What about dragonspawn? Do you think they have the ability to breed with themselves and therefore, create more of their race. This would make 5 more "draconian" races that would populate Krynn.
Cheers,
Cam
I replied it would not be pink, as everyone knows that pink dragons breath bubbles. It would be one or the other, and probably red as they are more likely to have a dominant gene. However, if this child red dragon were to breed with a white dragon, there would be a chance that it would then be white.
But how many red dragons would breed with a white dragon?
I think I've answered your question.
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Dragonspawn are sterile, which is the main wrench in your plan, True Blue.
What makes you think they're steril!?! (aside from the fact that you're writing the Bestiary, and so this is probably how it's going to be).
But I don't see how that can be your conclusion...the dragonspawn are more human than draconian/dragon...you can even tell the males from the females very easily, because they keep their basic shape (they just get wings and a snout and colored skin) ;)
Well...there goes another cool 5th Age idea down the crapper.
Hey, give it 10 years and it will be like the 5th Age never even existed.
Originally posted by Brimstone
What makes you think they're steril!?! (aside from the fact that you're writing the Bestiary, and so this is probably how it's going to be).
Well, have you seen any evidence that they're having offspring? This has nothing to do with my working on the Bestiary, I should point out - I've been assuming they're not able to breed since the get-go.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Well, have you seen any evidence that they're having offspring? This has nothing to do with my working on the Bestiary, I should point out - I've been assuming they're not able to breed since the get-go.
Cheers,
Cam
How did you come about this assumption?
Originally posted by Dragonhelm
How did you come about this assumption?
I figured that since they were essentially just twisted creations of the Overlords, designed to be minions and not at all substantially well-put together, that they'd be incapable of breeding. There hadn't been any mention at all of them having offspring, what those offspring were like, whether they could have children by normal humans, etc.
If the Overlords want more, they can just create more. They're like a sort of as-needed instant resource. If they could breed, they'd get out of control pretty quickly and there's no guarantee the Overlord would retain that essential connection to them.
I could be wrong, though. Any proof that they're an independent race with all the bells and whistles?
Cheers,
Cam
My own thought is that evil cannot create. Evil can only corrupt, which is what the dragonspawn are.
Brim - Don't be so down, dude. Dragonspawn are being used in Key of Destiny.
Originally posted by Cam Banks
I could be wrong, though. Any proof that they're an independent race with all the bells and whistles?
Not that I'm aware of. I didn't think there was any definative proof either way.
We just made opposite assumptions.
I guess what surprised me was that I thought the assumption I made was an "obvious" one...but I I guess it wasn't.
Where's Andre? He could probably shed better light on the subject. (I don't know anyone who has researched dragonspawn more than him)
Originally posted by Brimstone
Where's Andre? He could probably shed better light on the subject. (I don't know anyone who has researched dragonspawn more than him)
Andre' has his work cut out for him with school.
I don't remember discussing the particulars about it with him, though. Andre' likes to look into things like whether the original soul is still in the dragonspawn, whether the draconian's soul is, etc etc. All very interesting topics.I like to see dragonspawn as being something of an affliction or curse, really. The abominations are even worse off. While the final result does the bidding of the Overlord, I imagine the torment of dealing with its twisted, mutated nature and muddled memories of who it once was make them especially tragic.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
I like to see dragonspawn as being something of an affliction or curse, really. The abominations are even worse off. While the final result does the bidding of the Overlord, I imagine the torment of dealing with its twisted, mutated nature and muddled memories of who it once was make them especially tragic.
Cheers,
Cam
Speaking of abominations, will there be stats for them and how to create them in the Bestiary? I happen to agree with you on the idea that spawn cannot reproduce. Think of it kinda like the Zerg in Starcraft. An assimilated human is unable to breed anymore, from what I understand. Maybe like the Borg in Star Trek.
Originally posted by Cam Banks
I like to see dragonspawn as being something of an affliction or curse, really. The abominations are even worse off.
