Racial HD...the reason? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Racial HD...the reason?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
true_blue
Nov 24, 2003 6:33:45 Is there any reason why Draconians, Centaurs, and Ogres have racial HD and Minotaurs, Irda, and Half-Ogres do not?

I used to think that Large creatures had racial HD because of their size, but draconians are medium. I mentioned something like this on the Savage Species board too just because I didn't know the mechanics of how designers chose who had racial HD and who didn't.

Just was wonderin if anyone knew the answer.
#2
zombiegleemax
Nov 24, 2003 8:14:40 I find a big reason for racial HD is game balance. lets look at a race say the ogre.

Look at the ogres stat bonuses! An ogre (without racial HD) could be played as a lvl 3 charachter. Say he went barbarian so he would be a lvl 1 barbarian with +2 LA for being an ogre. This guy could deal out damage to the point where any other lvl 3 charachter would be nothing in compared.

Th racial HD places the Ogre charachter as a lvl 1 barbarian at charachter lvl 7 (2 for LA, 4 lvls for racial, and 1 for barbarian).

A lvl 3 charachter with a strength of 28 is ugly. Using a large sized two handed sword he could unleash 3d6 +13 damage without taking into account the power attack feat or magic weapons. Also this charachter at lvl 3 would have a maximum of 18 hps. Its tough to make an encounter challenging when anything worth while for a guy doing that damage can kill him in one hit. If the opponent isnt very healthy then they would be blasted away with one hit.

Anyway those are my thoguhts on the subject.
#3
The_White_Sorcerer
Nov 24, 2003 9:15:01 Maybe it's 'cause they're supposed to be tougher (as in more hp, higher BAB, better saves) than creatures without racial HD.
#4
zombiegleemax
Nov 24, 2003 11:32:42 I consider it a leftover from the monstermanual.
All non-players creature have racial hit dice, technically elves, halflings etc. have one racial hit dice. (at d8 because they are humaniod in nature)

Since PC have class levels instead of racial hit dice, they are removed, ie. the ansalonian minotaur.

with the savage species system, you could easily drop the centaur and the ogre's racial hit dice and their eqivalent hit dice.
It is true that it sometimes causes a little problem at low level, with high strengh and low hp. But as levels rise it becomes balanced.

Note:

personally I don't think that a racial hit dice is equavalent of a class level (only the dragon or outsider), but that is a totally different matter.
#5
cam_banks
Nov 24, 2003 13:01:25
Originally posted by Voiceman
I consider it a leftover from the monstermanual.
All non-players creature have racial hit dice, technically elves, halflings etc. have one racial hit dice. (at d8 because they are humaniod in nature)

While it's true humanoids have d8 hit dice, it's also true that most 1 HD humanoids in the Monster Manual are warriors (with d8 HD). It's no coincidence, given that the NPC warrior class was designed to be used for this sort of thing.

Cheers,
Cam
#6
true_blue
Nov 25, 2003 7:05:31 I was just wondering if there was any way that the designers chose which races had racial HD and which didn't. Or if they just went through and picked randomly. I don't really see a pattern.
#7
zombiegleemax
Nov 25, 2003 9:36:21 In the monster manual (monstrous manual?)
creatures have been distributed racial hit dice to reflect their power.

A dragon might have higher stats than a minotaur but if the minotaur had twice it's hit dice it would kick the dragon's ass.
There is the pattern, the distribution of power.
since monsters don't have class level, it was nessecary to give them racial hit dice. It would also be a pain in the ... for the DM if the monsters were just a basis race (or template) to which you had to add class levels.
What would the standard be, and all those numbers that had to be added...
#8
orodruin
Nov 29, 2003 21:16:54
Originally posted by True_Blue
I was just wondering if there was any way that the designers chose which races had racial HD and which didn't. Or if they just went through and picked randomly. I don't really see a pattern.

