The Mage of the Vale - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

The Mage of the Vale

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kelanenprinceofswords
Nov 26, 2003 10:17:50 I'm running a campaign in which the Mage of the Vale has made himself an enemy of the party by wishing them into the lowest level of a nine level dungeon (of the usual archmage-made variety - strange tricks and traps, various monsters, and bizarre @#$% just to spook the players) for his amusement (think Most Exreme Elimination viewed via scrying).

Anyone got any info on the Mage?
#2
kelanenprinceofswords
Nov 26, 2003 11:14:26 I should write what I already know (or think I know) about the Black One:

1.) He's been the lord of the Vale for decades;
2.) He is served by valley elves and gnomes, and at night the Vale is crawling with summoned monsters;
3.) He has a drow seneschal named Tysiln San (I have old Greyhawk Adventures hardback);
4.) Drawmij is his enemy;
5.) He was formerly of the Great Kingdom (per G.A.);
6.) Might be a member of an organization called the Ring of Five along with Melf and Leomund (?);
7.) He might be dead, impersonated by an exiled necromancer from Bissell, and other stuff from LGG.

To be more specific, I was wondering if anyone remembers any details from the old Valley of the Mage module. Any info would be much appreciated.
#3
zombiegleemax
Nov 26, 2003 20:43:04 1) His name is Jaran Krimmeah.
2) He tried to overthrow Ivid V, but had far less military support than he thought and ended up being exiled.
3) His paranoia stems from his fear that Ivid would send assassins after him
4) He was a Wiz 19 the last time I saw any stats published for him (which was in early 2E, so I would tack on some levels).
5) He is obsessed with learning more and more magic, and is quite willing to take personal risks in order to gain new spells.
6) He plans to turn himself into a shade when he can no longer hold back the process of aging. He considers undeath to be too "low class" for a true wizard.

Otherwise, it's been years since I saw that module and can't remember any of it's contents well.
#4
erik_mona
Nov 26, 2003 22:22:33 That's funny. I just re-skimmed the "Valley of the Mage" adventure yesterday. It was very underwhelming. I'm led to believe the adventure is pretty rare, so I'd strongly suggest that no one break the bank trying to pick it up on eBay in hopes of squeezing some decent canon out of it.

Despite an appearance by Walgar of Bissel and the cameos of Jaran and Tylsin San from the Greyhawk Adventures book, it just doesn't "feel" like a Greyhawk product.

The "Valley of the Mage" adventure suggests that Jaran has departed the Flanaess (perhaps to the Plane of Shadow--I'm about 1,500 miles from my books right now), and has the PCs encounter a Bisselite necromancer named Nyeru (I'm sure the spelling is off, here) who poses as the Black One.

I know Fred never thought much of the Jaran character, so he kept him offstage, and suggested that Nyeru was still posing as the mage (in which case, he's about to learn what a 10+ level difference can mean in a fight with one of the archmages who would prefer to make the Vale their own domain. . .).

The reference to a valley elf king in Fred's write-up comes exclusively from the fact that when MiniFigs did a Greyhawk miniatures line in the early 1980s, a "Valley Elf King" was one of the blister packs available. No other mention (that I know of) of this character existed prior to the LGG.

The "High Lord of Elvendom at Hocholve" is a reference to the same NPC, mentioned in passing, in the boxed text leading into the "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" adventure. I think the "Liberation of Geoff" product puts Hocholve on the map officially. Interestingly, in the nomenclature of Gygax's Greyhawk, "Hocholve" would mean "high elf."

It seems likely that the oaken chest left to the grand duke of Geoff by the valley elf king contains the Cup and Talisman of Al'Akbar, which we learn on p. 43 of the LGG were "stolen by strange elves who were as tall as men. They escaped pursuit astride giant eagles, traveling above the Plains of the Paynims toward the distant Barrier Peaks."

There's really not a lot of offical continuity on the Mage of the Vale. He exists for you to use as a "mega NPC" in whichever manner strikes your fancy.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dungeon Magazine
#5
zombiegleemax
Nov 26, 2003 22:33:46
There's really not a lot of offical continuity on the Mage of the Vale. He exists for you to use as a "mega NPC" in whichever manner strikes your fancy.

