SPOILERS
.
.
..
.
.
..
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
..
.
.
His explaination was that all of Ravenloft was a trap to catch Azalin so that, when he blew everything to hell in the Requim, they (a bunch of uber demons) would be able to flood into the material plane, using the demiplane as a stepping stone.
Yeah, its a good thing that isn't cannon.
SPOILERS>
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
After he breaks free and realizes that he's released the DP's, he travels back in time to the beginning of the book King of The Dead. He intends to prevent himself from screwing up the ritual that initially gained the Dark Powers attention. But, it turns out that his presence near his younger self is what CAUSED the messing up of the ritual. Then, the incorporeal Azalin gets sucked into a portal and ends up in the presence of Dark Powers that oppose the evil dark powers, and he is sure that, with their aid he can stop the "evil" DP's from succeeding in that time line.
...Though I am a fan of RL as a "beachhead" into reality as a theory!
-Eric Gorman
Over the years, I've come up with multiple explanations for what/who the dark powers are (a new one for each Ravenloft campaign i've run, and sometimes there have been multiple in effect in the same campaign).
My faves...
*Ravenloft as practice: The Demiplane is a "school project" for up-and-coming gods. Nine future Supreme Beings are trying their hand at creating a Reality. Like all young creators, they are mimicking the work of those who have gone before. Why nine? One for each alignment combo.
*Ravenloft as purgatory: The dark powers are interested in redeeming the dark lords, giving them a chance to turn away from evil. Everything in the setting is false, except for the dark lords and the PCs that get drawn into the world. PCs (and even native heroes) are there to show the dark lords what they would be if they would only change their ways.
*Ravenloft as gambling hall : God and Satan are wagering like they did with Job in the Old Testament. The entire demiplane is just one big test of people's character (or lack there of).
*Ravenloft as abandoned creation: Some being started creating a world but got distracted. Its half-finished creation is taking on a life of its own and slowly starting to run amok, at the expense of the rest of the multiverse.
Probably not ideas that are of any use to anyone but me, but there they are.
(And because it might come up... none of these really have any major impact on the approach I take when writing Ravenloft material, even if I think the first two fit perfectly with everythign that's appeared in published game material.)
Originally posted by Writer of Stuff
*Ravenloft as purgatory: The dark powers are interested in redeeming the dark lords, giving them a chance to turn away from evil. Everything in the setting is false, except for the dark lords and the PCs that get drawn into the world. PCs (and even native heroes) are there to show the dark lords what they would be if they would only change their ways.
More or less how I see things, with the exception that everybody is real. The Darklords are just the worst of the worst, all of them redeemable - which is why they're in Ravenloft and not just burning in Hell - but so vile that they've a long, long time before they're going anywhere, before they can finally learn their lessons and pass on (or have that one redeeming quality extinguished, and go tumbling down to some place of eternal darkness). Everybody else just happens to have a shorter stay.
Originally posted by Keg of Ale
I prefer to think people of Ravenloft are real beings. For that matter, I prefer Ezra, Hala and Lawgiver to be real gods, not mere mortal inventions.
Me too, but lately, I've started thinking that this might be just because I identify with the place. Like it would be really hard to convince you and me that this world was a fake.
That's why I've always contested the idea that Ezra is just a figment of the mists. In fact, I prefer to think of Ezra, Hala and the Lawgiver as a few of the real gods that actually operate within Ravenloft. All the others may be real, but they are shut of from the mists, and the DPs are providing their cleric's spells.
As for what the Dark Powers and Ravenloft really is, I must confess that I haven't really made up my mind. But personally, I like the Abandoned Creation idea and the Purgatory, or something akin to it, which we may call:
*The Ultimate Experiment: The Dark Powers are neither good, nor evil, but in fact cooly neutral. While Ravenloft may or may not have been real to start with, the Experiment has now advanced sufficiently that the beings that live within it now are in fact real. (Because if the other people weren't real, their tests wouldn't be real/measurable...)
~B4Real
Originally posted by B4Real
Lord of the Necropolis sounds pretty bad. What was Gene thinking when he wrote that?
