Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 marcus_antonius Nov 28, 2003 10:14:40	I have always been a big fan of Ps:Torment and favorite character was always Dak'kon. My Question is: how would you implement the rules for a karach blade for 3.5e? just a feat or a prestige class? please let me know what you think....... thanks..
#2 zombiegleemax Nov 28, 2003 10:44:36	Neither. Just a magic item that is attuned to its user (thus only usable by him) and gains in might as its wielder levels up - causing the *reshaping* effect. It is linked to the gith's innate powers.
#3 marcus_antonius Nov 28, 2003 10:55:10	Just a magic item ???? So you would say that EVERY Githzerai COULD go out and just form a Krach Blade.....at lvl 1 ? and how would you distribute the leveling up over the 20lvls ?.... thanks...
#4 psionicpally_dup Nov 28, 2003 12:18:49	Karach Blade, I found this at PS3e.com. It's not 3.5, but I'm sure it is easily convertible.
#5 zombiegleemax Nov 28, 2003 15:58:12	Originally posted by marcus_antonius Just a magic item ???? So you would say that EVERY Githzerai COULD go out and just form a Krach Blade.....at lvl 1 ? and how would you distribute the leveling up over the 20lvls ?.... Nope. Of course, these should be extremely rare and NOT be just available to anyone. Limit them to githzerai who have attained a high level of spiritual discipline (zerths, high level monks, psions). Why have a special feat for them? It doesn't seem right to me. After all, the karach is just a blade like every other blade; all it forces you to do is *focus* your will on it. Where that will comes from is an entirely different matter; you could base it on a race's innate powers or even a certain number of will-"dominated" class levels; e.g. monk.
#6 primemover003 Nov 29, 2003 6:03:39	It sounds like just a Githzeri version of the Githyanki's Silver Swords to me. What does it do? I haven't played PS:T before so lann me to this chant, will ya? I'd make it a EWP at least to use. The ps3e write up seems a little too niche to me (only Psionic creatures?).
#7 marcus_antonius Nov 29, 2003 9:40:09	first of all: thanks to you all for your ideas. @primemover003: well, the ps3e write up feels a little buggy for me too. Only Psionics and Githzerai is okay for be but: Weapon FINESSE ? What if decided to make a karach-greatsword ? (after all it depends on what I can FORM). I would make the feat look something like this: "Karach-Blade" Prequisites: Weapon Proficiency(Weapon to be shaped), Race: githzerai OR 3+Power points Benefit: You can shepe any Bladed Weapon out of a material called "Karach". This is a strange form of metal only found on the plane Limbo. Special: A Karach-Blade only holds its current form if it is within 10feet of its wielder/creator. It can not be destroyed normally. If sundered the wielder can make a chaos-shaping check DC15 to see if he can hold the weapons form. If he fails that check he may try again next round. To change the type of weapon (ex: dagger to longsword) he may make a chaos-shaping check DC15. .........any comments ? oh, yes, one more question: do you think that there should be a prestige Class for "Zerth-Warriors" or are they just multiclass-characters....and if so: which classes ?. *g* thanks for listening (reading) (* edited from Concentration to "Chaos-Shaping" found on www.ps3e.com)
#8 primemover003 Nov 29, 2003 10:54:03	Actually the Chaos shaping skill isn't needed. Classes have too few skill points to have an extra skill to invest in. I'm also not really keen on a feat needed to shape the Chaos stuff of Limbo. However either a feat or a PrC need to be used to describe the most powerful of the Githzeri Anarchs. Anyone should be able to control some of the chaos stuff without anything more than a untrained concentration check. 2E allowed anyone of chaotic alignment to have a slim chance of being a natural anarch. That's what a feat can used for, perhaps as a prereq for the Anarchs Guild PrC (should someone make it of course). Now without a better explaination of the Karach Blade I can't comment too much. It's obviously shapable to any blade, but if that's the case a competent wielder could switch between forms as a MEA or even a Free action. But limiting it to classes that have no real proficiency in swords is counter productive. Zerths are multiclass Githzeri IIRC, so MC combos of fighter, rogue and "casters" like psions or sorcerers (or the PsyWar) would be ideal for using such a blade. But a non-githzeri should be able to use this weapon with a EWP, unless it's enchanted with a githzeri only type enhancement.