I love this philosophy. I just love it. Can't emphasize that enough.

With a lot of other settings there's an annoying paradigm at work under which every question will eventually have a highly-detailed "official" answer published. Every gap will eventually be filled with something very specific (and sourcebook-filling). Eventually, any real room for a GM to customize and maneuver within the setting is pretty much filled. The drive to churn out those books completely overrides the notion of leaving room for the GM and players to work.

An individual GM can ignore this material if he wants, but if any of the players are sourcebook or novel junkies, they're going to know, and they're going to look poorly on the GM's work, if not refuse to participate in the campaign entirely if the GM doesn't relent and "do it right." Sounds ridiculous, but I've seen it happen multiple times myself and heard enough anecdotes to know I'm not alone in that.

And before anyone says as much, this isn't just Forgotten Realms bashing on my part. The Realms have this problem, but so do many other settings. Many of White Wolf's published settings fall into this trap.

I'm glad that the Greyhawk folks still know that less can be more (and that virtually nothing can sometimes be the most).
#6
kelanenprinceofswords
Nov 29, 2003 7:19:52 Very helpful, gentlemen, thank you. I agree that one of Greyhawk's greatest strengths is the fact that much is left for the DM to develop. Otherwise, running a D&D campaign becomes more of an excercise in research than in creativity.
Another great strength IMO is it's dark grittiness. I am reminded of the states of Europe during the High Middle Ages, with scheming nobles poisoning each other and all that good stuff. Greyhawk has a more authentic feel than some other settings, which seem to put more of a superhero comic's spin on fantasy adventure.
#7
zombiegleemax
Dec 06, 2003 3:40:43 Hmm, I disagree with Erik Mona for once. I think the Mage of the Vale is an excellent Greyhawk adventure. Not that my opinion counts in the face of Erik's, but it's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I've decided based on what I've read in GH source material (both current and old) that IMC the Mage of the Vale is already a shade in my CY 591 campaign. Nyeru and his necromancers successfully took control of the Vale, but had a much more difficult time discovering Jaran's secrets than they originally thought. Hence, Nyeru decided to keep the fact that Jaran was gone a secret and pose as the Mage himself. It provides him with a convenient cover until he discovers all Jaran was up to.

Other possibilities for your campaign are that Jaran is still alive, and possibly close to attaining eternal life as a shade, or that he has decided that the path of a shade is not as glorious as he once thought it to be, and now seeks another way to immortality. Since his years are slowly creeping up on him. He might even been seeking god-hood. Do note that no matter the source, Jaran does not wish to resort to lichdom. If you have hard core Greyhawkers for players then making Jaran a lich would be considered virtual blasphemy.

I always like making dynamic changes so I feel that as a shade, he serves his purpose well. You might also consider using the emancipated spawn prestige class from Savage Species for him.
#8
kelanenprinceofswords
Dec 06, 2003 20:59:30 Since the first post of this thread, the party has managed to escape the Ninefold Dungeons of the Mage (but not before the party's cleric had to raise every one of his companions from death, except for the bard, who had to be turned back into flesh after an encounter with a gorgon). They want revenge in a bad way, but realize that they have many levels to attain before they can mess with the Mage. In the mean time, they have been trying to stay out of the Mage's way, picking on the giants of Geoff instead.
#9
zombiegleemax
Dec 08, 2003 14:13:23 IMHO, I thought this was a pretty mediocre book. A lot more inspiring stuff could have been done with the Black One and the Valley Elves. IIRC, there are one or two decent bits that could be worth using, though.

This book is blighted by some pretty bad NPC and place names. There is a necromancer called Tracy in it. No offence to people called Tracy, but it's not an effective fantasy name.

If I ever used the Mage of the Vale, I'd probably follow the book and make him a shade. It's about time there was a good shade villain in the Flanaess - too bad that FR seem to have cornered the market in this type of villain.

