Do their magic weapons still work? How about scrolls, potions, and the like?
Can the wizards still cast spells? If so, do they go the route of a defiler?
How about clerics?
If they later leave Athas, do they regain their abilities and such?
Yes, I'm thinking of stuff for a possible campaign switch...
Wizards wouldn't be able to cast spells since they don't know how to draw energy to cast the spells. They could learn to be either a Defiler or a Preserver.
Clerics would be cut off from their deity and unable to cast spells.
If they leave Athas, they should regain any lost abilities.
Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
I agree take 2
I would also add that if magical items (like rod staffs and the like) which uses a "slot" every time the said magical item is used, it wouldn't be possible to restore more magic in the items since they weren't created the same way(as those on Athas or at least using the same magic.) Of course this could be optional but that's how it would work in my campaign.
Originally posted by Jihun-Nish
I would also add that if magical items (like rod staffs and the like) which uses a "slot" every time the said magical item is used, it wouldn't be possible to restore more magic in the items since they weren't created the same way(as those on Athas or at least using the same magic.)
I agree.
Wizards also do loose their ability to cast speels.
Clerics though... They do losoe the ability to cast all spells Above level 1.
They can cast level one spells and cast them at a cleric level 1. I remember reading a simular siduation in one of the actual DS capmaigns. But that is how I remeber it.
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Originally posted by AvatarDSO
I agree to a point... Yes magic items and scrolls and potions all work...
Wizards also do loose their ability to cast speels.
Clerics though... They do losoe the ability to cast all spells Above level 1.
They can cast level one spells and cast them at a cleric level 1. I remember reading a simular siduation in one of the actual DS capmaigns. But that is how I remeber it.
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Athas lacks the necessary spiritual connectors (it was described differently in a book) that enable dieties to grant spells, so a cleric would be unable to cast any spells.
Originally posted by Ryltar Swordsong
Athas lacks the necessary spiritual connectors (it was described differently in a book) that enable dieties to grant spells, so a cleric would be unable to cast any spells.
I imagine he's thinking of the rules in 2E that a cleric's 1st (and maybe 2-3) level spells weren't actually granted by the deity, but were instead powered by the cleric himself; in a case where he was cut off from divine access, he could still manage these low-level spells. I could see this concept working in 3E/3.5 with regard to 0 level spells, even if an offworlder was stranded on Athas, but I don't think I'd extend it to 1st level spells or higher.
Originally posted by Ryltar Swordsong
Athas lacks the necessary spiritual connectors (it was described differently in a book) that enable dieties to grant spells, so a cleric would be unable to cast any spells.
This is true BUT again clerics can cast spells from first level becosue they are not actually from their god. First level is granted due to their strong belief alone. Again this was in a DS campaign box set I just cant remember which one. Clerics can still cast as if they where Level 1 and only level 1 spells. Everything beyond that is granted from their patron god or element. But first level spells are mearly powered by the strength of the casters will and not by the deity or plane.
This is true....
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Originally posted by trisear
returning from Athas? that's impossible! for what I remember it's not possible to go back to any other plane, from Athas... it's like a "closed" plane... I don't remember anyone gotten into athas and come back to his plane of origin. the only one who I know travels through the planes (from Athas) is Dregoth the powerful undead sorcerer-king... as well as undead-dragon-king.
Dont forget some Githyanki "Probably miss-spelled that :P" did travel TO Athas in a box set campaign. How they did it I can not recall... its not totaly impossible to travel from Athas to other Planer worlds and back its just extreamly difficult and not something everyone can do. But however there is always a way.
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Originally posted by trisear
returning from Athas? that's impossible! for what I remember it's not possible to go back to any other plane, from Athas... it's like a "closed" plane... I don't remember anyone gotten into athas and come back to his plane of origin. the only one who I know travels through the planes (from Athas) is Dregoth the powerful undead sorcerer-king... as well as undead-dragon-king.
This depends entirely on what you're paying attention to.
Travel to/from Athas has traditionally been difficult, but not impossible.
Parts of the setting maintain that travel is impossible. On the other hand, Dregoth Ascending and Black Spine both deal with interplanar travel. D&P also delves into traveling to other planes ... and exactly how much of a barrier to that they Grey really is.
Planescape, on the other hand, had plenty of Doors into and out of Athas, and occasionally featured a very confused Athasian or three.
SpellJammer had a crystal sphere for Athas ... but it was so far off the normally traveled path that you were unlikely to ever stumble across it.
There are too many contradicitons in the caanon of the setting to dictate absolutes -- at least on certain issues. This happens to be one of them.
Then I come back and there's four.
::shakes his head:: These message boards just don't like.
