states) and the (seemingly many) Black immigrants from Nigeria, who worked as certified nurses' assistants in my "hospital."
Since then, as I've indicated in previous posts, I've studied race academically and applied my education to daily life. At times, I think I can discern patterns within racial-national groups, e.g. people either from Korea or of Korean ancestry.
While my own beliefs about race in the United States are less pertinent to this thread, the point I hope to make is that DMs (and players) may choose to represent "race" in their RPG campaigns in imaginative ways.
Ultimately (politically) I wish that people who RPG resist common-sense notions of race. Specifically, I hope that the "hobby of the imagination" may teach RPGers not to presume the naturalness of race (which in the United States is inextricably linked to a belief in White superiority as distinguished over and against Black / non-White inferiority).
Rather than referring directly and validly to physical reality, race is a socially constructed concept that human beings have collectively created, contested, and used to negotiate social relations and power.
Though as much as the Renee try to fit in if they wish too unless a rennee npc or pc for that matter has adopted the ways of the people of a land they wish to stay in they are treated as Rennee.
One of the three pc's from Veluna is actually a Rennee but has become so embroiled into Velunise society that no one can tell him apart from other Velunise. Now if he were to mention his true heritage he might be scrutinized by the same people he grew up amongst in Veluna.
Unfortunately the Ketish pc still dresses and behaves in the manner that people from Ket are associated with being. For that he has been the wrath of not only certain npc's but pc's as well. get out of here you filthy Ketite. This is more common in northwestern Veluna and southwestern Furyondy. While true Bisselites and people from the Grand March tend to dispise most ketish people's and can tell the difference between a Ketite and a Paynim tribesman.
It's sort of like Real estate, it's all about location ...location... locvation...
Exactly.
And that is how I treat it in the game.
On rare occasions, it has a direct, or at least semi-direct, connection to physical reality. But for the most part it is a political expression, and the physical aspects are incidental or coincidental.
As for the perceptions of RPGers, I would have to point you directly at Greyhawk.
The "white" people are the barbarians or Evil villains, the "olive" people are (or at least were) the rulers of the world, and the "black" people are the noble remnants of those who once owned all the lands.
How much further from conventional, real world, race portrayals could you get?
Originally posted by Samwise
As for the perceptions of RPGers, I would have to point you directly at Greyhawk.
The "white" people are the barbarians or Evil villains, the "olive" people are (or at least were) the rulers of the world, and the "black" people are the noble remnants of those who once owned all the lands.
How much further from conventional, real world, race portrayals could you get?
But the 'brown' people are still savage degenerates! Damn racist Greyhawk designers!
Seriously though, I think what Samwise is saying is that the "comparisons" folks try to make between Oerth's human races/cultures and Earth's human races/cultures are inherently flawed, and with that I agree 100%
I tell players new to Greyhawk when joining my game:
Ok, here's the deal: Suel look like Icelandic people, Baklunish look like Middle Eastern folk, Oeridians look like Mediterranean folk (Greek or Italian complexions, in my mind), Flan look like dark skinned Native Americans, and Olmans look like Native South Americans (Mayan, Aztec or Inca, whichever you prefer), but looks can be decieving, do not assume that the cultures of the Greyhawk peoples will mirror those of the real world folk they happen to look like
Heres the thing: They are a roleplaying mechanic. They are there to give Greyhawk a vibrant feel that the world of Oerth is evolving and changing. And the fact of it is, it works. It is much more interesting to say my human character is Suloise from the Lordship of the Isles which means something, then Maztican or Al-Qadimian or Karaturian and human from Toril. Those cultures seem very false to me because of they way they were transplanted from our own history in many ways.
To go further, the stout and tallfellow halflings are much more believable and interesting to me as a DM, they make sense. Ghost halflings and sheild dwarfs on the other hand seem like just a cheesy way of saying "Hey, this isn't Tolkein, FR is different, its uber-mysterious and neat." Sorry, it blows chunks, mainly because it came from feverous college nerds furiously scribbling into notebooks. Greyhawk evolved over time, it was rewritten and reimagined many times and played at great length before it was put onto typed page.
Anyway I didn't mean for this to be a anti-FR rant, just wanted to point out why the differences in Greyhawk's races make sense compared to what exists in FR.
Olves are divided into several major divisions, and each of these categories contains minor ones: high (sea); grey (valley -- and perhaps drow and snow?); sylvan (grugach). The cultural value olves place on purity means that cross-category pairings produce relatively few hybrid children. Combine this fact (or reject it!) with the longevity of olves to produce a reason to maintain the different kinds of olves over the past millennium, which we lack for humans in the Flanaess. (Note that the Olven Calendar counts over 5,000 years as compared to the less than 600 of the Common Years.)
Turning from olves to focus on the dwur, I admit that the distinction between mountain and hill dwarves seems less interesting than the differences amongst the olves. Dragonlance attempted to explain this distinction and then introduced a whole host of "dwarven subraces." The City of Greyhawk boxed set (and From the Ashes) specified three different holds, but the differences seem less to fall along mountain-hill distinctions and more to realize a notion that dwur holds tend toward isolation or are at least insular. I have little more to say about the dwur. In an earlier edition, mountain dwur gained better stats. Maybe some interesting differences could be made between the mountain dwur princes of the Lortmils and the hill dwur leader of the Principality of Ulek (but no longer in LGH!)?
Noniz are singular though I enjoy relating them to the uldra, who fled the Flanaess over a millennium ago and now exist in the arctic "continent" if anywhere...
When I played 1e, I enjoyed the distinctions amongst hobniz. However, in 2e I can't recall DMing a hobniz character. FR attempted to spin halflings off of DL's kender. Early issues of Dragon dealt well with the halfling Protectors (iirc the subclass's correct name).
In my present campaign, I've not introduced a single hobniz. (I think they'd mostly have a hard time surviving in the Wild Coast -- even prior to its fall.) While I've considered including some hairfeet commoners (as farmers, ostlers, or artisans), it hasn't felt quite right. If my PCs ever make it to the County of Ulek, however, I'd be ready to include hairfeet and tallfellows...
Hope I addressed your question.