I don't think that the Mage should be a lich or a would-be-god because there are several of these guys already running around in Greyhawk.
#10
robbastard
Dec 08, 2003 19:29:08 In the Gord books, the Mage of the Vale is Basilv, the Demiurge.
#11
Monteblanco
Dec 08, 2003 19:43:33
Originally posted by Robbastard
In the Gord books, the Mage of the Vale is Basilv, the Demiurge.

I heard this before but what it does exactly means? I got the impression that he was one of the tools used in the creation of Oerik.
#12
cwslyclgh
Dec 10, 2003 4:12:24
IMHO, I thought this was a pretty mediocre book.

as did I, IIRC they even gave the mage of the vale the wrong name (I seem to recall them constantly calling him Jason rather then Jaran).
#13
zombiegleemax
Dec 10, 2003 9:25:13
Originally posted by cwslyclgh
as did I, IIRC they even gave the mage of the vale the wrong name (I seem to recall them constantly calling him Jason rather then Jaran).

Greyhawk Adventures HC: Jaran Krimeeah
WG12 Valley of the Mage: Jason Krimeah

Grugach is right. Some of the names in WG12 just don't fit. Also, the name change to Jason, it seems, was done on purpose.
An evil "Jason" is a turnoff in this book, as is reading about Tracy Windstrider the Necromancer.

Regards,
Glorfinden
#14
zombiegleemax
Dec 10, 2003 17:41:09 There's another thread on the Mage going on now here:
http://pub175.ezboard.com/fpiedpiperpublishingfrm20.showMessage?topicID=11.topic
Scott
#15
kelanenprinceofswords
Dec 11, 2003 14:45:45 Very helpful link, ScottyG, as I have never heard of Basiliv the demiurge (haven't read the Gord novels). And it appears that the Great Grognard himself has posted info on the Mage on the thread you linked me to!
#16
zombiegleemax
Dec 11, 2003 15:51:12
Originally posted by KelanenPrinceofSwords
Very helpful link, ScottyG, as I have never heard of Basiliv the demiurge (haven't read the Gord novels). And it appears that the Great Grognard himself has posted info on the Mage on the thread you linked me to!

Glad to be of service. The Gord novels are a mixed bag. They start out good, but then go down hill. While I don't consider any of them 'canon' they're a good source to mine for interesting NPCs.
Scott

