Why are they here?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

zombiegleemax

Nov 24, 2003 11:06:28
A couple of recent threads and some discussion on the matter has provoked some thoughts on why certain monsters exist in the Flanaess.

There are at least a dozen articles that I can think of (on canonfire.com) that deal with the origins of a races existence, however all of them deal with the usual suspects, ie. elves, dwarves, gnomes, humans, halflings and orcs.

But why the Hell do gnolls exist?

For some, it's all very well to explain it away as being a fantasy world where things like this just happen and they don't need any further explanation, however as a DM and a creative person, I do feel a need to know. At the very least, it provides me with the basis to create hooks and plot ideas but more importantly, it gives a greater deal of depth to the world.

A basic example of what I mean is the entries in Monsters of Faerun which give a brief background for the monster and why it exists in Faerun. Although a little too basic, it's at least a start and something more than we have for most other monsters... or do we?

I've been hearing a bit about the sword wraiths lately and never realized that they are deeply rooted in Greyhawk history. Greyhawk dragons are another monster which, although less so, are still tied into the setting specifically. The animus is another good example of how a monster is incorporated into the setting and given a reason to exist beyond simply being a monster. The Death Knights article in the LGJ was a great way of making a history for the monster which gave it a lot more depth and meaning.

One of the things I've done in my Greyhawk, is cull half the Monster Manual out of existance, simply because I don't NEED a plethora of monsters that only exist to be killed by PC's. What I NEED is interesting, involving, plot-ridden beasts which have weaknesses which can be discovered through adventuring. A great example, but one which can't be used effectively because of its ubiquity, is the vampire. It's weaknesses are classic and should be discovered in game through the evolvement of the story.

And it's not like you can plunk just any monster into Greyhawk. I mean... you can, but depending on the monster, there are certain ramifications. For instance, my Arcana Unearthed thread where I've conceded that putting litorians (a lion-like race) in would be detrimental to the setting, because they REQUIRE a backstory. A mimic or a wyvern, however, doesn't.

I'd love to see backstories for other significant races and monsters. Something to really tie them in to the setting and give them that lick of flavour that they so sorely need. WHY do gnolls exist? Where did the Mind Flayers come from? Who created oozes? Who discovered how to become a lich? I don't need full-blown essays or diatribes on the evolutionary cycle in a magical environment, but a little bit of flavour would go a long way.
#2

OleOneEye

Nov 24, 2003 11:46:09
Note: nothin official here.
Three hundred years ago, an Ur-Flannae wizard entered into a pact with Yeenoghu. Together they created the gnoll race in the Raker Mountains, wherein they multiplied for 150 years. In the Turmoil Between the Crowns, House Naelex used gnoll mercenaries against House Rax in Bome March, Ratik, North Provincem, and the Adri. Decendents have thrived in those areas.
The corrupt paladin Myro saw the usefulness of gnolls, employing many as mercenaries. They were defeated by a joint force of Furyondy, Shield Lands, and Nyrond, but descendents were spread from the Rakers to Whyestil Lake.
Iggwilv brought gnolls to the Vesve and Yatil Mountains.
The Horned Society used gnolls. In 537 CY, with the crowning of a teenage Belvor IV, the Horned Society saw a weak king. Their hordes (which included gnolls) crossed the Veng, evaded major fortifications. The countryside was razed for three years before the superior Furyondy forces could expel the humanoids. Through this, the gnolls spread to the Gnarley.
They have spread to the Cairn Hills, and down the forests to Pomarj over the past several decades. Also, gnolls trickled down from the Yatils to the Barrier Peaks. They were extensively used by the cloud giants in their invation of Geoff. A handful were used to invade Sterich.
#3

zombiegleemax

Nov 24, 2003 12:22:46
Cool! Keep 'em coming!
#4

OleOneEye

Nov 24, 2003 12:35:58
If you are truly curious, I have might near something written about any monster. Just ask what you are interested in, and I will post it. Keep in mind, that I often forget where the official history diverges from my stuff, and what I have done to Greyhawk would be considered blasphymous by many folks.
#5

zombiegleemax

Nov 25, 2003 21:21:48
Originally posted by OleOneEye
If you are truly curious, I have might near something written about any monster. Just ask what you are interested in, and I will post it. Keep in mind, that I often forget where the official history diverges from my stuff, and what I have done to Greyhawk would be considered blasphymous by many folks.