Yeah, I kinda have the same view. (it's Dragonlance's answer to lycanthropy! ;))
Anyway...it's because of this that I would think they can still re-produce...and the "curse" or "affliction" is passed on to the child.
I kind of see it as, while the dragon that created them keeps the connection, there's pretty much nothing you can do about it. Much in the same way Dhamon is controlled by Malys...while Malys is specifically concentrating on him, he has no will of his own. Once she's off doing something else, the host body can try and fight off her will and regain their humanity/sanity for the time being. Once the dragon is dead...or severs the connection for good...then it sort of becomes a battle for the body between the human's soul (or elf, etc. in the case of abominations) and the draconian's soul. Who ever wins out...takes control of the body. Perhaps it's an ever continuing battle between the host soul and the draconian soul. (hmm...maybe I should stop watching Stargate SG-1)
Anyway...now what happens to the body depending on who has controll at the time being... I don't know. I would be inclined to believe that the transformation is permanent (without some sort of powerful Wizard's spell). The only chance for fighting the transformation is at the very beginning.
That's how I see it anyway. And I guess, since they are still very mcuh human, I don't see any reason why this curse should effect their reproduction.
Originally posted by Daedavias
Speaking of abominations, will there be stats for them and how to create them in the Bestiary?
Wish I could give you some hints as to the contents of the Bestiary, Daedavias! That's Jamie's job however - I just wrote stuff for it. He's already revealed that the fire dragons are in the book, which should make a lot of people happy (or not, depending). The rest is up to him.
Cheers,
Cam
Originally posted by Cam Banks
Wish I could give you some hints as to the contents of the Bestiary, Daedavias! That's Jamie's job however - I just wrote stuff for it. He's already revealed that the fire dragons are in the book, which should make a lot of people happy (or not, depending). The rest is up to him.
Cheers,
Cam
...but he doesn't come here that often anymore! Make him say stuff about the Bestiary!
So I would assume that the dragons with the higher CR have the dominant genes. Thus, if a red dragon and a gold dragon mate, you have a gold dragon. If a green dragon and a red dragon mate, you have a red dragon.
The same solution was done for the elven subspecies in the Forgotten Realms. When a moon elf and a sun elf mate, the child belongs to either one subspecies or the other.
Originally posted by ferratus
For breeding dragons, I follow Medelian genetics. See, he had green and yellow peas, and when he blended them together it the offspring were either green or yellow. It all has to do with dominant and recessive genes.
But not even the real world is as simple as that. Genetics is a whole mess of incomplete dominance, multiple genes controlling one trait, etc, etc, etc.
I do think that it would work like that, though. Pink, aquamarine, sky blue, and whatever other colors that would be yielded between the mixing of two separate breeds would just be too many things to deal with.
Originally posted by Cam Banks
I could be wrong, though. Any proof that they're an independent race with all the bells and whistles?
Cheers,
Cam
Considering Skie had to shove his face into the ground to have sand wedge into his eyeballs to produce the necessary tears to create them, I think its safe to say they can't breed. Not with all the trouble Skie went to to make each and every one.
Originally posted by Cam Banks
I could be wrong, though. Any proof that they're an independent race with all the bells and whistles?
Andre and I used to discuss spawn quite a bit, before Sov Press came on board to do DL 3E. Fun discussions, we should have them again some time. ;)
Anyways, one of us took the opportunity to type up the spawn info from Heroes of Steel, Book 2. I still have this in a doc file (shush Tal
).So, here's a quick quote:
"Like their human predecessors, spawn can reproduce. However, only magically created spawn have a mental link with their dragon creators; second-generation spawn lack that connection, even if they remain in the dragon’s service. A spawn’s immunity to dragonawe and other powers make it a valuable servant in any case."
So, without digging further into this, I'm guessing based on this and memory that the offspring of a spawn would also be dragonspawn. I can look some of this stuff up later if anybody needs it.
I guess I just relate them to draconians. Originally, draconians were sterile and couldn't breed. They were created and if you wanted more, you had to make more from dragon eggs. Thats why at the end of the War of the Lance, even evil dragons were worried that they would try with their eggs. Now in 3e, and in the newer novels, that has been taken back and now they have found females of their kind.