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kelanenprinceofswords Nov 26, 2003 10:17:50	I'm running a campaign in which the Mage of the Vale has made himself an enemy of the party by wishing them into the lowest level of a nine level dungeon (of the usual archmage-made variety - strange tricks and traps, various monsters, and bizarre @#$% just to spook the players) for his amusement (think Most Exreme Elimination viewed via scrying). Anyone got any info on the Mage?
#2 kelanenprinceofswords Nov 26, 2003 11:14:26	I should write what I already know (or think I know) about the Black One: 1.) He's been the lord of the Vale for decades; 2.) He is served by valley elves and gnomes, and at night the Vale is crawling with summoned monsters; 3.) He has a drow seneschal named Tysiln San (I have old Greyhawk Adventures hardback); 4.) Drawmij is his enemy; 5.) He was formerly of the Great Kingdom (per G.A.); 6.) Might be a member of an organization called the Ring of Five along with Melf and Leomund (?); 7.) He might be dead, impersonated by an exiled necromancer from Bissell, and other stuff from LGG. To be more specific, I was wondering if anyone remembers any details from the old Valley of the Mage module. Any info would be much appreciated.
#3 zombiegleemax Nov 26, 2003 20:43:04	1) His name is Jaran Krimmeah. 2) He tried to overthrow Ivid V, but had far less military support than he thought and ended up being exiled. 3) His paranoia stems from his fear that Ivid would send assassins after him 4) He was a Wiz 19 the last time I saw any stats published for him (which was in early 2E, so I would tack on some levels). 5) He is obsessed with learning more and more magic, and is quite willing to take personal risks in order to gain new spells. 6) He plans to turn himself into a shade when he can no longer hold back the process of aging. He considers undeath to be too "low class" for a true wizard. Otherwise, it's been years since I saw that module and can't remember any of it's contents well.
#4 erik_mona Nov 26, 2003 22:22:33	That's funny. I just re-skimmed the "Valley of the Mage" adventure yesterday. It was very underwhelming. I'm led to believe the adventure is pretty rare, so I'd strongly suggest that no one break the bank trying to pick it up on eBay in hopes of squeezing some decent canon out of it. Despite an appearance by Walgar of Bissel and the cameos of Jaran and Tylsin San from the Greyhawk Adventures book, it just doesn't "feel" like a Greyhawk product. The "Valley of the Mage" adventure suggests that Jaran has departed the Flanaess (perhaps to the Plane of Shadow--I'm about 1,500 miles from my books right now), and has the PCs encounter a Bisselite necromancer named Nyeru (I'm sure the spelling is off, here) who poses as the Black One. I know Fred never thought much of the Jaran character, so he kept him offstage, and suggested that Nyeru was still posing as the mage (in which case, he's about to learn what a 10+ level difference can mean in a fight with one of the archmages who would prefer to make the Vale their own domain. . .). The reference to a valley elf king in Fred's write-up comes exclusively from the fact that when MiniFigs did a Greyhawk miniatures line in the early 1980s, a "Valley Elf King" was one of the blister packs available. No other mention (that I know of) of this character existed prior to the LGG. The "High Lord of Elvendom at Hocholve" is a reference to the same NPC, mentioned in passing, in the boxed text leading into the "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" adventure. I think the "Liberation of Geoff" product puts Hocholve on the map officially. Interestingly, in the nomenclature of Gygax's Greyhawk, "Hocholve" would mean "high elf." It seems likely that the oaken chest left to the grand duke of Geoff by the valley elf king contains the Cup and Talisman of Al'Akbar, which we learn on p. 43 of the LGG were "stolen by strange elves who were as tall as men. They escaped pursuit astride giant eagles, traveling above the Plains of the Paynims toward the distant Barrier Peaks." There's really not a lot of offical continuity on the Mage of the Vale. He exists for you to use as a "mega NPC" in whichever manner strikes your fancy. --Erik Mona Editor-in-Chief Dungeon Magazine
#5 zombiegleemax Nov 26, 2003 22:33:46	There's really not a lot of offical continuity on the Mage of the Vale. He exists for you to use as a "mega NPC" in whichever manner strikes your fancy. I love this philosophy. I just love it. Can't emphasize that enough. With a lot of other settings there's an annoying paradigm at work under which every question will eventually have a highly-detailed "official" answer published. Every gap will eventually be filled with something very specific (and sourcebook-filling). Eventually, any real room for a GM to customize and maneuver within the setting is pretty much filled. The drive to churn out those books completely overrides the notion of leaving room for the GM and players to work. An individual GM can ignore this material if he wants, but if any of the players are sourcebook or novel junkies, they're going to know, and they're going to look poorly on the GM's work, if not refuse to participate in the campaign entirely if the GM doesn't relent and "do it right." Sounds ridiculous, but I've seen it happen multiple times myself and heard enough anecdotes to know I'm not alone in that. And before anyone says as much, this isn't just Forgotten Realms bashing on my part. The Realms have this problem, but so do many other settings. Many of White Wolf's published settings fall into this trap. I'm glad that the Greyhawk folks still know that less can be more (and that virtually nothing can sometimes be the most).