Sounded pretty cool to me. Unfortunately, I can't think of a single monster because I would love to read it all, but I understand there is no time to write such a tome. If I am ever curious about a single monster, though, I will ask.
#6

OleOneEye

Nov 26, 2003 0:34:19
Unicorns:
Early elvin people greatly admired horses. Yet the lifespan of a horse was pitifully short, and many elves were saddened by the loss of many a great horse in their lifetime. An elvin maiden was so grieved by the death of her favorite horse, that she chose to make the ultimate sacrifice. She had the greatest steeds of all elfdome brought to her, along with the most virtuous of elvin maidens. She comitted suicide. The elf maidens affixed her bones to the center of the horses' heads, shaping them to a point. Thus were the first unicorns created.

The horns gave the elf's life essence to the unicorns, multiplying their lifespan many times. Elvinkind immediately became enamored of the majestic beast. The were given their own lands to roam, protected by the elves. Many desired one as a steed, but only maidens of the most pure heart could tame one. Once a unicorn bonded with an elf maiden, it would remain truly loyal until death. Over the centuries, unicorns came to roam all the elvin forests.

In the great migrations, Suel came to prize the horns. A great many were collected and became the main reason elves sided with Oeridians against the Suel. Further, priests of Hextor in the Kingdom of Aerdy began organizing hunting parties to garner the horn's magical powers. These greatly increased with the establishment of the Great Kingdom. By the time the Overking's hold on the Flaneass had ended, the unicorn population had been all decimated. It is very rare to find one outside of the protection of Celene.
#7

zombiegleemax

Nov 26, 2003 2:01:55
These are great so far ONE EYE, you should Submit them as articles to Canonfire, maybe alphabetically, or in groups of 10. It would be a wonderful resource. How many "monsters" have you done this for so far?
#8

zombiegleemax

Nov 26, 2003 13:05:56
Originally posted by rostoff
These are great so far ONE EYE, you should Submit them as articles to Canonfire, maybe alphabetically, or in groups of 10. It would be a wonderful resource. How many "monsters" have you done this for so far?

I agree. Not only do you establish the creation "myth" but you establish a history that involves the kingdoms of the setting. It does sound very professional. I think you should submit as well.
#9

OleOneEye

Nov 26, 2003 18:52:19
Umber Hulk:

Circa 150 CY, the grim mages Renevar and Allreynen were battling for control of South Province. Allreynen concluded that the path to victory lay in plundering the dwarven strongholds of the Hollow Highlands. With dark magics, he created the Umber Hulks. These viscious creatures began tunneling through the Hollow Highlands, controlled by Allreynen's apprentices and were backed up by elite squads of warriors. Great battles under the earth led to the destruction of many dwarven halls. Many of Allreynen's best apprentices and soldiers died in their endeavors, and soon the cost of this underground war was greater than the plunder taken. Renevar took advantage of the situation, securing his hold over Ahlissa and Sunndi. Forces were preparing to march upon Allreynen's palaces in the western peninsula. Allreynen withdrew his apprentices and soldiers for home defense.

Umber Hulks were virtually useless above ground and very difficult to transport across the plains of Idee. The race was left behind in the Highlands with no leaders or control. Following their stomachs, Umber Hulks continued the battle with dwarves. Within a century, dwarven culture in the hill lands was decimated, shifting to the Iron Hills and Glorioles. Umber Hulk tunnels riddles the Highlands as they searched further and further for food, eventually connecting with deep subterranean passages. They became a great terror in the underdark, expanding far beyond the Hollow Highlands. The beasts can be found as far away as the Crystalmists, Yatils, and Corusk Mountains. Since Umber Hulks are very susceptible to magical control, many mages have used the creatures, spreading them even further.