#9 marcus_antonius Nov 29, 2003 13:54:44	the problem with the karach blade is: It is basically nothing else but a soup of chaos matter.... which is brought into form by will only I,ve consulted my MotP and it seems as if you'd need a certain Wisdom Score to shape Limbo......... IMHO the Karach Blade needs to be an extra feat to make sure not everyone runs around with one..... I mean they can't be destroyed by normal means after all.... thats a HUGE advantage..... I really think there should be a feat required to have one. I mean even Power Attack is one.....and its basically just hitting harder for less accuracy.... I also thought of something like changing the "material": first: the karach blade is considered to be made of steel, then silver, then adamantine.... what if I change the requirement for the blade to: Wis 13+, Weapon Proficiency (Weapon to be shaped) any comments ?
#10 factol_rhys_dup Nov 29, 2003 17:19:59	Hmm. Let's see. A special warrior caste in githzerai society. Sounds like a Prestige Class to me. Maybe PS3E will do one. They could be fighter/spellcasters but get special attacks that apply with their karach blades.
#11 incenjucar Nov 30, 2003 0:31:19	...Just treat it as an Ancestral Weapon that melts if someone else uses it...
#12 zombiegleemax Nov 30, 2003 0:43:19	Originally posted by marcus_antonius IMHO the Karach Blade needs to be an extra feat to make sure not everyone runs around with one..... I mean they can't be destroyed by normal means after all.... thats a HUGE advantage..... I really think there should be a feat required to have one. I mean even Power Attack is one.....and its basically just hitting harder for less accuracy.... Well, you could require them to take a background feat that would make them an anarch. That might make anarchs a bit too common, though, so you could require them to get some kind of special training instead, a feat similar to the chaos shaping proficiency from 2e. Originally posted by Factol Rhys Hmm. Let's see. A special warrior caste in githzerai society. Sounds like a Prestige Class to me. Maybe PS3E will do one. They could be fighter/spellcasters but get special attacks that apply with their karach blades. Or they might be psionic, since 3e seems to emphasize that. Either way, I'm a bit curious as to the nature of these special attacks they'd get. Would it be the sword be getting more powerful, or the wielder?
#13 zombiegleemax Nov 30, 2003 5:08:14	These are the original stats from PS:T: http://www.planescape.de/english/tips/schleifer/karach_blade.htm Disregard the morale thingy.
#14 marcus_antonius Nov 30, 2003 5:24:30	@Incenjucar: I really like the idea of treating in like the ancestral weapon of the samurai from OA. But isnt this a bit much for a feat ? (although ancestral weapon seems to replace the 1st lvl feat of the fighter) @overtrick: a background feat ? (sorry never heard of that. the only thing that comes close to this, and that i know, are regionl feats from FR) it also seems to me that beeing an anarch with only one feat is..... a bit extreme... I will ask if Ps3e can help me.......I really hope they can...thanks to all... *edited: does anyone know an e-mail of ps3e ?
#15 zombiegleemax Nov 30, 2003 6:46:57	I can't get the link provided to open up so I can see the stats for a karach blade, but I can tell you that Dragon magazine #289 had rules for creating a leveled weapon. Basically, the weapon's power grows as the wielder devotes xp to it AND advances in level. This is the next evolution of the samurai's ancestral weapon -- only someone who has fed xp into the sword can activate its powers at the appropriate level. Based on what everyone has said in this thread, a leveled weapon design sounds like the way to go.
#16 zombiegleemax Nov 30, 2003 14:12:27	@Incenjucar: I really like the idea of treating in like the ancestral weapon of the samurai from OA. But isnt this a bit much for a feat ? (although ancestral weapon seems to replace the 1st lvl feat of the fighter) The BoED has a general feat for ancestral weapon that any character can take, along with rules for making it more powerful. Basically, it's just like the Samurai OA one: It's got a limit on the effective +'s it can have at your level, and a gp limit. You sacrifice gold and/or valuable items to awaken whatever properties in it you want, provided you are high enough level and have the cash. @overtrick: a background feat ? (sorry never heard of that. the only thing that comes close to this, and that i know, are regionl feats from FR) it also seems to me that beeing an anarch with only one feat is..... a bit extreme... I assume this is like the ancestral feats from OA. They're feats you can only take at level 1, during character creation. They represent karmic links, natural abilities, and other things that are appropriate for a feat but that someone couldn't just learn. Dragon magazine #289 had rules for creating a leveled weapon. Basically, the weapon's power grows as the wielder devotes xp to it AND advances in level. This is the next evolution of the samurai's ancestral weapon -- only someone who has fed xp into the sword can activate its powers at the appropriate level. Doesn't that kinda gyp the owner in XP? For the most part, everyone in a party gets about the same amount of xp, on average, now this guy has to dump a bunch of it into his primary magic weapon? I suppose it's fine if it doesn't cost more than a mage or cleric would typically spend on creating magic items.