I dunno, I've never been a big fan of races being sterile. I know Spawn arent always considered a "race", but still. I wasn't a big fan of muls (half dwarves) being sterile in Dark Sun either. I think it'd be nice to have spawn who are kind of 5 more draconian races. Each dragon, metallic and chromatic, having a related draconian. *shrug* guess its not to be.
Originally posted by True_Blue
I guess I just relate them to draconians. Originally, draconians were sterile and couldn't breed. They were created and if you wanted more, you had to make more from dragon eggs. Thats why at the end of the War of the Lance, even evil dragons were worried that they would try with their eggs. Now in 3e, and in the newer novels, that has been taken back and now they have found females of their kind.
And yet, we've yet to see proof that draconians can actually breed.
Ok, they've got females. But hey, if spawn are sterile, I'd get a laugh at finding out that male draconians are sterile too.
Originally posted by silvanthalas
And yet, we've yet to see proof that draconians can actually breed.
Two full generations of new draconians have come into maturity, would you like any more proof?
Now, there certainly isn't any reason dragonspawn can't breed thus far, and one would have to think about the consequences. We already have an emerging society of dragon-men, the draconians. You all know how much I hate duplicate storylines. So dragonspawn settling down to found their own city probably isn't a good idea.
On the other hand, just because they can breed doesn't mean they have to do what the draconians are doing. After all, it isn't a big change to be able to make little dragonspawn when a few tears and a few scales can make hundreds of new dragonspawn anyway. You can't exactly make the argument that the ability to have babies means that the dragonspawn's population will burst out of control. It could burst out of control at any moment.
Then finally you have to consider the option of whether or not dragonspawn can breed with human women. Probably would make a good background feat, and would make a character eligible for the dragon disciple or dragon kith prestige class.
So maybe there are magically locked between the species, and therefor not the same species as humans nor as there brother/sister. Therefore they would produce sterile offspring with either race.?
Originally posted by Daedavias
Two full generations of new draconians have come into maturity, would you like any more proof?
Maybe I glossed over something, but last I recall, the draconians hadn't actually started breeding yet.
Originally posted by silvanthalas
Maybe I glossed over something, but last I recall, the draconians hadn't actually started breeding yet.
If you have the DLCS read the section on Teyr.
As i said before, I just usually don't like races being sterile. But guess thats a personal preference. Maybe Spawn will be detailed in the bestiary about breeding. It isn't hard to make more, but I don't like it when a race has to depend on another being to have more. I was glad when they changed draconians and made them have females now. Makes them a real race and I'm always open to new races as long as they arent silly or redundant.
Does anyone have any ideas about what would happen if a Sivak mated with an Bozak or anything? I would just assume it would be one or the other, since making half breeds for each combination seems a little much.
Originally posted by Daedavias
If you have the DLCS read the section on Teyr.
I understood this way:
the second that has grown up ín Teyr are the son and duaghters of Kang and his men, which are the first generation of draconians.
Thus the second generation have just grown up.
If draconians produre sterile offspring, we wouldn't know yet, because the offspring (who have just grown) haven't tried to have children yet.
btw.
I view draconians as being able to reproduce and dragonspawn as baring sterile offspring.
I don't like it when a race has to depend on another being to have more.
Well, you always have to rely upon the females of the species.
Isn't the draconian soceity going ot have a few problems when the old draconians start suffering from old age and dying? And when is that likely to happen? All the draconians up until now have been around since the War of the Lance, which is 60 years ago? And they were born already adult. When they all start dying of old age, won't their population be decimated? They had a dozen or so females, and even if all their newborn are more females, there just simply can't be enough by the time they all die.
Alternatively, they are going to have really really long lifespans, incredibly short childhoods, they're forced into the military for at least a year, and are generally evil (although perhaps not in Teyr). They'd then have to expand, and by extrapolation, have to take over the world.
Can we get some idea about their lifespans, first, though?
Or was that just a premilinary estimate?