Vodyanoi:

Some 50 years ago, aboleth under the Nyr Dyv embarked upon a plan to rule the lake as an empire. They magically created the vodyanoi from umber hulks. Thus began a great undersea war which continues to this day. The aboleth continuously create more and more vodyanoi.
#10

samwise

Nov 26, 2003 19:09:10
Gnolls were created when Erythnul took the form of a savage quadruped to ravish Beltar for the fourth time after their previous encounters had produced trolls, ogres, and bugbears. Beltar brought forth the gnolls from that union, and added them to the faces of Erythnul. The gnolls were then placed on the savannahs for the Baklunish and Suel to discover and use.

Later, certain Evil arcane spellcasters of incredible power during the age following the fall of the great Scaly-Folk and Arachnid Empires would discover some of the forbidden tomes of lore of those beings that delved into the miscegenation of various species. They used those techniques to breed the first gnolls on Oerth, twisting hyenas and humans into an unnatural form. After the destruction of their great city-states during the great cataclysms that preceded the flight of the Suel and the formation of their Imperium, some of the gnolls escaped their breeding pens, and were later employed as mercenaries by the Suel and Baklunish during the later stages of their wars.

Other humanoids were produced in similar fashion in the ages before the great Suel and Baklunish Empires rose and fell.
#11

zombiegleemax

Nov 26, 2003 21:59:06
So there are two types of gnolls?

Actually, this could be a good way to describe the differences between gnolls and flinds. Flinds, obviously, would be the offspring of the gods union as they're superior.

Just a thought.
#12

OleOneEye

Nov 27, 2003 6:13:57
Troll:

The saddest day in the history of elfdome was the fall of the City of Summer Stars. Many elves survived the assaults of Acerak. Among them was a powerful mage who made her way north to the Troll Fens after loosing her entire family. The mage became corrupted with hate and determined to use equally fell magic against Acerak.

For decades, she conducted experiments upon indigenous ogres until finally creating her warrior race - trolls. Years more were spent building a vast army of trolls. Eventually, she led a great host to destroy Acerak's throne. Upon finally reaching Acerak's homelands, she found it sunken into swampland. For centuries, the mad elf led bands of trolls through the marshes searching for Acerak's tomb, but never found it. Upon her death, she became a banshee that has terrorized the Vast Swamp since, still searching for the tomb to extract her revenge.

In the mage's wake, trolls spread from the Troll Fens to the Vast Swamp. By the founding of the Kingdom of Aerdi, they were so plentiful that every peasant had to learn tricks to protect themselves from troll attack. Wise priests of Hieroneous and Hextor learned that elimination of the population was impossible, but rather, focused upon forcing them to migrate to distant lands. This was an amazingly successful strategy such that virtually no trolls live in the lands of Aerdi today. As the Aerdi conquered lands, trolls were pushed further abroad to inhabit the entire Flaneass, terrorizing all races from the Solnor to the Dramidj.

Scrag:

The Kingdom of Aerdi's campaign to move trolls had some unforseen consequences. A group of trolls living along the Artonsomay wouldn't take the bait to move. They took to continuously living under the river's waters. Over time, their descendents evolved into the scrags. Scrags have gone to populate the Nyr Dyv and all rivers/lakes branching from it.

During the Short War, a Furyondian knight came upon a unique manner of fighting the Keoish. Without the king's knowledge or consent, he had a tribe of scrags transported to the Sheldomar River. Reasoning that the creatures caused mayhem to Furyondians who know how to combat them, the Keoish river system would be crippled since they didn't know how to fight the beasts. River traffic was never crippled, but the scrags became a terrible nuissance over the years. Further, they have spread through the marches to the Javan River system.

The mad Overking Ivid IV tried the same method to punish his rebellious subjects along the Flanmi in the wake of the Greyhawk Wars. The Kingdom of Ahlissa has embarked upon a campaign to rid the river of these beasts. Commissions for battling scrags can be quite lucrative for those willing battle them.