That's how I got a Valkyrie into game (Someone really wanted to play one, and I felt it wouldn't screw the game balance, and in fact helped my story)
Also, as from Planescape there's a High end leader type person of the Cyphers that's a Kreen from Athas. She was chased out after a Sorceror King found her killing his templars, and instead of just killing her, put a psionic print that said "Leave or die" So she did. and ended up in Sigil and joined the Transcendant Order
As for priests. just a new angle here.
What about Priests of Grumbar, Akadi, Istishia, and Kossuth? The elemental gods from the inner planes? Would their spells still work? After all, we do have conduits to the inner planes on Athas.
I would also add that if magical items (like rod staffs and the like) which uses a "slot" every time the said magical item is used, it wouldn't be possible to restore more magic in the items since they weren't created the same way(as those on Athas or at least using the same magic.) Of course this could be optional but that's how it would work in my campaign.
Why is that, I don't understand?
I imagine he's thinking of the rules in 2E that a cleric's 1st (and maybe 2-3) level spells weren't actually granted by the deity, but were instead powered by the cleric himself
Where is it written?
thanks.
After all, we do have conduits to the inner planes on Athas.
Ahh, but the Athasian inner planes are quite unlike the Planescape ones. They're far more 'traveler' friendly and can appear as almost normal landscapes at times. Vistors to the plane of air can always fly, those who visit water, silt, etc, can always breath the element in question . . .
As Flip said, its depends on where you stand. Closed setting, open setting, joined to other settings, etc. It always seemed that innitially, Athas was intended to be entirely seperate from the other TSR settings. In time though, Planescape began incorporating and explaining the Athasian angle, same with Spelljammer. In response comes the Black Spine adventure, the revised box set, and Defilers and Preservers sourcebook. So, it boils down to mutiple versions of canon, the first is more than implied but not acually spelled out while the second condradicts the intention of the first, but spells itself out as clearly as it can.
You beat me to it! A quadruple post. Be nice to the Submit Reply button
Drats. I had a triple the other day. Now I gotta try for five . . . (pulls out large mallet) "Here Submit button" *whistle, whislte*
1)Dregoth can go in and out of Athas almost wishing it...
2)spelljammer and Sigil have a lot of gates to Athas
3)travelling from/to Athas it's not actually impossible, yet difficult...
what I meant, though, was...
1)Dregoth isn't a common person... he is a sorcerer-king, one of the most powerful one besides... and indeed I wrote about him...
2)spelljammer and Sigil have lots of gates to travel TO Athas... I don't remember any ways back...
3)travelling from/to Athas is not impossible, yet difficult... for a godlike creature like Dregoth... he is not a common person...
if a common person (even a high level cleric or wizard)wanted to travel FROM Athas, how would it be? difficult? I'd rather say IMPOSSIBLE...
besides... (most important thing)... where is the god of gates?
if a common person (even a high level cleric or wizard)wanted to travel FROM Athas, how would it be? difficult? I'd rather say IMPOSSIBLE...
You might wanna take a look at the write-up on the Ruvoka in Planescape MC3. Ruvoka are specifically stated as being high-level clerics or druids who leave Athas in order to undergo a transformation in the planes. Difficult or no, there do seem to be a number of "cracks in the wall" that the enterprising planeswalker might make use of...
Originally posted by danzig138
I imagine he's thinking of the rules in 2E that a cleric's 1st (and maybe 2-3) level spells weren't actually granted by the deity, but were instead powered by the cleric himself; in a case where he was cut off from divine access, he could still manage these low-level spells. I could see this concept working in 3E/3.5 with regard to 0 level spells, even if an offworlder was stranded on Athas, but I don't think I'd extend it to 1st level spells or higher.
Originally posted by AvatarDSO
This is true BUT again clerics can cast spells from first level becosue they are not actually from their god. First level is granted due to their strong belief alone. Again this was in a DS campaign box set I just cant remember which one. Clerics can still cast as if they where Level 1 and only level 1 spells. Everything beyond that is granted from their patron god or element. But first level spells are mearly powered by the strength of the casters will and not by the deity or plane.
This is true....
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Where is this rule in a book? I have never heard of it.
Initially, cleric spells of levels 1 and 2 were derived from a cleric's faith. He could cast spells of this level no matter where he was in relation to his god. Spells of levels 3-5 were granted by demigods or proxies of the greater powers. 6th level spells could be granted by lesser deities and it took a greater deity to grant 7th level spells. (There were no 8th or 9th level cleric spells, or intermediate deities back in those days).
Haven't seen anything like this in 3e, but I guess you could rule that orisons come from innate faith and other spells require an active link to the deity (or element) at hand.
Just some woozy thoughts... :D
Originally posted by flip
Planescape, on the other hand, had plenty of Doors into and out of Athas, and occasionally featured a very confused Athasian or three.