~B4Real
He was probably thinking, "Hell, good, bad, I still get paid."
Originally posted by Drinnik Shoehorn
He was probably thinking, "Hell, good, bad, I still get paid."
:heehee
~B4Real
As for their overall objective in gathering this "collection" of Evil's many flavors ... well, my guess is that they're trying to prove a point. Who to, I'm not certain; but I think they're out to prove that Evil is more powerful than Good by actual *demonstration* -- i.e. "Look at all these horrible, irredeemable people! See the horrors they inflict on others, and even upon themselves, when we let them shape a realm that reflects their own hearts!" -- rather than (as most game settings have it) by merely having good guys and bad guys fight it out.
Originally posted by Rotipher
My personal theory is that the DPs are collecting darklords that represent different *kinds* of evil, rather than just any ol' BBEG they happen to stumble across. This explains why there's so little redundancy in the darklords' natures -- ONE lich, ONE psycho human warlord, multiple vampires but with EXTREMELY different backstories, etc -- and why the individuals they "elevate" to darklord status aren't necessarily the most powerful baddies the multiverse has to offer. If the DPs were looking for raw power, they wouldn't bother with wussy wererats as darklords, and if they weren't deliberately searching for a *variety* of evils, you'd think there'd be a whole BUNCH of people who killed their brothers over girls, etc.
As for their overall objective in gathering this "collection" of Evil's many flavors ... well, my guess is that they're trying to prove a point. Who to, I'm not certain; but I think they're out to prove that Evil is more powerful than Good by actual *demonstration* -- i.e. "Look at all these horrible, irredeemable people! See the horrors they inflict on others, and even upon themselves, when we let them shape a realm that reflects their own hearts!" -- rather than (as most game settings have it) by merely having good guys and bad guys fight it out.
I think I will go with the hell & torture thing.
~B4Real
Originally posted by Drinnik Shoehorn
He was probably thinking, "Hell, good, bad, I still get paid."
Actually, I happen to know that he was writing the best book he knew how, with the best of intentions. I also know that he was surprised when he learned that the RPG side of WotC was annoyed with the revelations in the book, as he told his story with the full approval and blessing of the editors in the Book Dept.
Originally posted by TricksterGod
More or less how I see things, with the exception that everybody is real. The Darklords are just the worst of the worst, all of them redeemable - which is why they're in Ravenloft and not just burning in Hell - but so vile that they've a long, long time before they're going anywhere, before they can finally learn their lessons and pass on (or have that one redeeming quality extinguished, and go tumbling down to some place of eternal darkness). Everybody else just happens to have a shorter stay.
Not a bad thought either. I should have been a tiny bit more specific, though.
The native people in the domains ARE real and they do exist... but only for as long as the darklord is present in the domain. When the darklord goes away--and assuming there's no one who just slides into the slot like Gabrielle Aderre did, for example--the people go away too. They return to the Mists from which they sprang.
For example, one of my most successful RL campaigns took place entirely within the domain of Sithicus (with the exception of a brief sidetrip to Krynn) ended with Soth redeeming himself and Sithicus and everyone native to it (including the PCs) dissolving. Until the very end, everyone in the domain was very real.
Now, immigrants to the domain (such as the original version of Mason [who was from Greyhawk and who had conned his way into running Har-Thelen]) probably found themselves wandering in the Mists.
Originally posted by Writer of Stuff
Actually, I happen to know that he was writing the best book he knew how, with the best of intentions. I also know that he was surprised when he learned that the RPG side of WotC was annoyed with the revelations in the book, as he told his story with the full approval and blessing of the editors in the Book Dept.
Fair enough, I retract my statement. My ire's just been raised by the quality of books for RL at the moment, so even my views on old books has become tainted. Except Shadowborn, I still hate it.
Originally posted by Drinnik Shoehorn
Except Shadowborn, I still hate it.
That was Bill Connors' novel right? I must have read it, as I try to read everything by people I'm friendly with.. but I remember absolutely nothing about it, so, as least to me, it must have not been all that offensive/enjoyable.
Sort of like most TSR novels I've read... they've disposable entertainment.