Two-Headed:

Perhaps 100 years ago, a tribe of ettins befriended a tribe of trolls at the border of the Troll Fens with the Griffs. Horrendously, the two creatures can mate. Their issue is a two-headed troll. These are always sterile males. Surprisingly, ettins and trolls are not fond of their offspring, and most are chased from the tribal lands. They are usually found wandering the Griffs and Rakers looking for food. Most are eventually controlled by some humanoid tribe.
#13

samwise

Nov 27, 2003 11:06:41
Originally posted by Delglath
So there are two types of gnolls?

Actually, this could be a good way to describe the differences between gnolls and flinds. Flinds, obviously, would be the offspring of the gods union as they're superior.

Just a thought.

No, just two equal yet apparently conflicting stories.
It has to do with Mythic Time, a concept I discussed and elaborated on the Planescape list several years ago, mostly with Rasgon. Mythic Time is a situation wherein all myths and legends occur in a non-linear order, and potentially simultaneously. Try reading some common myth cycles and you will note a difficulty in placing the order of the various stories. Occassionally a minor clue will help place one before or after another, but most of them can effectively occur at any time. That is the concept of Mythic Time.
Thus, both of those origins are true. Gnolls came from both divine mating AND biomagical experimentation.
#14

zombiegleemax

Nov 28, 2003 11:42:56
i always thought gnolls existed as a gnome/troll crossbreeding. when people (humans) were not sure how the gnome viewed the world. much like many people wrote orcs as a subrace or abberation of elves.

so the knoll is a small round hill....the gnome its first inhabitant. along came the trolls. they were peaceful and made alliances they bred. their offspring were gnolls.

then came a change the gnolls didn't want to live on or in the hills so they moved to the plains around. they broke away bitterly.

this caused a rift between the parents. the trolls and gnomes broke.
#15

rumblebelly

Nov 28, 2003 13:45:07
In my campaign, Lycanthropes were first created by the Suel Imperium to be used as Super-Assassins against their Baklunish enemies. When the Baklunish learned of the existence of these nasty assassins, they stole the secret of human/animal hybridization from the Suel and started working on their own types of Lycanthropes (werejackals, werehyenas and such). What neither the Suel nor Bakluni mad-wizard-scientists counted on was what would happen if the Super Assassin did not complete its mission, i.e., if the victim of the assassination attempt actually survived the hit. Nor did they consider the consequences of their assassins breeding (or if they did, they deemed it of little import in the grand scheme of things), thus was born and borne the disease called Lycanthropy. Knowledge of, or at least clues to, the cure for lycanthropy is probably mouldering somewhere in the ruins of the Sea of Dust.

In that part of Scourge of the SlaveLords where werewolves inhabit the fortress in the mountains, my explanation was they were a gift to the Slave Lords from Agents of the Scarlet Brotherhood who were even then laying their plans for breeding the Uber Half-Orc (Turrosh Mak/Tharg Nelot) to lead the humanoids on a campaign of destruction. Also, the Berserking Shapechangers of the Frost, Ice and Snow barbarians are descendents of these super assassins, and indeed their lycanthropic super assassin blood was the reason these houses were chosen to pursue the fugatives of the Suel Imperium.
#16

rumblebelly

Nov 28, 2003 13:58:20
Did I mention: I love this thread! Please, please keep 'em coming. I'll be starting a new GH campaign in January and this is already giving me great ideas.
#17

zombiegleemax

Nov 28, 2003 18:19:48
Not to step on your toes, Rumblebelly, but I have an alternate lycanthrope story. Perhaps 'Mythic Time' can allow both to exist

My story is a corruption of my homebrew explanation where the 'gods' were merely immortal beings that evolved to be representative of their beliefs, ie. a warlike immortal would evolve armour plating, horns, etc. And the followers of these gods eventually changed to be like their patrons. However, when one of the gods died, the race would slowly die off too which is what happened to lycanthropes, however that left them stuck in human-like form, which was not their natural state. The moon goddess took pity on them and so when she was in full-view, granted them the ability to change back to their original, animal state. However, the god who killed the god of the lycanthropes was ****** off and so cursed them so that whomever they injured, would contract the disease of lycanthropy and become a ravenous, unnatural, killing machine which in turn made people hate and hunt down all lycanthropes.