#17 zombiegleemax Nov 30, 2003 18:10:59	As far as I remember (and please correct me if I'm wrong!) the only reason the practical incarnation of the Nameless One saved Dakkon from limbo was because he was the last known wielder of a Karach blade. With that in mind its probably a good idea to have a well thought out reason why your Gith would have such a blade. I think a nice way of implementing it might be making a prestige class for the Zerth. Maybe one designed for fighters that adds some spellcasting ability or designed for spellcasters and adds better fighting capability (perhaps the spells gained would be related to the Zerth's faith in the teachings of Zerthimon like they were in Torment). In addition to this as your Gith gains levels in the prestige class his sword increases in ability, perhaps adding extra spell slots, increasing in damage or even at higher levels adding the wisdom modifier to damage like a monk. Just a few ideas!
#18 incenjucar Dec 01, 2003 4:28:54	1) The Ancestral Weapon feat is your best bet; maybe make it a psionic weapon though. 2) Dakkon wasn't unique, but he was in a position to be controlled. 3) The weapon abilities were tied to the -weilder-. They were unique to each one; the metal just gives them something to apply their will to. 4) Innate Anarch ability is a feat at 1st level, logically, but being a full Anarch is a PrC, no doubt.
#19 marcus_antonius Dec 01, 2003 7:13:50	hmmm, i think I'll take the Ancestral Weapon Feat of the Samurai from OA complete with the progression. and additional to the level requirement for overall weapon enhacement i will add the following: your WIS bonus hast to be at least the "+" of the weapon and at least half of the effective "+" example: a wielder with wisdom 12 (bonus = +1) may have a +1 flaming weapon while a wielder with 20 WIS (bonus = +5) may have a +5 vorpal weapon (all at the appropriate levels per the table in OA of course) does that sound reasonable ? and what about the requirements ? thanks
#20 zombiegleemax Dec 02, 2003 1:25:05	I'm only mentioning this because a friend and myself were talking about this exact thing yesterday. We thought basically 1. Your charicter must be an anarch: This gained either through RP or perhaps a feat. 2. To create the Blade, you must make a Will save (or concentration check) the check dictates exactly how powerful your blade could be at any given time. Maintaining the blade is a Concentration check every hour or so unless the total bonus is at or below your wisdom mod, in which case you do not need to strain to maintain it. In a tramatic or difficult situation (to be dictated by the DM in my opinion but my friend wanted to include whenever you are frightened) you must make a will save (again, with th DM desideing the modifiers) or the blade loses shape, droping one rank/two points you failed the save by. You can make another concentration check to reform the blade after the situation has been resolved (or after 8 hours rest and meditation) Concentration check chart: 1-5: No Plus, no Bonus, no enchantments 5-10: +1 , no bonus, no enchantments 10-15: +2, no bonus, +1 worth of enchantment (flaming, icy, etc.) 15-20: +3, +1 to your spellcasting stat (Wis,Cha, or Int) in reguards to bonus spells, +2 in reguards to enchantment 20-25: +4, +2 to bonus spells, +3 enchant 25-30: +5, +3 to bonus spells, +4 enchant etc... we thought that this mimiced the riseing levels of the blade, as well as the bonus spells he got, and it's tendancy to alter itself along with his mental state.
#21 ripvanwormer Jun 02, 2004 2:19:27	Karach is raw chaos forged into a shapeshifting metal by an anarch. It remains a metal no matter who picks it up, or how far away a chaos-shaper is. It just doesn't remain in the same shape or density. Wielding it as a weapon would require an exotic weapon feat, at the very least. Probably both exotic weapon feat and a shape chaos proficiency. Dak'kon's blade improved as he gained in level. This is probably both a quality of the metal and a quality of the wielder. Making it a prestige class seems a little pricy, though - what if a karach wielder had to sacrifice experience points to upgrade his weapon? Like others have suggested above, and I just edited my post to acknowledge. A karach wielder should be able to add his wisdom bonus to his attack and damage rolls. Anarch should be a feat, but the advanced anarchs who shape entire cities should be modeled with a prestige class. Advanced anarchs should be able to shape chaos in more precise and powerful ways. It would be reasonable to give an Advanced Anarch a free, automatically upgrading karach weapon as part of her class abilities.