The PS Player´s Guide states that gates to and from Athas are rare in the extrem. There might be a few Athasians in PS, but most are there by accident.
Originally posted by flip
SpellJammer had a crystal sphere for Athas ... but it was so far off the normally traveled path that you were unlikely to ever stumble across it.
I am interested in the source. I know quite a few Spelljammer products but I never encountered one featuring an athasian crystal sphere.
Kilamar
Re moving outsider to Athas: I think the important question to ask about Priest and Mage magic is, how useless do you want some of your players to be? Sure, being true to the setting's important, but if you're planning any sort of extended stay, crippling spellcaster pcs is a bit rude.
Originally posted by Kamelion
This is an old, old 1e rule that (I think) ended up in 2e as well. It was initially in the old 1e Deities and Demigods book. (Don't remember seeing it in a DS release, but I've just spent my lunchtime drinking champagne, so don't quote me on that...)
Initially, cleric spells of levels 1 and 2 were derived from a cleric's faith. He could cast spells of this level no matter where he was in relation to his god. Spells of levels 3-5 were granted by demigods or proxies of the greater powers. 6th level spells could be granted by lesser deities and it took a greater deity to grant 7th level spells. (There were no 8th or 9th level cleric spells, or intermediate deities back in those days).
Haven't seen anything like this in 3e, but I guess you could rule that orisons come from innate faith and other spells require an active link to the deity (or element) at hand.
Just some woozy thoughts... :D
I played both 1e and 2e and I have never heard of this before. I can't find any mention of it in the 2e PHB, and my 1e PHB was stolen a couple years ago. So again I ask in what book is this rule mentioned?
So again I ask in what book is this rule mentioned?
1e Deities and Demigods. Maybe some other places too, but's that where I recall seeing it first. I'll get you a page number tonight (for both Melnibonean/Cthulhu and non-Melniboanean/Cthulhu versions of the book).
1e DMG, p 38.
1e D&DG, p9 (both versions, as it happens)
1e MotP, pp 20, 30 & 82.
2e SJ boxed set, Concordance of Arcane Space p17 (p22 has the Contact Home Power spell that lets you get around this limit)
2e PS boxed set, DM Guide to the Planes p 14 (not the same rule, but a development of it for the planes).
Haven't seen it anywhere in 3e, though, and can't recall any DS products that mentioned it. Anyone remember any?
The wizard character was a completely different story. The wizard was a extreamly high level wizard and some how in a experiment he was working on sent him to Athas... THere he laost all his abilities to channel his power... until he started doing some research with the knowledge he brought with him. He can now cast all his wizards spells as normal... there is one catch... he is sort of a Psionic Vampire as the card puts it. He sucks PSI from people and use it to cast his magic spells. How that is possible I dont know but I thought it was very interesting.
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Originally posted by trisear
if a common person (even a high level cleric or wizard)wanted to travel FROM Athas, how would it be? difficult? I'd rather say IMPOSSIBLE...
According to Defilers and Preservers, the best chance somebody has to break through the Grey and get to the Astral and the Outer Planes is about 25-30%. A persistent one can do it sooner or later. Of course there is always the danger of got lost in the Grey...
The way toward the Inner Planes is more easier, if I remember corrctly the chance to travel there successfully through the Grey is ~50%.
Originally posted by Kamelion
You might wanna take a look at the write-up on the Ruvoka in Planescape MC3. Ruvoka are specifically stated as being high-level clerics or druids who leave Athas in order to undergo a transformation in the planes. Difficult or no, there do seem to be a number of "cracks in the wall" that the enterprising planeswalker might make use of...
I don't have that one... that's something new for me... thanx a lot Kamelion... I'll go and check it... (one never stops learning... eheheh).
It happens that among the non-native I had a cleric and a wizard (thank gods none of then was a paladin), But it happened while they were 1st level.
So I did like this:
1) for the cleric, he first felt that he was powerless, then about three days after getting to DS he was contacted by some elemental power that felt some kinda interest in him, it made the pact and granted him powers again (the spheres changed too - it was 2nd Ed).
2) for the wizard, his case was not so hard. Since que was at 1st level, I just made him re-learn how to cast spells, wich was not that hard for him (since the arrival of the party in athas was expected by some powerful preservers, who were wiling to understand how the wizard could cast his spells...) Ah, the rest of the party come as a side effect...
3) races: well, for me this was the most interesting part. I assumed that the pristine tower spreaded its "radiation" all over Athas, no matter were. So, as the time went by, they felt some mutations on their bodies... In about one year or two on athas they would be totally athas-like.
(Imagine the despair of the dwarf... he cherished his own beard)