Anyway, I sortof shoehorned that into the setting by having Ehlonna 'gift' certain animals who were curious about human and elven societies. She also had a tendancy to shift into animal form often in order to better understand their world and so she changed a couple of her friends into humans and gifted them with higher intelligence. Since this could potentially upset the balance of nature, she brokered a deal with Luna so that only in her fullest aspect, for one night a month, could the animals interact with humans.

Raxivort, who was jealous of Ehlonna's ability to call upon creatures of the wild to do her bidding (he saw this as a command when Ehlonna merely requested assistance) and had always wished for this power. Due to this, he watched her and attempted to copy her but only managed to command base creatures such as rats and bats. He also had an unhealthy obsession with her and lusted after her night and day. And so whilst watching her one night, he witnessed the process of creating a were creature and realized how powerful it would make him if he could call upon an army of rats and bats who could turn into humans at will. Unable to invoke the change himself, he called upon Incabulous to assist him and Incabulous demanded that part of the deal be that they be infected with a disease. Raxivort, being a canny fellow, agreed and thus made the disease one that would transform others into werecreatures, thus giving him a permanent means to create his army. This is also why wererats can spread their taint so easily as they were the first and most favoured of Raxivort.

The disease of lycanthropy spread to other, goodly, were creatures which is why they call it the 'curse' of lycanthropy, because Ehlonna and they had no intention of harming anyone else. Unfortunately, non-natural lycanthropes can rarely control themselves when changed into animal form and thus become mindless beasts who give in to their base instincts to kill and mate.
#18

OleOneEye

Nov 28, 2003 19:34:00
Hyena:

Onatal owned a trusted dog since a child, its name was Yeenoghu. Upon being crowned King of Kunda, he declared that his dog was no longer his equal and should bow to him pledging undying loyalty. Yeenoghu meerly laughed at the proposal, for he knew that Tuov custom held animal and master equal. Rage overcame king Onatal, curses spewing from his mouth. Yeenoghu was cursed to laugh forever, turning into the first hyena. His newly claimed power of kingship caused Onatal's curse to reverbrate across the lands. Thus were all domesticated dogs in the Kingdom of Kunda magically transformed into hyenas. They all loped off to the wilderness to be led by Yeenoghu. Tuov people have since considered it taboo to own a dog and ofted hunt them for sport.

Yeenoghu's hyenas terrorized the Kabrevo Plains. Onatal was never able to suppress them, and Tuov became fearful outside city walls. Yeenoghus' greatest success came when Onatal's daughter travelled to Kevot to visit her uncle. Yeenoghu ambushed the group, sinking his teeth into her tender neck. A guard sank his spear into Yeenoghu's side, and he died alongside the princess.Yeenoghu became a unique demon to later raise to princehood, forever searching for this princess in the afterworld. The hyenas' reign of terror over the Kabrevo died off, becoming a simple indigenous species. Tuov still consider a heyna's laugh to be a bad omen.

In the their many wars, the Olman noticed the Tuov fear of hyenas. The Olman took to raising hyenas, even magically creating the Hyenadon hybrid. They were brought to the Amedio, and were a trusted pet. However, wild hyenas cannot survive in the jungle, so with the Olman demise went their pets.

Some were traded with the Flannae living in the south-eastern Flaneass. The Flan stopped raising the difficult animal, which was never truly domesticated in the first place. Thus, hyenas became an indigenous, if somewhat rare, animal across the Aerdi plains. They have especially thrived upon the Ahlissan plain.
#19

zombiegleemax

Nov 28, 2003 19:48:54
Originally posted by OleOneEye
Yeenoghu became a unique demon to later raise to princehood, forever searching for this princess in the afterworld.

