Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Nov 25, 2003 15:58:08	Has anyone got the Warcraft RPG book yet? If so, what do you think of the Tinkering in that book? honestly, it's very close to how i'd see the Krynnish tinkering done, though there's a bit too high focus on steam-power and explosives. Anyone else thought of using this system for DL tinkering yet?
#2 Dragonhelm Nov 25, 2003 16:51:36	I have the book and remember seeing the tinker in there, but I don't recall off-hand how it works. I'll check it out later tonight, time permitting. Perhaps you could give a brief summary for those without the book.
#3 zombiegleemax Nov 25, 2003 18:25:23	well, first off, they have a new class, the Tinker. it's abilities revolve around bonus technology feats (most of said feats being advanced ability in building objects and using them, such as Build Firearm or Build Vehicle, with a couple "more-bang-for-your-buck" feats like Salvage), the ability to jury-rig technology in the field for cheap and speed, improved ranges with grenade-like items, increasing fire resistance (you get burnt enough, you learn to take it better), and the evasion tree (for avoiding your happy stuff from going boom). Being a tinker is almost essential to making anything more advanced than a swiss army knife (yes, there is a Goblin Army Knife⁚. it rocks!). As for the actual creation rules, it's broken into several parts: Afterwards, to use it, you have to make a Use Technological Device skill check, dc depending on the item. weapons use attack rolls as well. IF you want an item to do more than one thing, or upgrade it later, you go through this process again. However, the cost is divided by 3 if it's a secondary function (which is added to the cost of the base item), or by 2 if it's an upgrade (which is built and payed independently). that's the gist of it, really, and bout as brief as i could get it. it's pretty intensive and detailed, really.
#4 zombiegleemax Nov 26, 2003 14:00:40	*bumpo*
#5 crashy75 Dec 01, 2003 0:26:23	I have that book as well. I guess it is pretty good but not enough examples- tho the max dam/range ect per tech level is good. I'm waiting for the next book (or a dragonlance book) to really get that stuff going.
#6 zombiegleemax Dec 01, 2003 9:25:04	Alliance and Horde is suppose to have a bunch of examples, as well as some new rules to add onto it. not sure what exactly, but hey. :-)
#7 crashy75 Dec 01, 2003 16:27:35	Someone on another thread suggested a book called steam and sorcery (or something like that) by fantasy flight games... also on the Players handbook boards there is a guy working on an 'inventor' class... some good stuff but he gets into lasers at higher levels. here's the link if yer interested... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91678 although i don't like the sci-fi tech stuff there is some good stuff there. And hey if u like lasers well...
#8 cam_banks Dec 01, 2003 16:51:20	The main problem with borrowing any tinker/steampunk rules set from another d20 product is that unlike the gnomes, goblins, dwarves or of other worlds, Krynn's gnomes are cursed engineers. Most of the things they make are inefficient, don't work how they're supposed to, are much larger than they need to be, backfire constantly, and the gnome who builds it is never happy with leaving it alone. He has to continually tinker with it. The tinker idea was clearly borrowed from Dragonlance for other gnomes in D&D, such as those of Mystara and the Gond-worshipping gnomes of the Realms, but those gnomes don't have the same curse. From the point of view of a gnomish character, no gadget or widget or construct or device will ever work the way the gnome wants it to work. Fail to include this vital part of the setting, and you fail to grasp the core aspect of Krynnish gnomes. Cheers, Cam
#9 zombiegleemax Dec 01, 2003 17:50:08	well, cam, the easiest way to do this with the Warcraft tinkering rules is make a rule that you MUST have a malfunction rate, and make it a higher setting (say, 2-7 perhaps?)?
#10 Dragonhelm Dec 01, 2003 18:04:42	Another reason I like the gnome artificer is that there is a malfunction table.
#11 ferratus Dec 01, 2003 18:23:37	Remember though, that a gnome's tinkering ability must be somewhat useful, even if it isn't entirely reliable. Otherwise, the rest of the players are just going to be frustrated and annoyed by the gnome at the table, rather than being properly amused. In fact, I can easily see this scenerio playing out. The party is planning to storm the castle of Duke de Fathead. The wizard has planned everything out to the last detail, but the gnome suggests that it much easier if you allowed for his machine to break down the doors. The wizard would hiss "We don't need any gnomish tomfoolery messing everything up!" The Knight of Solamnia however would say "Now, now, don't discount him so quickly. Gnomish machines might never work as expected, but they almost always work as needed."
#12 zombiegleemax Dec 01, 2003 18:45:49	While the "normal" Krynnish gnome's machines never work as expected, you can't forget the mad gnomes, like Gnimsh (that's his name right? The one Tas met in the Abyss?) Sometimes their inventions do work as expected. I just wonder when someone is going to make official tinkering rules for Dragonlance.
#13 rosisha Dec 02, 2003 9:23:15	Also, there are now "Thinker Gnomes" What I use is the Sorcery and Steam book. And how I do it is that every invention a Tinker Gnome makes get a secret DM roll: 1d8 1 - 2 = Works as intended, but that doesn't mean that it did it fast enough now does it? 3 - 4 = Works as intended, but just once. Backup needs a backup. 5 - 6 = Does not work at all as intended, has random effect. 7 - 8 = Does not work at ALL like it was intended, yet by some miracle, actually got the job done. Invention is destroyed, roll on steam failure tables. The failure tables are in Sorcery and Steam, so I won't rewrite them here cause of copyright issues. But trust me, buying the book just for those tables is soooooo worth it cause of everything else you get. Now tinkering does require some DM intervention. What is a random effect, for example. And the gnomish character has to RP a little too.. "Ok. It worked... butnowthatIhaveseenitinactoinIbelieeIcanrecommendanumberofareasforsubstantialimprovement!" This would be added to the Artificier class from S&S. Rosisha