Most of the races you mentioned with racial hit dice are basically monsters found in the monster manual (other than draconians, which are DL specific) and so use the monster's hit dice in addition to class levels in determining hit points, BAB, etc. You may have been confused with the Minotaurs, which are actually different from the standard D&D minotaurs. The Krynnish minotaur has been a standard PC race since 1st ed, iirc, so they're essentially "weaker" (though more cultured) than the minotaurs of other game worlds. A normal minotaur in krynn would have 1 HD based on it's character class, just like any other regular PC race. The same goes for the Irda.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 true_blue Nov 24, 2003 6:33:45	Is there any reason why Draconians, Centaurs, and Ogres have racial HD and Minotaurs, Irda, and Half-Ogres do not? I used to think that Large creatures had racial HD because of their size, but draconians are medium. I mentioned something like this on the Savage Species board too just because I didn't know the mechanics of how designers chose who had racial HD and who didn't. Just was wonderin if anyone knew the answer.
#2 zombiegleemax Nov 24, 2003 8:14:40	I find a big reason for racial HD is game balance. lets look at a race say the ogre. Look at the ogres stat bonuses! An ogre (without racial HD) could be played as a lvl 3 charachter. Say he went barbarian so he would be a lvl 1 barbarian with +2 LA for being an ogre. This guy could deal out damage to the point where any other lvl 3 charachter would be nothing in compared. Th racial HD places the Ogre charachter as a lvl 1 barbarian at charachter lvl 7 (2 for LA, 4 lvls for racial, and 1 for barbarian). A lvl 3 charachter with a strength of 28 is ugly. Using a large sized two handed sword he could unleash 3d6 +13 damage without taking into account the power attack feat or magic weapons. Also this charachter at lvl 3 would have a maximum of 18 hps. Its tough to make an encounter challenging when anything worth while for a guy doing that damage can kill him in one hit. If the opponent isnt very healthy then they would be blasted away with one hit. Anyway those are my thoguhts on the subject.
#3 The_White_Sorcerer Nov 24, 2003 9:15:01	Maybe it's 'cause they're supposed to be tougher (as in more hp, higher BAB, better saves) than creatures without racial HD.
#4 zombiegleemax Nov 24, 2003 11:32:42	I consider it a leftover from the monstermanual. All non-players creature have racial hit dice, technically elves, halflings etc. have one racial hit dice. (at d8 because they are humaniod in nature) Since PC have class levels instead of racial hit dice, they are removed, ie. the ansalonian minotaur. with the savage species system, you could easily drop the centaur and the ogre's racial hit dice and their eqivalent hit dice. It is true that it sometimes causes a little problem at low level, with high strengh and low hp. But as levels rise it becomes balanced. Note: personally I don't think that a racial hit dice is equavalent of a class level (only the dragon or outsider), but that is a totally different matter.
#5 cam_banks Nov 24, 2003 13:01:25	Originally posted by Voiceman I consider it a leftover from the monstermanual. All non-players creature have racial hit dice, technically elves, halflings etc. have one racial hit dice. (at d8 because they are humaniod in nature) While it's true humanoids have d8 hit dice, it's also true that most 1 HD humanoids in the Monster Manual are warriors (with d8 HD). It's no coincidence, given that the NPC warrior class was designed to be used for this sort of thing. Cheers, Cam
#6 true_blue Nov 25, 2003 7:05:31	I was just wondering if there was any way that the designers chose which races had racial HD and which didn't. Or if they just went through and picked randomly. I don't really see a pattern.
#7 zombiegleemax Nov 25, 2003 9:36:21	In the monster manual (monstrous manual?) creatures have been distributed racial hit dice to reflect their power. A dragon might have higher stats than a minotaur but if the minotaur had twice it's hit dice it would kick the dragon's ass. There is the pattern, the distribution of power. since monsters don't have class level, it was nessecary to give them racial hit dice. It would also be a pain in the ... for the DM if the monsters were just a basis race (or template) to which you had to add class levels. What would the standard be, and all those numbers that had to be added...
#8 orodruin Nov 29, 2003 21:16:54	Originally posted by True_Blue I was just wondering if there was any way that the designers chose which races had racial HD and which didn't. Or if they just went through and picked randomly. I don't really see a pattern. Most of the races you mentioned with racial hit dice are basically monsters found in the monster manual (other than draconians, which are DL specific) and so use the monster's hit dice in addition to class levels in determining hit points, BAB, etc. You may have been confused with the Minotaurs, which are actually different from the standard D&D minotaurs. The Krynnish minotaur has been a standard PC race since 1st ed, iirc, so they're essentially "weaker" (though more cultured) than the minotaurs of other game worlds. A normal minotaur in krynn would have 1 HD based on it's character class, just like any other regular PC race. The same goes for the Irda.