Perhaps Yeenoghu created the gnolls in order to help him find the princess?
#20

zombiegleemax

Nov 28, 2003 19:55:35
I've never actually read any of the manual of the planes books thoroughly, despite owning the 1st ed and 3rd ed books and being quite enamoured of the planes.

Anyway, in a discussion in GreyTalk I was told that someone, somewhere had it that fiends were the result of evil people who died and their corrupted souls went to the Abyss to become some form of demon or devil.

I thought this was rather neat. A simple explanation that would also work for angels and explain why there are so few angels and so many demons. It's much easier to be really evil than really good.

Are there any canon write-ups of this process? If not, I think I might write one up.
#21

samwise

Nov 28, 2003 21:37:29
"Not to step on your toes, Rumblebelly, but I have an alternate lycanthrope story. Perhaps 'Mythic Time' can allow both to exist "

Heh.
Mythic Time is extremely useful to help resolve conflicting background stories, as well as deal with various prophecies. It still needs to be used carefully, but it can make things a lot easier.
#22

rumblebelly

Nov 28, 2003 22:34:59
Originally posted by Samwise
"Not to step on your toes, Rumblebelly, but I have an alternate lycanthrope story. Perhaps 'Mythic Time' can allow both to exist "

Heh.
Mythic Time is extremely useful to help resolve conflicting background stories, as well as deal with various prophecies. It still needs to be used carefully, but it can make things a lot easier.

No worries, Delglath, even without "Mythic Time" this is a discussion forum after all, and should be used to share ideas. Anyway, I think I missed something with this "Mythic Time" business; I'll have to look into it. Can you direct me to the proper place?
#23

samwise

Nov 28, 2003 22:54:41
Originally posted by Rumblebelly
No worries, Delglath, even without "Mythic Time" this is a discussion forum after all, and should be used to share ideas. Anyway, I think I missed something with this "Mythic Time" business; I'll have to look into it. Can you direct me to the proper place?

Check up a few posts from me, I explain it there.
The full discussion would be lost somewhere in the PS mailing archives of several years ago. I'm not sure it's ever really been dealt with in depth in any scholarly work, though I couldn't say for sure. It would be nice to think it was an original idea I helped develop, but I doubt it is.
#24

zombiegleemax

Dec 02, 2003 11:37:31
okay you made me do a search for the game mechanics.

the Original Gnoll was a gnome/troll mix.

inspired by the writings of Lord Dunsany...

however, the designers weren't exactly sure what they looked like.

they made them hobgoblin in form. the King of the Gnolls and his bodyguards are the only ones fleshed out. basically as trolls without the regeneration power.



2edD&D 1977 J. Holmes version made them hyenalike. which also played out in the 1edADnD Monster Manual.
#25

OleOneEye

Dec 02, 2003 21:12:35
Griffon:

Olman would trade lions with ancient Flannae peoples. The Flannae stopped caring for the lions sometime after the fall of the Olman Citites. All lions died out when left in the wild but for one pride. The pride seemed directed by divine hand and wandered to the far north beyond the human ilk.

In the migrations, the Flan were chased to the plains of Tenh. In the deep mountains they discovered griffons, somehow descendent from that one lion tribe. The Flan learned to domesticate the beast and use it as a flying mount. When Tenh succumbed to the Great Kingdom, the griffon riders were the most outspoken opposition. They abandoned the plains to the deep mountain valleys.

Meanwhile, griffons expanded over the mountain range, where Suel barbarians delighted in hunting them, one of the Great Beasts of Llerg's Hunt.

When Tenh declared independence from the Overking, griffon riders swept upon the resisting Aerdi troops to great effect, proving decisive during the Red Road to Rift Canyon. Many nations were impressed by them. Tenh griffon riders became some of the most desired mercenaries in the Flaneass. The Duchy of Urnst and Furyondy were notable as employers. Griffons thus spread to the Abbor-Alz and Yatils. The fall of Tenh decimated the griffon rider ranks. Those remaining have either fled to neighboring nations or deep within the Griff mountains. Tenh griffon rider mercenaries are becoming a rare sight, and now command huge prices.