#6 kelanenprinceofswords Nov 29, 2003 7:19:52	Very helpful, gentlemen, thank you. I agree that one of Greyhawk's greatest strengths is the fact that much is left for the DM to develop. Otherwise, running a D&D campaign becomes more of an excercise in research than in creativity. Another great strength IMO is it's dark grittiness. I am reminded of the states of Europe during the High Middle Ages, with scheming nobles poisoning each other and all that good stuff. Greyhawk has a more authentic feel than some other settings, which seem to put more of a superhero comic's spin on fantasy adventure.
#7 zombiegleemax Dec 06, 2003 3:40:43	Hmm, I disagree with Erik Mona for once. I think the Mage of the Vale is an excellent Greyhawk adventure. Not that my opinion counts in the face of Erik's, but it's my story and I'm sticking to it. I've decided based on what I've read in GH source material (both current and old) that IMC the Mage of the Vale is already a shade in my CY 591 campaign. Nyeru and his necromancers successfully took control of the Vale, but had a much more difficult time discovering Jaran's secrets than they originally thought. Hence, Nyeru decided to keep the fact that Jaran was gone a secret and pose as the Mage himself. It provides him with a convenient cover until he discovers all Jaran was up to. Other possibilities for your campaign are that Jaran is still alive, and possibly close to attaining eternal life as a shade, or that he has decided that the path of a shade is not as glorious as he once thought it to be, and now seeks another way to immortality. Since his years are slowly creeping up on him. He might even been seeking god-hood. Do note that no matter the source, Jaran does not wish to resort to lichdom. If you have hard core Greyhawkers for players then making Jaran a lich would be considered virtual blasphemy. I always like making dynamic changes so I feel that as a shade, he serves his purpose well. You might also consider using the emancipated spawn prestige class from Savage Species for him.
#8 kelanenprinceofswords Dec 06, 2003 20:59:30	Since the first post of this thread, the party has managed to escape the Ninefold Dungeons of the Mage (but not before the party's cleric had to raise every one of his companions from death, except for the bard, who had to be turned back into flesh after an encounter with a gorgon). They want revenge in a bad way, but realize that they have many levels to attain before they can mess with the Mage. In the mean time, they have been trying to stay out of the Mage's way, picking on the giants of Geoff instead.
#9 zombiegleemax Dec 08, 2003 14:13:23	IMHO, I thought this was a pretty mediocre book. A lot more inspiring stuff could have been done with the Black One and the Valley Elves. IIRC, there are one or two decent bits that could be worth using, though. This book is blighted by some pretty bad NPC and place names. There is a necromancer called Tracy in it. No offence to people called Tracy, but it's not an effective fantasy name. If I ever used the Mage of the Vale, I'd probably follow the book and make him a shade. It's about time there was a good shade villain in the Flanaess - too bad that FR seem to have cornered the market in this type of villain. I don't think that the Mage should be a lich or a would-be-god because there are several of these guys already running around in Greyhawk.
#10 robbastard Dec 08, 2003 19:29:08	In the Gord books, the Mage of the Vale is Basilv, the Demiurge.
#11 Monteblanco Dec 08, 2003 19:43:33	Originally posted by Robbastard In the Gord books, the Mage of the Vale is Basilv, the Demiurge. I heard this before but what it does exactly means? I got the impression that he was one of the tools used in the creation of Oerik.
#12 cwslyclgh Dec 10, 2003 4:12:24	IMHO, I thought this was a pretty mediocre book. as did I, IIRC they even gave the mage of the vale the wrong name (I seem to recall them constantly calling him Jason rather then Jaran).
#13 zombiegleemax Dec 10, 2003 9:25:13	Originally posted by cwslyclgh as did I, IIRC they even gave the mage of the vale the wrong name (I seem to recall them constantly calling him Jason rather then Jaran). Greyhawk Adventures HC: Jaran Krimeeah WG12 Valley of the Mage: Jason Krimeah Grugach is right. Some of the names in WG12 just don't fit. Also, the name change to Jason, it seems, was done on purpose. An evil "Jason" is a turnoff in this book, as is reading about Tracy Windstrider the Necromancer. Regards, Glorfinden
#14 zombiegleemax Dec 10, 2003 17:41:09	There's another thread on the Mage going on now here: http://pub175.ezboard.com/fpiedpiperpublishingfrm20.showMessage?topicID=11.topic Scott
#15 kelanenprinceofswords Dec 11, 2003 14:45:45	Very helpful link, ScottyG, as I have never heard of Basiliv the demiurge (haven't read the Gord novels). And it appears that the Great Grognard himself has posted info on the Mage on the thread you linked me to!
#16 zombiegleemax Dec 11, 2003 15:51:12	Originally posted by KelanenPrinceofSwords Very helpful link, ScottyG, as I have never heard of Basiliv the demiurge (haven't read the Gord novels). And it appears that the Great Grognard himself has posted info on the Mage on the thread you linked me to! Glad to be of service. The Gord novels are a mixed bag. They start out good, but then go down hill. While I don't consider any of them 'canon' they're a good source to mine for interesting NPCs. Scott